Middle east.

[Corso]

You cannot call yourself a conservative if you support Trump. "Trumpism" is a mishmash of ideologies, certain limited elements of which might borrow from "conservatism." At its core, Trumpism is fascism for the twenty-first century.

I'll call myself whatever I want to call myself. I don't know what to call or label you, so I won't begin to try. Amazing how people are willing to declare someone else is "wrong" on almost anything if they don't agree with them.

That said, I'll simple ignore your over-dramatic "fascism" comment.

[fastupslowdown]

There you have it. Trump's personal interests trumped national interests. Trump took out Soleimani to avoid impeachment

WSJ: “Mr. Trump, after the strike, told associates he was under pressure to deal with Gen. Soleimani from GOP senators he views as important supporters in his coming impeachment trial in the Senate, associates said.” -Mike G

[mzilliox]

John, when you're not throwing rocks at Trump and your neighbors and fellow Americans who voted for him, - lowering yourself to the level you criticize Trump lives in - you produce this gem that I can get on board with.

Historically, at times I believe our leaders were doing the right thing, others were true WTF moments. Without taking this thread on a completely different path to relive the past, at least this conservative agrees with you.

So at the end of the day, if you are on board with these things, and they are important and like a "Gem" why Trump? how do you see us getting there under the current administration faster than say an administration who tends to focus on these kinds of things, like services for Americans, using taxation for schooling instead of war, considering existential crises like nuclear war, climate change, and automation/AI??
Do you really think Trump is a faster way to get to these ideals than another person?

[HorsCat]

I'll call myself whatever I want to call myself. I don't know what to call or label you, so I won't begin to try. Amazing how people are willing to declare someone else is "wrong" on almost anything if they don't agree with them.

That said, I'll simple ignore your over-dramatic "fascism" comment.

Sure, Corso, you can call yourself whatever you want. I could say I'm 6'4 and hung like a horse, but that won't change the fact that I'm only 5'5. You could also say that Trump is honest and decent and qualified and competent and hardworking and didn't benefit from Russian interference. That wouldn't make it so, though. The fact remains that support for Trump is inconsistent with conservatism as traditionally defined. Instead of getting all haughty, why don't you make an argument for why I'm wrong.

[colker]

You cannot call yourself a conservative if you support Trump. "Trumpism" is a mishmash of ideologies, certain limited elements of which might borrow from "conservatism." At its core, Trumpism is fascism for the twenty-first century.

Exactly. Trump is about mining the credibility of institutions and conservatism is the opposite. HIs attacks on journalists and traditional politics or blurring the line between his personality and his role as POTUS are the exact opposite of conservatism.

[colker]

I'll call myself whatever I want to call myself. I don't know what to call or label you, so I won't begin to try. Amazing how people are willing to declare someone else is "wrong" on almost anything if they don't agree with them.

That said, I'll simple ignore your over-dramatic "fascism" comment.

If you call yourself a christian, muslim or jew but your actions are attacks at the fundamentals of those religions you may have a problem. Politics is not that extreme but still you are up to criticsm.

[colker]

Sure, Corso, you can call yourself whatever you want. I could say I'm 6'4 and hung like a horse,....

Isn´t that what you wrote on your Tinder profile?

[HorsCat]

Isn´t that what you wrote on your Tinder profile?

Negative. On Tinder I'm 6'6, a billionaire and hung like an elephant.

[Dallas Tex]

I don't support executions for homosexuality either, but I'm not a citizen of a country that does and I don't fancy myself so right and important that I can decide what is right for them.

Moral relativism has no place when people are murdered for simply being who they are. Killing gay people isn't something that is "right" for some cultures and not for others. It's just evil, abhorrent behavior. You can comfortably decide that for Earth, let alone Iran.

I have honestly not read anything more frightening than the above quote from 'Octave'. Is this the direction progressive ideology is heading?

Christian Fox thank you for clearly and concisely saying what everyone here should be able to agree on 100% without any qualification.

I'm surprised this bizarre post got two likes! I'm more surprised that this post hasn't gotten any more negative feedback than it has, seriously WTF?

[colker]

I have honestly not read anything more frightening than the above quote from 'Octave'. Is this the direction progressive ideology is heading?

Christian Fox thank you for clearly and concisely saying what everyone here should be able to agree on 100% without any qualification.

I'm surprised this bizarre post got two likes! I'm more surprised that this post hasn't gotten any more negative feedback than it has, seriously WTF?

I would like to commend on your acting on the "concerned about iranian hommosexuals" role.

[72gmc]

Is this the direction progressive ideology is heading?

I wouldn't generalize anything about any group of people from the contents of this thread. This is a small virtual room full of grumpy people, not the real world.

[bking]

Lot's of hypotheticals here. Here's one: Rouhani, I'd even throw in Soleimani since it's just a hypothetical, has a button and all they have to do is push and Israel ceases to exist. Are we ok with this?

Oil yes, spread of western capitalism, I get it, shame on us for thinking everyone wants to be an American. But when the US gets out of the middle east as it seems the loudest voices here think they should, is there some reason to think Rouhani wouldn't do what he has vowed to do and remove the “cancerous tumor”. Iran, or it's leadership, blame the west for placing Israel there. You also may think it was wrong. But the fact is they are there now. What to do? I am not smart enough, involved enough to know. But if you defend Iran as a peaceful country whose leaders just want to care for their own, I think you are wrong, dead wrong.

[colker]

Lot's of hypotheticals here. Here's one: Rouhani, I'd even throw in Soleimani since it's just a hypothetical, has a button and all they have to do is push and Israel ceases to exist. Are we ok with this?

