Peter Verdone Design

[dpcompt]

Thanks for the reply. I think for many reasons, I would have to pass. This bar seems like an April Fool's joke.

[pvd]

...everything we've known about bicycles...

We? We? Who are you including in that group?

[davids]

We? We? Who are you including in that group?

The whole world, except you:

"Nobody understands, blank looks were all I got... I was forced to do it myself…again. I hate having to rescue the roadies but they aren’t capable of actually designing bikes."

[pvd]

The whole world, except you

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[David Tollefson]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

So you're basically admitting you know nothing about bicycles...

[deano]

If I liked popcorn I would be popping some right now.

[Bewheels]

How about some photos/video of someone riding this in order to see the position(s) of a rider.

[mzilliox]

The bike i own with the longest wheelbase is a turd. Long wheelbases make bikes turdy. yeah, ive read the linked thread. i still dont get it without riding it, and then id probably hate it

[mjbabcock]

I think I'll go talk to the Jerk first...or Garro, or Winter Cycles, or Chapman Cycles...well, just about anybody else.

My innovative idea is to mount a hi-rise stem backwards so it points back at me. While I'm at it, I think I'll rotate my drop bars 180 degrees so that they point forwards. Then I will put flashlights in the bar ends. Damn, I'm full of good ideas.

[sk_tle]

You realise you guys all sounds pretty much like flat-earth believers ? Good for you if you were in a majority to feel right for centuries. I'm not saying Peter's proposal is the right tool for the job, I have seriously no idea and I'm pretty content of my current gravel bike, but I would have at least to try it before judging.

Working in the IT field, I'm quite accustomed to witness resistance to change and how bad it affects evolution, innovation and the user experience as a whole. People keep using broken by design operating systems and softwares, use really crappy processes, work around oddities and errors instead of choosing better tools just because it is what they learnt to use years ago.

Without any tinkerers and innovators in the industry you would still be riding penny-farthing with that kind of mindset.

[ericpmoss]

These comments are just pile-ons. Jeez. What if the thing rides great?

[GrantM]

The bike i own with the longest wheelbase is a turd. Long wheelbases make bikes turdy. yeah, ive read the linked thread. i still dont get it without riding it, and then id probably hate it

I'd like to ride it before commenting.

Mountain Bike geo has changed to a new paradigm, it's not so much that the wheelbase is longer, it's the front center
gets you there a different way.

There are people experimenting, i don't think PVD is the only one doing this, as i can see about 20 prototype frames
in our office that look very similar. There are a lot of bike engineers doing this.

-g

[GrantM]

This bar seems like an April Fool's joke.

I looks weird now, but it's just engineering.
If the design solves a problem, it gets adopted and looks normal in no time.

-g

[lumpy]

I think the bike and the bar are interesting - He's working out a new approach, and I'm happy to read about it.

[davids]

You realise you guys all sounds pretty much like flat-earth believers ? Good for you if you were in a majority to feel right for centuries. I'm not saying Peter's proposal is the right tool for the job, I have seriously no idea and I'm pretty content of my current gravel bike, but I would have at least to try it before judging.

Working in the IT field, I'm quite accustomed to witness resistance to change and how bad it affects evolution, innovation and the user experience as a whole. People keep using broken by design operating systems and softwares, use really crappy processes, work around oddities and errors instead of choosing better tools just because it is what they learnt to use years ago.

Without any tinkerers and innovators in the industry you would still be riding penny-farthing with that kind of mindset.

It's not his ideas. It's his presentation.

I've never found any success winning others to my point of view with the opening statement that everyone but me is an idiot.

But hey - according to PVD, since I am part of the group consisting of everyone in the world but him, I'm an idiot. So, y'know, maybe I'm wrong.

Of course, according to PVD you're part of the same group as me!

[j44ke]

If it is truly different and it does work better then he needs a really good patent attorney adept at finding the patentable nugget that prevents Specialized et al from making one.

[andrew flowers]

I'd like to ride it before commenting.

Mountain Bike geo has changed to a new paradigm, it's not so much that the wheelbase is longer, it's the front center
gets you there a different way.

There are people experimenting, i don't think PVD is the only one doing this, as i can see about 20 prototype frames
in our office that look very similar. There are a lot of bike engineers doing this.

-g

yes and no

short stays feel bad descending really steep stuff on long front center bikes

in my experience (and having talked to others) extending the rear center a bit while also increasing the front center makes for a very lively ride

my naked's chainstays go from about 425-450mm, and at places like Mt Benson in Nanaimo (very steep big bike territory) lengthening the rear end helps keep the bike feeling balanced

Sam @ naked has found similar things, and is playing with some of his designs as a result

[andrew flowers]

my concern with these designs (and I am not a frame designer by any means) is that by keeping the rear end so tight and the front so shoved out you are going to be experiencing varying grip while seated cornering due to weight imbalances. My MTB corners great, but it is not really designed to be cornered with the seat up. Gravel bikes are, and I wonder if the weight you apply seated can stay well balanced through choppy corners

I'd love to try it

[GrantM]

yes and no

short stays feel bad descending really steep stuff on long front center bikes

That's why the mountain bike seat tube angle has been changed, modern geo bikes are steeper.
It's all interconnected, where the wheels are, and where you sit.

On a gravel bike, a dropper post (with no offset) effectively moves the saddle forward 2.5 degrees, (1 inch)
so the rear end may look short, but you're not sitting that far back.

-g

[andrew flowers]

That's why the mountain bike seat tube angle has been changed, modern geo bikes are steeper.
It's all interconnected, where the wheels are, and where you sit.

On a gravel bike, a dropper post (with no offset) effectively moves the saddle forward 2.5 degrees, (1 inch)
so the rear end may look short, but you're not sitting that far back.

-g

Nah

Seat tube is for climbing

With the dropper down sta doesn’t matter. If you run super short stays and a long front end the bike is out of whack descending very steep terrain with the body position changes that dictates

You lean further forward going downhill on the new bikes, and the lengthened chain stays help keep you balanced in that new position. 420 stays and shorter were for the frames of yesteryear