Trust and the news

[colker]

Former journo here... lotta people in that industry trying their darndest to be fair and professional (lot who are, well, not) but probably ineptitude or basic human error, too... but one part of the problem might also be the industry and the tech and the churn of how the industry's tried to keep up with the tech as others have pointed out re: social media. Let that horse run away!

I go with slower and slower news ... my only real engagement with content in the news department are two magazines - Harper's on the left and First Things on the right; both are dogmatic in their own ways, but in every issue, eventually, they come around to maybe one insight or another.

Slowness is becoming a thing ... there are people who have left the news industry and are banking on slower and slower media, so to speak, focusing on "writing of lasting value" as Robert Cottrell of The Browser put it, nothing that's designed to be thrown away. Cottrell would be an excellent source of insight in current media. I say insight because that's distinct from information! I, too, am betting on print and slower media prevailing (unless our culture truly completes its descent into madness). Since Guttenberg, content has gotten cheaper to produce and, incidentally, less valuable. Pendulum's gonna swing. Hopefully.

Good post.

[caleb]

I think a good litmus test for a news source is how they correct mistakes in a story, or if they even have a corrections policy.

The Best Corrections of 2019 - The New York Times

Corrections - News, Articles, Biography, Photos - WSJ.com

Because refusing to acknowledge or correct a mistake is a form of lying.

More basically, an organization that talks about events but doesn't employ reporters isn't much of a news organization, it's a commentary organization. A news organization puts boots on the ground to go and see for themselves.

I'd like to see a public ranking of news outlets by the percentage of their budgets spent on reporting, although as far as I know that information isn't widely available.

The cancer in media seems to be the percentage of stories passing as news in which nobody ever had to leave their desk.

[mzilliox]

More basically, an organization that talks about events but doesn't employ reporters isn't much of a news organization, it's a commentary organization. A news organization puts boots on the ground to go and see for themselves.

I'd like to see a public ranking of news outlets by the percentage of their budgets spent on reporting, although as far as I know that information isn't widely available.

The cancer in media seems to be the percentage of stories passing as news in which nobody ever had to leave their desk.

Yes, I think this is a good way of looking at things, especially in regards to TV news. It would be wonderful to be able to see the stats you mention, or find out who is generating the most source content per dollar, or something of that nature. Just one more slice, one more piece of information to lead to the pursuit of factual reporting.

Someone else mentioned podcasts, I love this format for learning about the topics of world import from real experts who love of their field of work. When you have a good host who asks exploratory questions, fascinating conversations can happen. I really like Rogan too. Others include Ezra Klein, Sam Harris, Steve Patterson, Malcolm Gladwell, Freakonomics, and a few more, just to get plenty of different points of view.

[Too Tall]

If you were not watching FOX news this afternoon, I was, you would miss Mike Wallace masterful evisceration of A. Dershowitz.

Yes yes yes to hearing many sources especially when the topic is controversial.

Has anyone ever lived in a small town for very long? Did you notice that all local news was told as it relates to local concerns? That is bias or propaganda, it really depends how you choose to deal with it.

Last time I was in Boise, ID (no offense ment to Boise) it seemed as if no National or International news was told without a follow of how these events affected Boise. Again, I dig Boise I'm just telling a story ;)

Do this dance in a international scale with massive news outlets in play and you have GOT to have your head screwed on straight or you'll simply end up regurgitating your favorite (biased) news source. We can do better yo.

#minisoapboxrant

[choke]

A lot of people chose to get their facts from facebook conspiracy theories from religious goups or left wing groups. Left or right it does not matter: it´s taking democracy down . One of the pillars of freeedom is anindependent press whose only compromise is reporting the facts.

Lack of facts in the press is nothing new. In 1807 Thomas Jefferson wrote the following in a letter to John Norvell:

To your request of my opinion of the manner in which a newspaper should be conducted so as to be most useful, I should answer ‘by restraining it to true facts & sound principles only.’ yet I fear such a paper would find few subscribers. it is a melancholy truth that a suppression of the press could not more compleatly deprive the nation of it’s benefits, than is done by it’s abandoned prostitution to falsehood. nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.

He writes quite a bit more, if you want to read the entire letter it is at From Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell, 11 June 187

One may not like the bias of the NYTimes but their facts are impeccable.

Two words: Jayson Blair

[choke]

Has anyone ever lived in a small town for very long? Did you notice that all local news was told as it relates to local concerns? That is bias or propaganda, it really depends how you choose to deal with it.

Last time I was in Boise, ID (no offense ment to Boise) it seemed as if no National or International news was told without a follow of how these events affected Boise. Again, I dig Boise I'm just telling a story ;)

Heh....as someone who has spent the vast majority of my life in small towns, I'd never refer to Boise as one. But I know, it's all about perspective....

[King Of Dirk]

I try to remember to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent every few years. I was overdue, thus grateful to this tread (and the OP) for reminding me.

I highly recommend that book. If you don't have time to read it, playing Dirty Laundry by Don Henley until you've got it memorized is almost as good.

Read/watch/listen to as many sources as you can, and for goodness' sake include several that piss you off. They all suck, but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

[Too Tall]

Leaning into Caleb's point. Have you (all) been following the demise of small and medium size newsprint? The trend is to attempt 501C3 status in order to survive.

Journalism is not dead, it's fighting for it's life.

[colker]

Lack of facts in the press is nothing new.

PLease: bring an example of intentional conceal of facts in major US newspapers. Make it unintentional, by mistake; please remind me when one the big 5 US newspapers concealed or twisted facts.

