Timepieces

[NYCfixie]

Looks like the Explorer II update is coming. I hope they leave the regular one alone, i'd still like to get one from an AD.

I'm curious to see what they do to the Explorer II. My guess is that it'll follow a similar pattern as the Submariners with the recent case design changes, but who knows. Some blogs/forums are predicting an Explorer I change, but I think that's unlikely since they just redid it a few years back.

Since they upsized the OP to 41mm, i suppose it's possible they'll do the same to the Explorer I, although i hope they don't. Or maybe they're planning on using Tudor
as the younger, more vintage vibe sizes, given how well BB58 was received. They should bring the Ranger back. It's interesting how much clutter there is in the Tudor range,
and with all the holes in the Rolex line, they have the possibility to fitting the two lines together much more than they have been doing more recently.

-g

I owned my 16570 Polar for 25 years and now own the 216570 Polar but I still have no idea what they are going to do. If you look closely at the video you will notice the cyclops which means they are teasing the Explorer II and not the Explorer. The Explorer II having been introduced in 1971 is the most likely candidate for the anniversary update. I hope they do not add the ceramic bezel as that would take away from the DNA of the Explorer II and make it not that much different from the Submariner, GMT II, and most recent Daytona update to ceramic.

I think they will make the case smaller because while it is listed as 42mm, it wears much bigger due to the large 53mm span across the wrist and many people find it too big which is is not unlike the original DateJust II which did not initially do well because it was too big (and was then slimmed down and made smaller as the DateJust 41mm). As part of making the case smaller, they will update to the 3285 movement with to the 70 hour power reserve also used in the current GMT II. By doing this they can discontinue the 3187 movement which was only ever used in the 42mm 216570 Explorer II and go back to sharing a movement in the GMT II and Explorer II.

Interestingly, I personally like the larger 42mm Explorer II 216570 because I have a larger than average 7.25 wrist so the bigger case fits me and the bigger 3187 movement also means a bigger date wheel so with that and the cyclops I can still read the date on my watch without needing reading glasses (aka getting old sucks).

Again, I have no idea what they are going to do but I will be the one who bets against what all the internet rumors say about adding a ceramic bezel to the Explorer II.

[GrantM]

If you look closely at the video you will notice the cyclops which means they are teasing the Explorer II and not the Explorer.

Unless they are radically changing what the current Explorer is, it's obvious from the video it's the explorer II, you can see the bezel in profile, and it has crown guards.
Lots of rumours flying around, as Matt was saying, the Explorer I has been sometimes lumped into the speculation (not based on this image) but i guess we'll find out on the 7th!

-g

[Matthew Strongin]

Yeah, that makes sense, although somehow Cartier seemed to either increase production, or had a lot more available stock (could very well be less current inventory sold)
since they didn't take the hit that Rolex did. What's so interesting is how it seems like nobody is talking about how the shortage in the market at AD's
is caused by production, they think it's all flippers buying every watch at retail. 140,000 fewer watches is a big number.

Cartier is a very different company, though. They're part of Richemont group, leverage some of the sibling companies within Richemont for movements, and have the benefits available to them that come with being part of a luxury goods conglomerate that has more resources to move around. Rolex is independent and it's just not as easy or realistic to spin up production to make up for lost time. They're also more conservative, which is a huge part of why they've been successful for so long. It also wouldn't be surprising if Cartier just had more stock available. They're extremely popular, but availability hasn't really ever been much of an issue for them whereas Rolex demand started high and has been climbing like crazy over the last few years. Everything that makes it into my wife's case these days sells right away. And while I can't say with 100% certainty that none of the watches make it to a flipper, I'm positive that none of them do knowingly and that the vast majority of them (maybe just shy of 100% to cover my ass if one slipped through the cracks) aren't going to flippers. But if you mix crazy high demand and a pause in production and it's just plain hard to catch up.

[Thad Pasquale]

Cartier is becoming very trendy. Not that it wasn't already great, but it just seems to have a bit of extra juice behind it. Some of the variants for the popular models like the Santos are getting a bit hard to come by here in Taiwan.

[GrantM]

some Rolex leaks

[Matthew Strongin]

Meteorite oysterflex Daytona? That's gonna look insane in person, if accurate.

[GrantM]

Meteorite oysterflex Daytona? That's gonna look insane in person, if accurate.

Yeah, i think i heard the case is platinum, faint of heart need not apply.

