Peter Verdone Design

[Mark Walberg]

a quick perusal of his blog indicates that it isn't much different from his posts here: overly wrought prose that manages to still not say much of anything substantial, an inability to consider that opinions other than his own can still be valid, and hand-wavy nonsense being asserted as "science" or "design work."

Sounds a bit like Robspierre, although he did say a few substantial things.

[claritycycler]

Peter wants to promote something, even it's just his attention seeking tendencies. If he's interested in doing this, he can PM me and we'll start a dedicated thread that he can create and steer. For that, we'd need to reset his posting permissions for the Frame Forum.

Looks like that is done, wonder why PVD isn't taking advantage of the opportunity to discuss his viewpoints/ideas.

[halekai]

If it is truly different and it does work better then he needs a really good patent attorney adept at finding the patentable nugget that prevents Specialized et al from making one.

Too late, Its already out in the world. My experience with patents is that they usually make you poorer, much poorer. My gramps has 67 in tech and my dad has about 30 in medicine and chemistry.

The easiest thing in the world is to shell out capital and secure your IT. The REALLY hard part is to bring it to market and keep the vultures from robbing you. It consumes your entire life.

Better to be first in and secure brand recognition and SOPWAMTOS the hell out of it.

Jefferson was right. IT should be free and open.

Re- all the haters here. I find your behavior bazaar. All of your bikes that you ride past, present and future consist of tech that was ridiculed in the same fashion. This is a concept and a working prototype designed to solve a specific issue.

There is absolutely a way and a duty to criticize what you see that moves the game forward...and most get it.

I find this very sad as all you have done is pushed yet another highly experienced and accomplished builder away from this site.

[halekai]

As I've written at length on these topics on my site, let's reverse this. Can you answer this:

1. Why do people ride road bikes that are far too short for their size?
2. Why do road bikes have such long stems?
3. Why are "gravel bikes" just crit bikes with fat tires?
4. Why don't gravel bikes have bent seat tubes?
5. Why would someone use a 650b wheel when they could use a 700c wheel?

I do know the answers to these questions. I also know that most people dont.

Ill give it a go. Id be interested to see if our answers match up...keeping in mind that I do not know all of the assumptions etc.

1. People generally think that smaller frame = stronger/stiffer. Also a square design plus conventional stem puts most people outside their level of flexibility/ROM so they buy off the shelf solutions which generally means smaller frame.

2. To get a tight wheelbase and quick handling to avoid crashes and obstacles and elbows...and preserve the low aero position.

3. Tradition. But also depends on your definition of gravel. For some it means a flat dirt road (think Missouri), for others it means Fast descents down Mt. Umunum. Some people LOVE climbing and just want more air under them to piece together the descent, for others it is the opposite.

4. See #3 but I think that in some cases they should.

5. Some riders are caught in the "no mans land" of tire size and opt in to the higher volume solution but I know that is not what you meant. The only good answer I have off hand is BB/crown height and how that related to handlebar height, center of gravity and ride characteristics.

Again, I dont know all the assumptions. Id like to know how you or others answer these questions. FYI I am a 700c with rare exception kinda guy.

[ChristianWong]

Paging @pvd, would love to hear your thoughts on this!

The most mountain bikey gravel bike ever: Evil Bikes’ Chamois Hagar

[SlowPokePete]

^yup^

SPP

[David Tollefson]

Paging @pvd, would love to hear your thoughts on this!

The most mountain bikey gravel bike ever: Evil Bikes’ Chamois Hagar

It's not even red!

[happycampyer]

It's not even red!

And it needs a 55mm stem...

[Blue Jays]

This was a truly interesting read!
Thanks everyone for your posts.

[pvd]

Done

The devil went down to Georgia | Peter Verdone Designs

[the_ronin]

Looks like that is done, wonder why PVD isn't taking advantage of the opportunity to discuss his viewpoints/ideas.

Probably because he failed to do the math on handlebar that just broke in two, this lead to him being hospitalized , proof that ranting I do the math and not actually doing it can bit you in the ass.

[e-RICHIE]

Probably because he failed to do the math on handlebar that just broke in two, this lead to him being hospitalized , proof that ranting I do the math and not actually doing it can bit you in the ass.

Are you the Ronen mentioned in his texts?

[steve garro]

Probably because he failed to do the math on handlebar that just broke in two, this lead to him being hospitalized , proof that ranting I do the math and not actually doing it can bit you in the ass.

Damn.

Is he OK?

- Garro.

[claritycycler]

Damn.

Is he OK?

- Garro.

Badly broken/displaced clavicle, concussion that seems at least to be moderate or worse. I don't like his egocentric manner of the various forums he visits(however I do like some of his design ideas)but I truly wish him a speedy and complete recovery. Get well Peter.

Brian

[e-RICHIE]

Dunkirk | Peter Verdone Designs

[mzilliox]

Probably because he failed to do the math on handlebar that just broke in two, this lead to him being hospitalized , proof that ranting I do the math and not actually doing it can bit you in the ass.

jesus, i thought this was a joke, its not a joke. speedy recovery

[the_ronin]

Are you the Ronen mentioned in his texts?

Ronin
Ronen

See the difference?

[e-RICHIE]

Ronin
Ronen

See the difference?

One's a screen name. That's why I asked.

[Mark Kelly]

Probably because he failed to do the math on handlebar that just broke in two, this lead to him being hospitalized , proof that ranting I do the math and not actually doing it can bit you in the ass.

I am probably one of the few people on this forum that can and does do the maths* and I think your comment is rather unfair.

The part that broke looks to be a commercially produced filament wound tube, he would be relying on the manufacturer's data to determine strength etc. Unfortunately brittle fracture in carbon composite structures is not that straightforward, it follows a probability function (described by the Weibull Modulus) which means that even well designed structures will have a finite (but hopefully small) probability of brittle failure.

Accordingly, there is not enough evidence here to state the PVD didn't "do the math", it could well be that he did, accepted a small chance of failure and promply discovered that the bell curve has tails.

*English speaking countries use "maths" as the abbreviation for mathematics, the USA being the exception.

[megapope]

maybe a bit presumptuous to call the bar a proven design given that, technically speaking, a fairly large percentage of the ones in existence have failed in use. i assume his argument is that it's the carbon tubing supplier's fault. may well prove true. i'll be interested to see if he goes back and reviews the tubing used in his other bars of the same design after he heals up

it's in poor taste to kick the man while he's down. i doubt that many other framebuilders would experience similar criticism after a mechanical failure of one of their own bikes. misconduct on forums is not grounds for the withholding of sympathy after a crash