[colker]

Leaning into Caleb's point. Have you (all) been following the demise of small and medium size newsprint? The trend is to attempt 501C3 status in order to survive.

Journalism is not dead, it's fighting for it's life.

The day journalism dies you can kiss democracy goodbye.

[mzilliox]

I try to remember to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent every few years. I was overdue, thus grateful to this tread (and the OP) for reminding me.

I highly recommend that book. If you don't have time to read it, playing Dirty Laundry by Don Henley until you've got it memorized is almost as good.

Read/watch/listen to as many sources as you can, and for goodness' sake include several that piss you off. They all suck, but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Funny you mention that, i put in a request last week to my buddy to get my copy back. I heard a couple interviews with Chomsky recently and wanted to read it again.

[fastupslowdown]

I tend not to trust broadcast news. you get so much opinion and you often don't get the underlying document i'm much more comfortable with trusted print sources and insist on reading several. there are some good ones in my opinion, ny times, washington post, financial times, reuters, wall street journal to name a few. people throwing their hands up saying its all fake and then getting their news from facebook is the real problem in my opinion -mike g

[colker]

people throwing their hands up saying its all fake and then getting their news from facebook is the real problem in my opinion -mike g

They want tyrany and deserve tyrany.

[Drew]

people throwing their hands up saying its all fake and then getting their news from facebook is the real problem in my opinion -mike g

Can I get an AMEN???!!!

Facebook... destroying functional communities and families, one at a time.

[colker]

Can I get an AMEN???!!!

Facebook... destroying functional communities and families, one at a time.

I will extend to any and every business relying on apps: uber, air bnb etc.. It turns organized society into a wild west.

[Dallas Tex]

I will extend to any and every business relying on apps: uber, air bnb etc.. It turns organized society into a wild west.

Uber? AirBnB?

Like individuals helping other individuals? How does that negatively affect society?

[DJB]

Hi Tex- I was thinking about how papers, at the turn of the 20th century, were “owned” by one interest or another and really had no hesitation to report fiction as fact. I think we do much better today.

DJ

[deano]

The cancer in media seems to be the percentage of stories passing as news in which nobody ever had to leave their desk.

I think this is a great insight, and hopefully demonstrates my point above about writing of lasting value prevailing, even if in the meantime it calls it into question, now that I think about it, the one example I provided, which I know you weren't responding to, but I hope spells the renaissance of print.

People are hungry for good content. The figure I mentioned above, Robert Cottrell was a writer and editor at The Economist, a publication I respect a lot, even if its commitment to good writing and solid reporting are only matched by its ideological commitment to liberalism (I haven't read it in print for years, so I don't really know, and not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know, ahem, liberalism has not served everyone too well the past decade or two, lol). But yeah, now, he orchestrates a paid newsletter focusing only on the "writing of lasting value," category I cribbed from him. Not much of it is "news," rather it's the bootstrap reporting, it's insightful essays about language, philosophy, current affairs, etc., it's from obscure expert-written blogs, it's from other solid publications. And he doesn't just "curate" it, in his estimation, he's editing and marshaling a conversation. Which I find interesting and compelling, though I will have to reflect on whether editing and creating a conversation is sufficient to break out of the cancer you point out in media... as in, mustn't the buck stop somewhere? Someone had to write all the content he puts together. His letter is paid (I just get the freebie), but who pays the writers of the cool stuff he finds? Seems like that would suggest to me, like, hey, Robert, isn't it time you got your own masthead and started commissioning original pieces?

Anyway, so to your point, I wonder if as people wear of the throw-away stuff, perhaps we will see the papers of record prevail, the hyper local journalism covering stormwater runoff problems in your city and the local crime and courts, and gentrification in your neighborhoods, etc., like they're not going anywhere. It will be scrappy 24yos and poor, old salts doing the dirty work like always, but they'll be there. And the regional papers of record doing their thing will have to settle for local content after they finally reach the bottom of the private equity games they've been playing (McClatchy, and their ilk, and the private equity media companies have yet to turn from layoffs back to focusing on real quality, local content in terms of their business model, at least the last time I checked back in on the health of local, regional, and national news ....). So they will probably struggle, still get bought and sold, and suck until they reach rock bottom and not just rely on the wire and bland puffy content (these are midsize regional papers I'm talking about; the Lexington Herald-Leader, the Courier Journal, the Indy Star, etc.). The heavies will always be the heavies (NYT, WSJ, WaPo, L.A. Times, etc.). But then your Buzzfeeds and new, new media are on the ropes. We're already seeing more quality paid content cropping up, and a newer cottage industry of thoughtful, original writing stepping up to take the microphone from Buzzfeed as it babbles incoherently. So concerning Cottrell's newsletter, I don't think we're seeing the print renaissance flowering yet; he's editing from his armchair, but scouring from the four corners for the good stuff. I only hope his work leads him and people like him to take it further and go get those writers he finds valuable and brings them together under the auspices of fresh, original writing and sidestep the issue you raised, of boots on the ground, which is hand-in-glove with the quality of content.

[colker]

Uber? AirBnB?

Like individuals helping other individuals? How does that negatively affect society?

Pffft... Hotels and taxis help you better. They are professionals at what they do and mean jobs. Air bnb and uber are glamourized unemployment and huge bucks in the pockets of businness w/ zero responsability over those who work for them.

[sk_tle]

Pffft... Hotels and taxis help you better. They are professionals at what they do and mean jobs. Air bnb and uber are glamourized unemployment and huge bucks in the pockets of businness w/ zero responsability over those who work for them.

The problem are in the laws, and how much you want liberalism in your society, not about coming from an app.