The world is officially upside down.

[Corso]

No Glenn, this is why many folks are having emotional breakdowns of disbelief from the outcome of the election:
Here’s Why We Grieve Today | john pavlovitz

Wow, and you say my links were “one sided”…

If Saint Hillary was so special, she would have beaten Obama 8 years ago. If Hillary wasn’t a serial liar, she may have won. If Hillary paid her female staffers the same as men, she may have won. If Hillary was a true champion for women, she would have left her husband years ago. If Hillary didn’t believe she DESERVED to win, maybe she may have. She lost. To the most least political person ever to run.

Mr Pavlovitz clearly see things from one side. A man of religion just categorized half the country as racist, P*8ssy grabbing haters because Trump won.

Maybe, just maybe, it wasn’t racism. It was regular folks declaring they are sick of professional politicians. Maybe it’s that simple.

Right now I’m taking a break form my saturday project: Fixing a broken toilet. Somehow there’s irony in that.

[colker]

how do you define "left" in the US? ;))) democrats are left... ? ;)))

no, Trump did never say go out and attack minorities ... he wanted to punch people into their face, knock out the crap or their face and other stuff...

I will give it a try; There is Left thinking in the US and it has been hghly influential on the last 20 yrs, outside the US. Since the implosion of the Soviet Union, the days of dreaming w/ a Revolution where the working classes bring down Liberal Democracy are over. At least in the highly developed economies, it's over. The Left reorganized around the same ideas from the civil rights movement, ideas from the Gay Rights, feminism, gun control, legalize abortion, drugs etc.. The Left in latin America has changed from looking at those issues as a form of decadent bourgeois behaviour (the left has traditionally intolerant of homossexuality for example) to claiming those issues as their own.
We used to measure the Left to how close it was to marxism Leninism and the US left was small to non existent when compared to Europe and latin america and Asia. NOw it's the Left eveywhere taking cues from US progressist lifestyle and views. After the Berlin wall came down, it was either get a new perspective or close shop. So yes... democrats are close to what the Left represents these days.

[Saab2000]

I will give it a try; There is Left thinking in the US and it has been hghly influential on the last 20 yrs, outside the US. Since the implosion of the Soviet Union, the days of dreaming w/ a Revolution where the working classes bring down Liberal Democracy are over. At least in the highly developed economies, it's over. The Left reorganized around the same ideas from the civil rights movement, ideas from the Gay Rights, feminism, gun control, legalize abortion, drugs etc.. The Left in latin America has changed from looking at those issues as a form of decadent bourgeois behaviour (the left has traditionally intolerant of homossexuality for example) to claiming those issues as their own.
We used to measure the Left to how close it was to marxism Leninism and the US left was small to non existent when compared to Europe and latin america and Asia. NOw it's the Left eveywhere taking cues from US progressist lifestyle and views. After the Berlin wall came down, it was either get a new perspective or close shop. So yes... democrats are close to what the Left represents these days.

And I think you've hit the nail on the head. The people who don't feel part of the groups being courted by the Democrats in the US feel not only abandoned by the party, but at times vilified by segments of the Democratic Party. If they wish to be relevant they must build a bigger tent, a term that's often been used by Republicans wishing to attract a more diverse voter group.

[FSonicSmith]

I am thankful for this thread. It is carthartic (though nowhere close to cathartic enough) to read through a series of intelligent posts on a sensitive subject free of name-calling and such. Everyone can have his/her own theories as to what will transpire over the next four years. It is helpful to hear what some of the better reasoned possibilities are. Time is the great revelator. I look forward to seeing what time reveals, as it is bound to be (mostly) the truth. In the meantime, as has been said before, we can make things better by striving to be good (better) people. As is likely quite apparent, I despise just about everything about DJT. To me, he resembles a lead actor in "Bedtime for Bonzo" and I am not talking about Ronald Reagan. But even when things looked solid for Hillary, I knew that a healthy democracy requires a transition of power every eight years, if not four. So back to that idea of catharsis, the DJT era should serve as a good homeopathic enema.

[colker]

And I think you've hit the nail on the head. The people who don't feel part of the groups being courted by the Democrats in the US feel not only abandoned by the party, but at times vilified by segments of the Democratic Party. If they wish to be relevant they must build a bigger tent, a term that's often been used by Republicans wishing to attract a more diverse voter group.

