2020 Political Chatter

[Sbti]

Federal income taxes paid in 2017 (jointly with spouse):
Joe Biden - $3,742,974
Kamala Harris - $516,469
Bernie Sanders - $343,882
Elizabeth Warren - $268,484

Donald Tя☭mp $750

Buh, buh, he's one of us. He tells it like it is. He's for the workin' man. That makes him smart. He said so.
And what about her emails?

[Clean39T]

Noooope not gonna reply....d!mnit you made me.

John "they" are not ignorant or uneducated first off. Second, if that is so (owning the libs) than you 'splain to me how nearly the entire GOP also only cares about owning the libs.

No wait. Don't answer that, I'm going to my safe place.

The educated ones, the ones with the power and wealth, need the "fuck the libs" crowd to maintain their power and they carry a "fuck the libs" message as a duck-call for their masses. That the "fuck the libs" crowd are too stupid to tell that they are getting bamboozled by their precious idols is exactly how those idols want it to be. It's fifty years of selling guns, god, and small-gubberment to a group that has been under-educated and manipulated by the Republican ruling class from cradle to couch. They'll I guess never put together that the reason their lives are nasty, brutish, and short is because their idols have sold them out - a green new deal could be their ticket to middle-class jobs, a civilian conservation corp could give them places to hunt and fish that aren't shitholes or toxic, but no, can't have the government supporting innovation or the common good - that's Socialism(!) - and its far better to cut taxes for the wealthy (or simply not close loopholes) than to share wealth with the republic - that's just how it needs to be - that's patriotic - it's america - it's what the founding fathers wanted! The irony that their lives would be demonstrably better under a leftist, democratic socialist form of government could not be more sad. Why anyone who can't afford healthcare would oppose free healthcare, or who supports cutting welfare and social-security when that's all they have to live on is baffling... It's also baffling to me how people who go to church (and therefore presumably have some form of moral code) and hold down middle-class jobs (and therefore presumably have a functioning brain) can support tRump and his cadre of dastardly imbeciles - but I pretty much just chalk that up to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and well-cultivated domain-specific ignorance.

[theflashunc]

John, now that would be amazing, you not saying anything else on this topic!

Kidding aside, I was asked a question, and explained where I stand at the moment.

After years of reading the political postings on the Salon, I think it's very clear where the majority of you stand.

And no John, Roe v Wade has nothing to do with my decision making, (I'm pro-choice) other than it's another "the sky is falling" outcry. It won't be overturned, period, but it's another "let's fire up the protest machine!" when a conservative, and "oh my God"- a Catholic judge is nominated.

Just like "the Dems are going to take away your guns!"---BS from the right. I'm tired of all of it from all sides, just like many of you are.

Coney Barrett has been on the public record as saying abortion is "always immoral" and has a record on the 7th circuit appeals court of ruling on restricting abortion in two cases. If you think a 6-3 conservative majority won't overturn Roe v Wade the first chance they get -- when Gorsuch, Alito, Thomas have shown a willingness in their own decisions to overturn precedent, I have a nice bridge from Manhattan to Brooklyn for sale.

ACA and Roe v Wade will be top of the chopping block for this new court. And just to head this off at the pass, they may not outright overturn it. Instead, they'll continue to rule in a way that makes abortion more and more difficult to perform, so that it's effectively outlawed. Hospital admitting privileges, 8 week limits, it's all on the table.

The grand conservative legal experiment is not going to let Roe stand when it's been the cultural cause celebre for nigh on 50 years now.

[vertical_doug]

The NYTIMES headline using 'TAX AVOIDANCE' is an interesting choice for the paper. I can't comment on the details related to real estate transactions, but I do know the IRS has changed rules substantially post 2008 regarding using certain structures which primary purpose is to reduce taxes without other economic benefit. This is generally regarded as TAX AVOIDANCE as opposed to tax efficiency which will land you in trouble with the IRS. The criteria for getting safe harbor exclusions are very detailed, and knowing the Trump Organization, they pushed boundaries.

I also find the $70,000 deduction for haircuts for the apprentice, quite funny.
And he claimed a deduction for Ivanka. Since she is a gone adult, and probably an employee, does she have to claim that has a gift?

[monadnocky]

Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they'll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they're not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it's irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing. Trust me; I know firsthand what I'm talking about. That's why they just laugh at it all because you all don't even realize they truly don't give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about. It's just a side mission story that doesn't matter anyway. That's all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever. Fuck liberals.... [snip]

You got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that's what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I'm not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that's what proves they're strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness. They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they're in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that's an obvious sign of weakness.

Kindness=weakness. Honesty=weakness. Compromise=weakness. They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn't hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it's that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.

Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.*

Yep. Yep yep yep. And his supporters - even those who don't actively oppose him - will cite this as the reason why he hasn't paid over $287,000,000 in taxes over the last ten years. He may be a grifter and a con man, but more importantly he is fucking the government and, if you're not aligned with him politically (whatever the hell that is), then he is fucking you, and in this zero-sum-game world somehow his supporters and enablers come out on top.

Those of us who mock and deride this empty shell of a human being do so because we have a moral compass, flawed as it may be, but it's there. How can one not?

*Also, note that these words are from an acquaintance of John's, not John's words.

[jclay]

The educated ones, the ones with the power and wealth, need the "fuck the libs" crowd to maintain their power and they carry a "fuck the libs" message as a duck-call for their masses. That the "fuck the libs" crowd are too stupid to tell that they are getting bamboozled by their precious idols is exactly how those idols want it to be. It's fifty years of selling guns, god, and small-gubberment to a group that has been under-educated and manipulated by the Republican ruling class from cradle to couch. They'll I guess never put together that the reason their lives are nasty, brutish, and short is because their idols have sold them out - a green new deal could be their ticket to middle-class jobs, a civilian conservation corp could give them places to hunt and fish that aren't shitholes or toxic, but no, can't have the government supporting innovation or the common good - that's Socialism(!) - and its far better to cut taxes for the wealthy (or simply not close loopholes) than to share wealth with the republic - that's just how it needs to be - that's patriotic - it's america - it's what the founding fathers wanted! The irony that their lives would be demonstrably better under a leftist, democratic socialist form of government could not be more sad. Why anyone who can't afford healthcare would oppose free healthcare, or who supports cutting welfare and social-security when that's all they have to live on is baffling... It's also baffling to me how people who go to church (and therefore presumably have some form of moral code) and hold down middle-class jobs (and therefore presumably have a functioning brain) can support tRump and his cadre of dastardly imbeciles - but I pretty much just chalk that up to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and well-cultivated domain-specific ignorance.

Dan,

Thanks for pointing out that abortion can be, and has been, effectively eliminated or drastically restricted in some states (as well as the very real desire and increasing capability to overturn RvW): https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/polit...aws/index.html

Corso, note the states in the linked article.

Thanks, also, for pointing out that the "fuck the libs" crowd is their own worst enemy as it relates to supporting government that works in their best interest. While neo-liberal economics has been supported by both parties for a long time, to the detriment of blue collar workers and increasingly white collar, today's RP applies it far more broadly, rejecting government operation in pretty much anything like a tax based national health care system or dealing with the costs to society of, for example, environmental damage for lack of strong protections and changes to, say, transportation. It is wed to the idea that "free enterprise" is the optimum tool for everything, something that's absurd and for which there are plenty of contrary, present day examples. It also is far more effective at stoking red herring fires; the FtLibs crowd would be a lot better off with M4A, a national focus on jobs via improvements to our infrastructure, passenger rail and things like that, than a rack of firearms in the house and visions of Rambo, Three Percenters and sugarplums in their heads.

We are still very much a nation with a substantial frontier mentality.

[Corso]

Corso (off-putting as I sometimes am I'd rather address you by your first name);

I don't know the culture or politics up in your neck of the woods but I do know the culture and politics south of the Smith and Wesson Line (some mistakenly call it the Mason Dixon Line).

Incidentally, I grew up in Springfield MA, home of Smith & Wesson...

Anyway, I live in Eastern MA, and the only time the RvW topic comes up, it's by the left as a knee jerk reaction to appointments by the right. Not by the people who actually want it overturned. Even the conservative-leaning friends I have agree that it should not be changed, and also feel it's a "scare tactic", to get the Lib-base fired up. That's where I live.

I TOTALLY agree on regional differences and have witnessed many. And while you and I see things differently at times, (other times not), I do respect your passion and convictions.

[Mark Walberg]

The educated ones, the ones with the power and wealth, need the "fuck the libs" crowd to maintain their power and they carry a "fuck the libs" message as a duck-call for their masses. That the "fuck the libs" crowd are too stupid to tell that they are getting bamboozled by their precious idols is exactly how those idols want it to be. It's fifty years of selling guns, god, and small-gubberment to a group that has been under-educated and manipulated by the Republican ruling class from cradle to couch. They'll I guess never put together that the reason their lives are nasty, brutish, and short is because their idols have sold them out - a green new deal could be their ticket to middle-class jobs, a civilian conservation corp could give them places to hunt and fish that aren't shitholes or toxic, but no, can't have the government supporting innovation or the common good - that's Socialism(!) - and its far better to cut taxes for the wealthy (or simply not close loopholes) than to share wealth with the republic - that's just how it needs to be - that's patriotic - it's america - it's what the founding fathers wanted! The irony that their lives would be demonstrably better under a leftist, democratic socialist form of government could not be more sad. Why anyone who can't afford healthcare would oppose free healthcare, or who supports cutting welfare and social-security when that's all they have to live on is baffling... It's also baffling to me how people who go to church (and therefore presumably have some form of moral code) and hold down middle-class jobs (and therefore presumably have a functioning brain) can support tRump and his cadre of dastardly imbeciles - but I pretty much just chalk that up to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and well-cultivated domain-specific ignorance.

