Covid19

[Chik]

Let's hope the Chinese and the Russian vaccines work. If not for humanitarian reasons, then we still need to keep in mind how interconnected our economies are. We can't afford, amongst others, Russians and Chinese getting incapacitated en masse, in more ways than one.

[monadnocky]

Well, my 104 year old great aunt, who lost her mother to the 1918 epidemic (and who herself survived it as an infant, or so we think) just tested positive. I suspect that most in the nursing home in which she is a resident will test positive as well.
So within a week I've gone from not knowing anyone with it, to having acquaintances and friends with it, to having family with it.

Life comes at you fast, I guess.

[Too Tall]

Well, my 104 year old great aunt, who lost her mother to the 1918 epidemic (and who herself survived it as an infant, or so we think) just tested positive. I suspect that most in the nursing home in which she is a resident will test positive as well.
So within a week I've gone from not knowing anyone with it, to having acquaintances and friends with it, to having family with it.

Life comes at you fast, I guess.

Ugg. Hoping for the best.

[davids]

Well, my 104 year old great aunt, who lost her mother to the 1918 epidemic (and who herself survived it as an infant, or so we think) just tested positive. I suspect that most in the nursing home in which she is a resident will test positive as well.
So within a week I've gone from not knowing anyone with it, to having acquaintances and friends with it, to having family with it.

Life comes at you fast, I guess.

I'm so sorry to hear this. I wish her a full recovery.

[BBB]

Info here is that the Moderna vaccine only requires -20 ^oC, e.g. normal freezer temperature. Given that both it and the Pfizer vaccine are mRNA vaccines I'm not sure why the stated difference in storage temperature exists.

In other news my state of Victoria is down to zero known cases statewide so lockdowns, though brutal, can be effective.

For those not up on what's happening here Victoria is about the size of Massachusetts, we had a second wave here which at its peak in August hit about 8,000 cases. This was sparked by the use of undertrained subcontractors in the quarantine arrangements: like many western countries much of our economy runs on exploitative subcontracting and it bit us in the bum this time. The counter action was described as one of the world's strictest lockdowns but it seems to have had the desired effect.

So, Victoria has gone 28 days without any new cases and has no active cases on the books. Quite a turn around considering we were in the same boat as the UK in July (around 750 cases each) and now look at the mess they are in (granted it is a very rough comparison).

[Clean39T]

Before I go full Karen-mode on my local natural, organic grocer [EDIT: in writing, to management, kindly, but firmly, so not really Karenly in the colloquial sense..] - I'm curious what others are seeing out there for the use of masks (tight, cloth) vs. buffs (loose, porous) and/or shields at your local grocers?

For some reason the primary place I have to shop to get quality natural foods is allowing their staff and management to just wear shields. The checkout areas are tight and when you're trying to shop once a week or once every ten days, it takes 10+ minutes to check out. I have no idea why they think it is fine to wear a shield that effectively has them breathing all over my groceries and creating a potential covid cloud I have to stand in, and that the rest of their staff has to work in. It started with one or two people doing it, now the majority are. I know it can't be fun to be in a mask all day but the surge is on, our smallish town is under-resourced, and it seems ridiculous to not take reasonable steps to limit contact.

Apologies for missing posting this yesterday. Tried to hit the grocer during a slow time today and my @ss is chapped something fierce.

[Octave]

Before I go full Karen-mode on my local natural, organic grocer - I'm curious what others are seeing out there for the use of masks (tight, cloth) vs. buffs (loose, porous) and/or shields at your local grocers?

For some reason the primary place I have to shop to get quality natural foods is allowing their staff and management to just wear shields. The checkout areas are tight and when you're trying to shop once a week or once every ten days, it takes 10+ minutes to check out. I have no idea why they think it is fine to wear a shield that effectively has them breathing all over my groceries and creating a potential covid cloud I have to stand in, and that the rest of their staff has to work in. It started with one or two people doing it, now the majority are. I know it can't be fun to be in a mask all day but the surge is on, our smallish town is under-resourced, and it seems ridiculous to not take reasonable steps to limit contact.

Apologies for missing posting this yesterday. Tried to hit the grocer during a slow time today and my @ss is chapped something fierce.