Yup.. the progressive/ leftist/ hollywood etc.. mythology sees the white guy in mid america as the opressor. It's the close minded redneck who is mean to black, imigrant, women, gay etc... Those who create and perpetuate those cliches or "narratives" as it's called now, didn't realize we not only have a very different situation from the 60s civil rights but they didn't even understand them that well during the 60s. As people who claim as the utmost value to embrace the "other", the different.. the democrats lost an election because they couldn't represent those guys, the people in the midwest that are being seriously and tragically squashed by hip, wealthy, cosmopolitan America.
It's not the victory of racism.. it's a reaction from outcasts, from people left behind.

[woodworker]

Yup.. the progressive/ leftist/ hollywood etc.. mythology sees the white guy in mid america as the opressor. It's the close minded redneck who is mean to black, imigrant, women, gay etc... Those who create and perpetuate those cliches or "narratives" as it's called now, didn't realize we not only have a very different situation from the 60s civil rights but they didn't even understand them that well during the 60s. As people who claim as the utmost value to embrace the "other", the different.. the democrats lost an election because they couldn't represent those guys, the people in the midwest that are being seriously and tragically squashed by hip, wealthy, cosmopolitan America.
It's not the victory of racism.. it's a reaction from outcasts, from people left behind.

I agree in part. You've correctly identified the outcasts, but you're omitting the second part, which is that the outcasts, the people left behind, the largely white middle-class Americans, like many people in that position, look around for those who are to blame. We don't typically blame our neighbors, or people like us, but rather the unknown, those who are different. In addition to this pretty natural inclination, we have a politician, Trump, who is happy to reinforce that inclination by blaming the elite, the media, immigrants, etc. That's a recurring populist theme in America, the backlash against immigrants, which have generally backfilled in the first few generations the least desirable jobs--the Irish, the Italians, Jews, blacks, Chinese, Mexicans. The latest wave always takes the brunt of it. ...so in my view, you've missed half the story.

Also, I'm not aware of the mythology to which you refer: "the white guy in mid america as the oppressor." Most of the films in the last 20 years or so have large corporations as villains, and that's very different from "the white guy in mid america." In fact, I'd argue that large corporations are pretty much the opposite. Hollywood doesn't generally blame middle America, it blames the corporate boardroom. Easier, scarier (read, more powerful) villain.

[Scott G.]

Maybe, just maybe, it wasn’t racism. It was regular folks declaring they are sick of professional politicians. Maybe it’s that simple.

Or, example, solid working class majority white counties in Ohio that voted for Obama in '08 by a 20% margin, went for Trump.
8 years of Democrats, now it is the Republicans turn. Americans like to tack left then right.
The only 12 years of one party rule in the last century that didn't involve a death or resignation, was Reagan/Bush I.
There 3 Republicans in a row, Pierce(D) & Buchanan(D) were 1 term each, 1853-1861.

[72gmc]

Right now I’m taking a break form my saturday project: Fixing a broken toilet. Somehow there’s irony in that.

Good call. I worked on my LEGO Volkswagen bus with my kids.

[Dallas Tex]

No Glenn, this is why many folks are having emotional breakdowns of disbelief from the outcome of the election:
Here’s Why We Grieve Today | john pavlovitz

Your comment exemplifies the point of my post perfectly.

[bcm119]

Wow, and you say my links were “one sided”…

If Saint Hillary was so special, she would have beaten Obama 8 years ago. If Hillary wasn’t a serial liar, she may have won. If Hillary paid her female staffers the same as men, she may have won. If Hillary was a true champion for women, she would have left her husband years ago. If Hillary didn’t believe she DESERVED to win, maybe she may have. She lost. To the most least political person ever to run.

Mr Pavlovitz clearly see things from one side. A man of religion just categorized half the country as racist, P*8ssy grabbing haters because Trump won.

Maybe, just maybe, it wasn’t racism. It was regular folks declaring they are sick of professional politicians. Maybe it’s that simple.

Right now I’m taking a break form my saturday project: Fixing a broken toilet. Somehow there’s irony in that.

I think you overestimate the degree to which the left agrees on why Trump won, or why HRC lost. I have a very different opinion from the one you're projecting on the left.