Oil yes, spread of western capitalism, I get it, shame on us for thinking everyone wants to be an American. But when the US gets out of the middle east as it seems the loudest voices here think they should, is there some reason to think Rouhani wouldn't do what he has vowed to do and remove the “cancerous tumor”. Iran, or it's leadership, blame the west for placing Israel there. You also may think it was wrong. But the fact is they are there now. What to do? I am not smart enough, involved enough to know. But if you defend Iran as a peaceful country whose leaders just want to care for their own, I think you are wrong, dead wrong.

Can they anihilate Israel? Is Israel betting it´s survival on the US presence on the ME? Although i am not an expert on military capabilities i doubt that is the case. As far as we all know Israel has power enough to strike Iran... not the contrary.

[HorsCat]

Lot's of hypotheticals here. Here's one: Rouhani, I'd even throw in Soleimani since it's just a hypothetical, has a button and all they have to do is push and Israel ceases to exist. Are we ok with this?

Oil yes, spread of western capitalism, I get it, shame on us for thinking everyone wants to be an American. But when the US gets out of the middle east as it seems the loudest voices here think they should, is there some reason to think Rouhani wouldn't do what he has vowed to do and remove the “cancerous tumor”. Iran, or it's leadership, blame the west for placing Israel there. You also may think it was wrong. But the fact is they are there now. What to do? I am not smart enough, involved enough to know. But if you defend Iran as a peaceful country whose leaders just want to care for their own, I think you are wrong, dead wrong.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not now and never have defended the government of Iran in any respect. With that said . . .

The only country to have ever deployed a nuclear weapon in an act of aggression is the United States of America. Personally, I'm more concerned about climate change than I am about either Iran or North Korea having nuclear weapons. I say that as someone with family in Israel (who I happen to like) and as a big fan of kimchi.

[zachateseverything]

I have honestly not read anything more frightening than the above quote from 'Octave'. Is this the direction progressive ideology is heading?

Christian Fox thank you for clearly and concisely saying what everyone here should be able to agree on 100% without any qualification.

I'm surprised this bizarre post got two likes! I'm more surprised that this post hasn't gotten any more negative feedback than it has, seriously WTF?

Are you signing up for an invasion of Saudi Arabia?

[mzilliox]

Are you signing up for an invasion of Saudi Arabia?

of course not, hes simply trying to play at some moral high road of social acceptance of others while defending Trump, who represents the opposite of social tolerance of other in this nation. This feigned shock is lame dull as hell. the scariest thing youve read? cmon man, what dramatics! hes a random stranger who's words have zero affect on the state of the world or your life, and you think this is the scariest thing you've read, while meanwhile top officials are lying to our faces about reality on tv? FFS. what a world we all live in our heads, where reality is only subject to the whims of our interpretations of the signals it receives. crazy some brains receive signals so dramatically different. crazy how some can se morality in the killing of other humans. lesser evil or something? evil is evil
Hes trying NOT to justify his side, but to inaccurately villainize the other, thereby lessening the effect of the statement. I think the quote hes taken is being misinterpreted, but i could be wrong. I do not think the person means to say he is ignorant of the human rights issues present, only that he or she does not think we have the moral authority to go elsewhere and claim rightousness and play morality police for the world, while committing moral atrocities and ignoring much worse than Iran.

Like Hors cat, im much more afraid of what we are all doing to the planet in regards to pollution, species degradation, resource extraction, privatization of public land and climate change than these chest thump games of power. Iran is not our biggest worry, and they never will be.

[theflashunc]

Are you signing up for an invasion of Saudi Arabia?

And Russia, and China, and several countries across Central and Subsaharan Africa.

If we're the world's moral police, then there's a good chunk of the world we need to be dropping munitions on asap.

Of course, engagement diplomatically and socially will create more change than military efforts will, but why let reality get in the way of a good war.

[Dallas Tex]

Wow, for a bunch of opinionated 'progressive liberal activists' I'd expect more than snarky remarks in response to this post.

I don't support executions for homosexuality either, but I'm not a citizen of a country that does and I don't fancy myself so right and important that I can decide what is right for them.

Can't muster the strength to even present an opinion that might reflect negatively on Iran? Or do you simply agree with the post? Is this truly the direction 'progressiveness' is headed in?

[Dallas Tex]

This feigned shock is lame dull as hell. the scariest thing youve read? cmon man, what dramatics! .

Nope, absolutely sincere. Believe what you want. I am sincerely shocked that folks with the ability to operate a computer, and engage in conversations like this, could be so confused by dogma that they see nothing wrong with the idea outlined that post.

[theflashunc]

Wow, for a bunch of opinionated 'progressive liberal activists' I'd expect more than snarky remarks in response to this post.



Can't muster the strength to even present an opinion that might reflect negatively on Iran? Or do you simply agree with the post? Is this truly the direction 'progressiveness' is headed in?

Nope, absolutely sincere. Believe what you want. I am sincerely shocked that folks with the ability to operate a computer, and engage in conversations like this, could be so confused by dogma that they see nothing wrong with the idea outlined that post.

Because it's all the same bad faith arguments you've been trotting out for pages now.

Was it sloppily worded and shitty? Of course. It's not a stance I agree with, but saying its the direction of "progressivism" is as sloppily thought out and considered as the original statement.

This whole teetering-on-the-brink-of-war isn't about Iranian policy towards the gay community. It's been pretty clearly established for 40 years the GOP does not give two flying shits about the LGBTQ community in any significant way, from Reagan's dismissal of the AIDS crisis to resistance to gay marriage from W and his administration.

Iran is a theocracy run by folks who hold values that any open, ostensibly secular liberal society would, and do, condemn. But many of those same values are held by close allies of the United States. If your argument is that Iran is bad and we should not be engaging with them because they treat portions of their population like shit (because they do), then there's a laundry list of allies we need to cut ties with like yesterday.