Tricky spot. On the one hand, shame is not a good teacher so calling them out must be done with a constructive tilt and carefully, if at all. Plus, people doing something is better than feeling overwhelmed with these impossible demands (I mean, a cloth mask!?!?!) and giving up entirely. On the other hand, it is a business so speaking with management might be a better option. I don't know how populated your area is (are you in Bend proper or just nearby?), but out here I have stopped even thinking about calling anyone out - anyone who is knowingly flaunting mask guidance/law at this point is just waiting for a fight. You can see it in their eyes, looking around wishing someone would say something. An acquaintance of mine works at a bike shop up in Eugene and had a woman tell him how lucky he was that she didn't have her gun on her after he politely asked that she, in accordance with state law, wear a mask in his shop.. I walk with a pretty sizable knife on my hip (Winter, thanks Eric) but I don't carry a gun, and half the assholes I see sans mask have a gun rack in their truck just itching to be trained at some freedom-hater like myself... I've chosen which lumber yard I go to and who mills our chicken scratch based on who wears masks - vote with your dollar, if possible..

[Mark Kelly]

Part of the turnaround referenced above was banning the use of buffs and shields. Mask means fitted mask, worn over nose and mouth.

All indoor spaces are no mask no entry, leave your contact details at the door on the way in. Refusal to comply is an offence but the prescribed penalty is quite modest ($200 fine).

[Clean39T]

Tricky spot. On the one hand, shame is not a good teacher so calling them out must be done with a constructive tilt and carefully, if at all. Plus, people doing something is better than feeling overwhelmed with these impossible demands (I mean, a cloth mask!?!?!) and giving up entirely. On the other hand, it is a business so speaking with management might be a better option. I don't know how populated your area is (are you in Bend proper or just nearby?), but out here I have stopped even thinking about calling anyone out - anyone who is knowingly flaunting mask guidance/law at this point is just waiting for a fight. You can see it in their eyes, looking around wishing someone would say something. An acquaintance of mine works at a bike shop up in Eugene and had a woman tell him how lucky he was that she didn't have her gun on her after he politely asked that she, in accordance with state law, wear a mask in his shop.. I walk with a pretty sizable knife on my hip (Winter, thanks Eric) but I don't carry a gun, and half the assholes I see sans mask have a gun rack in their truck just itching to be trained at some freedom-hater like myself... I've chosen which lumber yard I go to and who mills our chicken scratch based on who wears masks - vote with your dollar, if possible..

I should have been more clear. The employees there are incredibly nice. I would contact management, potentially corporate.

We have a Whole Foods, which is a clusterfck since they aren't enforcing in/out flow or number of people in the store the way they do (or did) in Portland. That's really it for buying organic produce and our various granola-wares. There are a couple smaller stores but from what I've seen they are even more busy than Whole Foods and Natural Grocers (the store in question). We're in Bend proper now. City is growing really fast. There aren't enough of the type of grocery stores that the people who are moving here to want to shop at, so everything is crowded. Is what it is. We just moved here, so I'm part of that problem.

[beeatnik]

Tricky spot. On the one hand, shame is not a good teacher so calling them out must be done with a constructive tilt and carefully, if at all. Plus, people doing something is better than feeling overwhelmed with these impossible demands (I mean, a cloth mask!?!?!) and giving up entirely. On the other hand, it is a business so speaking with management might be a better option. I don't know how populated your area is (are you in Bend proper or just nearby?), but out here I have stopped even thinking about calling anyone out - anyone who is knowingly flaunting mask guidance/law at this point is just waiting for a fight. You can see it in their eyes, looking around wishing someone would say something. An acquaintance of mine works at a bike shop up in Eugene and had a woman tell him how lucky he was that she didn't have her gun on her after he politely asked that she, in accordance with state law, wear a mask in his shop.. I walk with a pretty sizable knife on my hip (Winter, thanks Eric) but I don't carry a gun, and half the assholes I see sans mask have a gun rack in their truck just itching to be trained at some freedom-hater like myself... I've chosen which lumber yard I go to and who mills our chicken scratch based on who wears masks - vote with your dollar, if possible..