If you look at the popular vote, Trump earned about the same number of votes that past Republican candidates have earned in recent elections. But HRC received nearly 5 million fewer votes than the Dems in recent elections. The numbers don't support the theory that every racist redneck came out of the woodwork to vote Trump. It's possible that some did, and made up for traditional Republicans who were disgusted by Trump, and coincidentally came to the same total, but I think that's unlikely. Much more likely is that Republicans simply support their candidate no matter what, because they understand that politics is a tug of war and if they stay home they lose. Meanwhile, liberals are more likely to have a more idealistic, irrational view of what their vote means. They treat the general election as if it were the primaries, voting with their hearts instead of shifting to damage control mode, like the Republicans figured out decades ago.

I have a pretty good pulse on the far left. I've a had a lot of conversations with people to the left of me not on policy but on voting strategy. here's a hypothetical but typical conversation to illustrate the irrationality of their voting strategy:

Me: So you're voting for Hillary?
Idealistic progressive: I don't know if I can...

M: So you'd prefer Trump??
IP: Oh god no, that would be a disaster!

M: So you're voting for Hillary... it's ok, I am too.
IP: You know she's just a pawn for Wall Street...I just don't think I can compromise my principles. I'd prefer neither one...

M: But one of them will be the next president...
IP: Well I might just write in bernie, or not vote...

M: So you're okay with a Trump presidency?
IP: No! But what choice do we have?

M: Well there is Hillary, you could vote for her.
IP: Why do you like Hillary so much?

M: I don't, but I like Trump even less, and those are the options. It's called a representative democracy, and sometimes we get a couple of stinkers. You vote for the less evil one.
IP: I don;t think I could sleep at night if I voted for her. Voting for the lesser of two evils is just buying into the duopoly.

M: Hopefully you can sleep at night under President Trump.

And it goes on... it's similar to talking to a toddler. You can eat your vegetables now and then have ice cream, or you can excuse yourself from the table. No, you can't skip your vegetables and just have ice cream. Because that's the way it works.

And I'm sure many of the people out protesting in the streets and signing petitions on facebook are the same ones who couldn't vote for Hillary because it would compromise their values. This is on us, liberals. Hopefully next time, we'll all remember how this election thing actually works.

[Corso]

LAFAYETTE, Louisiana – A Muslim student who reported her hijab was pulled from her head and was robbed by President-Elect Donald Trump supporters will now face charges for the false claims.
The 18-year-old college student told police that white men shouting racial slurs at her drove up in a truck and struck her multiple times in the back, while also stealing her hijab and wallet.

Following the accusation, Lafayette police said there were no witnesses or surveillance footage to back up the story.

After the New York Times, Times Picayune, Washington Post and Huffington Post all ran with the woman’s claims, Lafayette police said the entire story was fabricated, as Breitbart Texas reported.

“During the course of the investigation, the female complainant admitted that she fabricated the story about her physical attack as well as the removal of her hijab and wallet by two white males,” Lafayette police said in a statement. “This incident is no longer under investigation by the Lafayette Police Department.”

Now, the Muslim student is being charged with filing a fake police report, as a Lafayette police spokesman confirmed to WWL-TV.

_______________

I think this backs up an earlier post of mine.

Everyone’s gotta just calm down.

[nick k]

Individual anecdotes aside, the unquestionable trend is a dramatic increase in real and symbolic violence against minority groups that was inconceivable a week ago. In my city, swastikas have been painted on the windows of businesses, gay people chased and beaten in the streets, and university students have been taunted with lynching.

So, no. I don't need to calm down. People are legitimately at risk. It is not controversial which political party's standard bearers bear responsibility for fomenting and normalizing the attitudes that, unchecked, slip inexorably towards unspeakable violence. And then not checking them, publicly, unequivocally.

We can have a conversation about macro economics, the Federalist papers, tax policy, or the role of religion in government. But if someone can't decode what "Make America safe again" actually means in the context of the last year and a half...

[ericpmoss]

My friend teaches teachers in grad school. They are telling her that male students here in Chicago are grabbing girls in the crotch and breasts and laughing it off because "the prez sez it's ok". Some Latino teachers are being harassed to the point of saying they'll go back to teach in Mexico because they no longer feel safe. Her gay friends are terrified, former friends of hers are taunting her and making fun of her fear. Back in Lincoln, a mixed-race couple she knows were threatened with lynching by some ahole harassing them in the park. Certainly a lot of people voted Trump because of the economy, but a lot of people really think it's now "their time" and that women and minorities need to be reminded of their place in society. We probably don't know many people like that, but the ugly sure is coming out of the woodwork.