-g

[NYCfixie]

I think they will make the case smaller because while it is listed as 42mm, it wears much bigger due to the large 53mm span across the wrist and many people find it too big which is is not unlike the original DateJust II which did not initially do well because it was too big (and was then slimmed down and made smaller as the DateJust 41mm). As part of making the case smaller, they will update to the 3285 movement with to the 70 hour power reserve also used in the current GMT II. By doing this they can discontinue the 3187 movement which was only ever used in the 42mm 216570 Explorer II and go back to sharing a movement in the GMT II and Explorer II.

Interestingly, I personally like the larger 42mm Explorer II 216570 because I have a larger than average 7.25 wrist so the bigger case fits me and the bigger 3187 movement also means a bigger date wheel so with that and the cyclops I can still read the date on my watch without needing reading glasses (aka getting old sucks).

Again, I have no idea what they are going to do but I will be the one who bets against what all the internet rumors say about adding a ceramic bezel to the Explorer II.

Meteorite oysterflex Daytona? That's gonna look insane in person, if accurate.

Yeah, i think i heard the case is platinum, faint of heart need not apply.

-g

It appears Strongin and I were correct about the Explorer II and Daytona.

I am really surprised they did not do more with the Explorer II for the 50th anniversary which seems like a missed opportunity. They should have done green text and a green 24 GMT hand even if only for a few years and then gone back to orange.

It's cool they went back to 36mm for the Explorer but I personally do not like the new two-tone version.

[Matthew Strongin]

As the 39mm Explorer I is my favorite watch to wear, I'm a little bummed to see it go back to 36mm. Looks like the meteorite Daytona is white gold. So while still pricey, it'll be more "attainable" than if platinum. I can't wait to see it in person. I'm kinda glad they just did a small update to the Explorer II. It's not the big bang of a release some would hope for, but I appreciate them not messing too much with an icon.

Tudor, IMO, knocked it out of the park. I'd wear every single new model they released. In fact I already asked my wife if I can sell my Black Bay Chrono to get one of the new ones. And the updated 1926 will be an awesome option for people not wanting to spend a ton but still wanting to get into a quality timepiece. And the taupe Black Bay 58 on leather looks fantastic. Well done, Tudor.

[NYCfixie]

As the 39mm Explorer I is my favorite watch to wear, I'm a little bummed to see it go back to 36mm. Looks like the meteorite Daytona is white gold. So while still pricey, it'll be more "attainable" than if platinum. I can't wait to see it in person. I'm kinda glad they just did a small update to the Explorer II. It's not the big bang of a release some would hope for, but I appreciate them not messing too much with an icon.

Tudor, IMO, knocked it out of the park. I'd wear every single new model they released. In fact I already asked my wife if I can sell my Black Bay Chrono to get one of the new ones. And the updated 1926 will be an awesome option for people not wanting to spend a ton but still wanting to get into a quality timepiece. And the taupe Black Bay 58 on leather looks fantastic. Well done, Tudor.

As a long time Explorer II owner, I am glad they did not mess with the DNA of that watch.

I am not surprised about the 36mm Explorer because so many people want the "classic" size. I do think they should have kept the 39mm now that most other stainless steel sports watches have gone to at least 41mm (except for the Airking at 40mm which I am amazed was not dropped).

Not concerned about the Daytonoa because it is not like I am ever going to have the opportunity to purchase one at retail via an AD.

Tudor did do a great job with the Chrono and the 1926. I am ho-hum about the other releases.

[dashDustin]

The more I think about it, the more I like that silver dialed BB41. The chronos are cool...really dig the white/ black. I imagine they'll be difficult to obtain, however.

[Matthew Strongin]

The more I think about it, the more I like that silver dialed BB41. The chronos are cool...really dig the white/ black. I imagine they'll be difficult to obtain, however.

Yeah, I think the silver dial BB41 is a sleeper. Really nice and one that will likely do well.

[NYCfixie]

The more I think about it, the more I like that silver dialed BB41. The chronos are cool...really dig the white/ black. I imagine they'll be difficult to obtain, however.

Not necessarily. When the Pepsi GMT BB first launched, it was wait listed for several months but then after that most ADs said if you leave a deposit we can have it for you in 3-4 months (rather than 3-4 years with an additional 100k spend for the Rolex Pepsi GMT II). If you look back a few pages you will see I was recently offered one. The AD said they got a few month before the pandemic and assume they will get back to that amount once production is back to 100%. So, I assume it will be the same for the Chrono since most dealers always had the current version in stock becasue it is less popular than the BB GMT.