If the rate of infection is relatively low and you're surrounded by individuals who are likely compliant (progressive, health food crowd), spending less than 15 minutes in the location, an N95 mask should provide total protection. Or one could adopt the universal strategy witnessed at Kaiser HMO pharmacies, double surgical masks.

[Clean39T]

If the rate of infection is relatively low and you're surrounded by individuals who are likely compliant (progressive, health food crowd), spending less than 15 minutes in the location, an N95 mask should provide total protection. Or one could adopt the universal strategy witnessed at Kaiser HMO pharmacies, double surgical masks.

Every state in the US is surging. We don't know the actual rate of infection. Testing sucks. Contact tracing is a joke. There's really nowhere in the US that is immune to COVIDiots, anti-maskers, etc. They are everywhere. And COVID doesn't care if you recycle or compost - plenty of people who shop for organic groceries are making bad health choices in other areas [going to family/holiday gatherings, religious gatherings, bars, etc.] - so I don't have any reason to feel "safe" in close proximity to anyone, anywhere, or any reason to let my guard down or let it slide when businesses are making poor decisions. Getting a true N95 that actually fits and works right would be nice too, but feasible - maybe next year. For now best I can do is some heavy cloth masks or the box of 95-ish masks I got from Costco that still let air in all around them - no seal means very imperfect protection. So, as long as I need food to live, and want to eat some vegetables to maintain heath, I have to go to a store. Is it really too much to ask that the store protects its employees and customers by having them wear face coverings that actually do something?

Still ranting. Still chapped.

[gregl]

- vote with your dollar, if possible..

This is where my head is at. Most local businesses have been great. All staff are masked, social distance signs everywhere, and generally polite customers. There are a few local businesses I no longer frequent because of their lack of PPE. In one local auto supply store, all of the staff either didn't wear masks, or only wore them loosely over their mouths. After one visit, I complained via their corporate website. I got a pleasant response stating that the issue would be addressed. A few weeks later, I went to the same store and nothing had changed. I sent another complaint to the corporate website and won't be purchasing from that company again. If your corporate culture is so poor that you allow customers' health to be risked, you won't be getting any of my $$.

Greg

[sine]

For some reason the primary place I have to shop to get quality natural foods is allowing their staff and management to just wear shields.

That is surprising. If I saw that I would go elsewhere.

I take my precautions by trying to hit the stores in the morning. Mostly hardware stores....lots of reno work. I try to time it so that I'm there after contractors have done their shopping. I reserve my N95 mask for when I visit medical offices. Uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time....especially when lying face down at my chiro......but c'est la vie.

[Clean39T]

That is surprising. If I saw that I would go elsewhere.

I take my precautions by trying to hit the stores in the morning. Mostly hardware stores....lots of reno work. I reserve my N95 mask for when I visit medical offices. Uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time....especially when lying face down at my chiro......but c'est la vie.

That's good confirmation. Unfortunately, there's really nowhere else to go. So I guess the right call is to try to push the store to change.

[bigbill]

I wear cloth masks all day. Maybe I've been under-informed all year, but I was led to believe that I'm wearing a mask to protect others in the event I get infected but remain asymptomatic for some period of time. My mask may offer me some protection, but that is not its purpose. My company requires a face covering including disposable masks (not N95, that's a respirator), cloth masks, gaitors, and face shields. Again, to protect others, not the wearer.

[beeatnik]

Every state in the US is surging. We don't know the actual rate of infection. Testing sucks. Contact tracing is a joke. There's really nowhere in the US that is immune to COVIDiots, anti-maskers, etc. They are everywhere. And COVID doesn't care if you recycle or compost - plenty of people who shop for organic groceries are making bad health choices in other areas [going to family/holiday gatherings, religious gatherings, bars, etc.] - so I don't have any reason to feel "safe" in close proximity to anyone, anywhere, or any reason to let my guard down or let it slide when businesses are making poor decisions. Getting a true N95 that actually fits and works right would be nice too, but feasible - maybe next year. For now best I can do is some heavy cloth masks or the box of 95-ish masks I got from Costco that still let air in all around them - no seal means very imperfect protection. So, as long as I need food to live, and want to eat some vegetables to maintain heath, I have to go to a store. Is it really too much to ask that the store protects its employees and customers by having them wear face coverings that actually do something?