[Dallas Tex]

Individual anecdotes aside................

(Followed by a paragraph of anecdotal evidence)



Really?

[nick k]

There is no equivalence to an anecdote about someone pretending to be a victim of a hate crime and ACTUAL hate crimes.

[jclay]

It's time to quit bitching and get to work.

Neither Glenn, nor I, nor most of you are going to change our own or anybody else's minds here. Get involved in constructive ways that offer the potential for change of direction. Acknowledge the flaws and failures that got us here, there are plenty, and invest the sweat equity to generate change. Write letters to the editor. Participate in some worthwhile organizations.

Me? I'm getting involved in the local chapters of organizations that promote a national, single payer healthcare system (Physicians for a National Health Plan and Healthcare Now!) and maybe look into the local Democratic Party; they certainly need navigational aid. I'll also be looking to the Sanders organization for ideas on how to proceed.

Do something.

Amid DNC Reckoning, Ellison Emerges as Progressive Antidote to Trump | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

Where the Democrats Go From Here | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

[sk_tle]

Or, example, solid working class majority white counties in Ohio that voted for Obama in '08 by a 20% margin, went for Trump.
8 years of Democrats, now it is the Republicans turn. Americans like to tack left then right.
The only 12 years of one party rule in the last century that didn't involve a death or resignation, was Reagan/Bush I.
There 3 Republicans in a row, Pierce(D) & Buchanan(D) were 1 term each, 1853-1861.

But then, is Trump really a republican?

To me it looks like the republicans were just pwned by Trump at the primary. It looks to me like he is pretty much like an Oleg Tinkoff. He wanted a new toy, he found the right moment in that era of fear of the stranger and he knew how to steer the opinion of the masses to acquire that new toy. He doesn't seem to have a real program per se and will go on parade for 4 years without really governing. Frankly it could have bern Kanye West or Katy Perry and it would be the same.

In fact, I feel for the people who voted for him.

I read somewhere the best thing that could happen to democrats was a Trump win and the best things for the republicans a Clinton win. I sort of agree with that.

[colker]

Individual anecdotes aside, the unquestionable trend is a dramatic increase in real and symbolic violence against minority groups that was inconceivable a week ago. In my city, swastikas have been painted on the windows of businesses, gay people chased and beaten in the streets, and university students have been taunted with lynching.

So, no. I don't need to calm down. People are legitimately at risk. It is not controversial which political party's standard bearers bear responsibility for fomenting and normalizing the attitudes that, unchecked, slip inexorably towards unspeakable violence. And then not checking them, publicly, unequivocally.

We can have a conversation about macro economics, the Federalist papers, tax policy, or the role of religion in government. But if someone can't decode what "Make America safe again" actually means in the context of the last year and a half...

Isn't harrassment illegal? Isn't beating a fellon? Is Trump already getting rid of the legal system which protects citizen's rights?

[colker]

But then, is Trump really a republican?

To me it looks like the republicans were just pwned by Trump at the primary. It looks to me like he is pretty much like an Oleg Tinkoff. He wanted a new toy, he found the right moment in that era of fear of the stranger and he knew how to steer the opinion of the masses to acquire that new toy. He doesn't seem to have a real program per se and will go on parade for 4 years without really governing. Frankly it could have bern Kanye West or Katy Perry and it would be the same.

In fact, I feel for the people who voted for him.

I read somewhere the best thing that could happen to democrats was a Trump win and the best things for the republicans a Clinton win. I sort of agree with that.

There is a lot of establishment behind Trump w/ plans .. Also there is the necessary commitment to the constitution and actually governing the country. Otherwise there is always impeachment and they know it.

[Corso]

I’ll believe some of the reports-so Idiots are using Trump’s win as an excuse to let their hatred flow.

Any different that rioters using a peaceful protest as an excuse to attack the police, burn cars & buildings and that cute word,”loot”-(which is stealing)?

idiots on both sides.

The right had to put up with 8 years of Obama. I don’t recall massive protest or crying about it. Half the country didn’t vote for him either. But accepted it.