[GrantM]

As the 39mm Explorer I is my favorite watch to wear, I'm a little bummed to see it go back to 36mm.

Yeah, i don't understand Rolex at all, but i guess it's possible they are intentionally driving a younger customer to Tudor, so anything that's actually cool won't have Rolex on it.
There is now zero watches in the Rolex range that i'd buy. I don't actually understand the 36mm size for either men or women in the current context, it seems like
39 is the size that is the most commercial opportunity.

Tudor, IMO, knocked it out of the park. I'd wear every single new model they released. In fact I already asked my wife if I can sell my Black Bay Chrono to get one of the new ones. And the updated 1926 will be an awesome option for people not wanting to spend a ton but still wanting to get into a quality timepiece. And the taupe Black Bay 58 on leather looks fantastic. Well done, Tudor.

Agreed! Guess i'll have to get past my lukewarm feelings on the bracelet rivets and snowflake hands. The current Tudors have most of what is going on in the market,
they seem to be the outlet for the current 'retro' vibe that is happening, whereas Rolex is completely ignoring even the slightest reference to anything related to heritage
models, their current line is incredibly boring. Black dial Explorer II? how original! A no date sub is a icon, and I was never a fan of the supercase, the proportions
on the current one are great, but i think it's too big for me, i'd need to try it, but the clasp seems massive for my wrist.

I guess one of the funniest things is Patek making news about cancelling the 5711, and the market pushing resale prices to over $100k and then
they just change the dial to green! The watch market is super weird.

I've only been following the trends for the last couple years, after having ignored it since the 90's when i was last collecting watches.
It seems like the annual schedule drives a lot of the market, whereas you wouldn't necessarily think there is genuinely anything much "new"
to drive the big swiss brands. I guess it's mostly a game of rotation, and as a customer you have to wait until the year they finally make what
you want to buy, instead of having sizes and colours built into every range, and these things are just there for you to buy when you want it.

It would be like, well this year Specialized is going to make a 54cm Sworks in black, so this is the chance to get yours. Then they will discontinue
it because they feel like it.

-g

[theflashunc]

In the non-Rolex/Tudor category, I'm digging the Hermes P08 and that completely insane JLC Reverso with four faces and 11 complications. A 39mm cushion case sports watch seems to hit the market sweet spot right now. And anyone who wants to track three seprate moon phase cycles, well, JLC has the watch for you.

[dashDustin]

That JLC is nuts.

Also dig the 43mm Big Pilot. But the crown seems disproportionately large. When I get tired of playing bikes and watches, I believe I’ll just sell everything except my PO and buy a BP.

[funcrusher]

some Rolex leaks

what does this imply for the sky dweller? still playing the waiting game for a blue face...prob shoulda just taken the black face that was offered to me

[GrantM]

what does this imply for the sky dweller? still playing the waiting game for a blue face...prob shoulda just taken the black face that was offered to me

at least they kept the blue version in the range, and it looks like there is both the oyster or jubilee option for all colours.

As Matt was saying, hopefully production improves in 2021, the numbers show swiss watch manufacturing was really impacted by covid,
supply should eventually be getting better.

-g

[VTMike]

If Rolex is above budget, is Tudor the brand to go with?

A little more context...
My son graduates from College in a few weeks.
He's pined after a Rolex Datejust 41 with the blue face.
He has a Hamilton Officer that I bought him second-hand from here, a Stowa Klassik 41 handwind that we bought him during his freshmen year, and a few smartwatches (Apple and Garmin Fenix) that get a lot of his wrist-time. He'll very-much be in a professional environment where his dress/appearance will be measured and he typically moves back and forth between the Hamilton and Stowa with past work (same company for the last 2 summers).
His buddy received a Tudor for his college graduation and he was saying how much he liked the 1926 as posted above.
If he's NOT going Rolex (whether spending his own money or if my wife and I opt to splurge), should Tudor be high on his list or should we consider other brands in the sub $5k range (e.g. Oris or ...)?

[Thad Pasquale]

In the non-Rolex/Tudor category, I'm digging the Hermes P08 and that completely insane JLC Reverso with four faces and 11 complications.

Right there with you...it will be hard for me to resist that P08. They seem to be one of few who are really paying attention to font design. The JLC is limited to 10 pieces I believe and I read (didn't confirm) that it will be a +1 million USD watch...unattainable but my favorite of the day.