Still ranting. Still chapped.

I misread your post. Thought shields were allowed in your jurisdiction. Here back in May you'd see a few kids with them as an alternative to masks.

[Clean39T]

I misread your post. Thought shields were allowed in your jurisdiction. Here back in May you'd see a few kids with them as an alternative to masks.

Here's what Oregon Health Authority says on it - seems it is "legal" to use a face-shield but not recommended:

What kinds of masks are acceptable?

Face coverings come in many kinds, including homemade cloth face coverings, plastic face shields, surgical masks and N95 respirators.

OHA recommends wearing a face covering or mask instead of a face shield, except in limited situations when a face shield by itself is appropriate, like talking to someone who is deaf or hard of hearing and needs to read lips to communicate.

We encourage Oregonians to continue conserving medical-grade masks for the medical professionals who need them most. Cloth face coverings are effective for most non-medical uses, and they’re reusable and washable.

and

It is not recommended that individuals wear a face shield instead of a mask or face
covering. Face shields can be very good at blocking droplets that individuals
release, but they are not as effective at limiting the release of aerosols that can go
around the shield.

and

Use of a face shield alone should only be done on very limited basis. Wearing a face
shield alone without a mask or face covering increases the potential for transmission of
viruses to those in the same room as the individual without the mask or face covering.

https://sharedsystems.dhsoha.state.o...ed/le2288K.pdf

Well, now I know what's going in the email.....

[Mark Kelly]

Maybe I've been under-informed all year, but I was led to believe that I'm wearing a mask to protect others in the event I get infected but remain asymptomatic for some period of time. My mask may offer me some protection, but that is not its purpose.

Pee test.jpg

[echappist]

Every state in the US is surging. We don't know the actual rate of infection. Testing sucks. Contact tracing is a joke. There's really nowhere in the US that is immune to COVIDiots, anti-maskers, etc. They are everywhere. And COVID doesn't care if you recycle or compost - plenty of people who shop for organic groceries are making bad health choices in other areas [going to family/holiday gatherings, religious gatherings, bars, etc.] - so I don't have any reason to feel "safe" in close proximity to anyone, anywhere, or any reason to let my guard down or let it slide when businesses are making poor decisions. Getting a true N95 that actually fits and works right would be nice too, but feasible - maybe next year. For now best I can do is some heavy cloth masks or the box of 95-ish masks I got from Costco that still let air in all around them - no seal means very imperfect protection. So, as long as I need food to live, and want to eat some vegetables to maintain heath, I have to go to a store. Is it really too much to ask that the store protects its employees and customers by having them wear face coverings that actually do something?

Still ranting. Still chapped.

Of course, it would be nice that everyone at the store wears a mask properly (even more preferable is the mask is a surgical mask), but there are mitigations.

I don't know what type of masks the employees of this particular South Korean Starbucks wore, but the lede as follows: Starbucks Cafe’s Covid Outbreak Spared Employees Who Wore Masks.

A single surgical mask (3-ply nonwoven) would probably suffice. If you want additional assurance, double up as recommended by @beeatnik above.

As for your groceries, isolate all non-perishables in a dedicated location for 3-4 days (proviso that the temperature be at least ~60 F). That should be enough time to deactivate the virus. I personally put all non-perishables in a plastic crate and just let them chill. Ditto for all other items coming into the house, unless I can be certain that the contents within the package 1) has spent at least three days at temperature above 60 F and 2) hasn't seen outside surface. This really isn't all that different from grabbing the mail delivered by USPS or other courier services.

For your perishables, place them in a designated location of the fridge and treat them no differently from how one might treat raw meat, which is to say, clean and/or sanitize all surfaces and equipment that come into contact. If you are really concerned, wear a mask when using perishable food.

Btw, the masks that store employees wear is also not perfect and would be subjected to the same issue you mentioned above. The key here is viral load, as in, how much goes over the mask.

[Too Tall]

In the middle of a bad day Mark K. made me laugh out loud.

Thanks for that.