Well said Dan.
It is even harder to understand that, with all the evidence, they cannot see that Trump would sell them out without a microsecond of thought, that he is doing it over and over. They are convinced that his tax break was for them.
When everything he says contradicts what he said before or what the rest of his staff has said. Meaning that at least half of his words are lies.
There is a truly profound blindness to being totally controlled and screwed for the benefit the well to do.

[vertical_doug]

Well said Dan.
It is even harder to understand that, with all the evidence, they cannot see that Trump would sell them out without a microsecond of thought, that he is doing it over and over. They are convinced that his tax break was for them.
When everything he says contradicts what he said before or what the rest of his staff has said. Meaning that at least half of his words are lies.
There is a truly profound blindness to being totally controlled and screwed for the benefit the well to do.

Trump is a a fascist wannabe. Trump is particularly attractive to people that had believed themselves 'exceptional' but have suffered humiliation. Trump plays blame someone else , and pretends to save their exceptionalism. You have racist paranoia and conspiracy theories that scapegoat losses. He is offering a demoralised and failing part of the American electorate an alternative reality. If they believe they are exceptional, then Americans have been betrayed and Trump promises to right their wrong. Trump's giant rallies are meant to create a sense of myth and power, to make believers feel as if they were chosen to part of a larger calling. These are like church services worshiping a leader, hence his need to entangle evangelicals.

It doesn't accomplish anything by questioning the believers, if anything, it strengthens their resolve, otherwise they have to admit their unexceptionalism.

The thing I pray is somehow this NYTIMES article on his taxes morphs into a Edward R Murrow piercing the myth of McCarthy on See It Now moment, and starts to unwind the myth.

Trump hasn't sued NYTimes for defamation, so I feel comfortable assuming the tax returns are legit.

[bcm119]

Shall I forward any increase to you, so you can pay them, to satisfy what some call your "fair share"?

Keep the snark* to yourself. No one wants to pay more taxes. if they did, you can always overpay the Gov. But no one does.


*If I've misread your reply, please state exactly what you meant.

To understand why liberals don't generally volunteer to overpay taxes, you have to understand the variability of the value of a dollar. As in, the first dollar of your income is worth far more than the 100,000th. Everyone understands this, either consciously or not; no one questioned why Trump would defer his presidential salary-- an extra $400k to a billionaire isn't worth much*.

Which is why I, and most other middle class liberals, aren't going to give extra money to the government if they don't have to. Let's say I want my city police dept to have a bigger budget. I could donate $1000 of my money-- a significant amount to any non-wealthy citizen-- and the police budget would have an extra $1000. Not significant to them, but significant to me. Or, I could vote to increase property taxes by $5/year, and the police dept could have an extra $1,000,000. Significant to them, but not significant to me or any other tax payer. This is why liberals who want government budgets generously funded will vote for tax increases but not voluntarily fund them themselves. It's also why on any non-profit funding drive, wealthy people put up a large donation challenge- to ensure their significant contribution will be multiplied by others so it's significant to the receiving entity as well.

*now we see maybe he isn't a billionaire and he deferred the salary to keep his losses high.

[vertical_doug]

https://rsc-johnson.house.gov/sites/...20Dream%20.pdf

This is a house republican report on 'Reclaiming the American Dream' I think it reads a bit like Animal Farm.

[Too Tall]

https://rsc-johnson.house.gov/sites/...20Dream%20.pdf



This is a house republican report on 'Reclaiming the American Dream' I think it reads a bit like Animal Farm.

reclaim.jpg
(no comment on the artwork or historical references OMFG)

I have not had a good laugh in ages. Thank you Doug. Oh here are the bullet points :

THE AMERICAN WORKER TASK FORCE
LIST OF POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS
Refine our Education System to Better Equip the American Worker
1. Enact the Academic Partnerships Lead Us to Success (A PLUS) Act
2. Repurposing Federal Education Funding into Vouchers or Education Savings Accounts
3. Transform the Head Start Program into an Early Childhood Education Voucher Program for Low-Income Families 4. Codify Trump Administration Executive Order to Focus Federal Hiring on Skills over Degrees
5. Reallocate Existing Funding from College Promotion Programs to Boost Career and Technical Education (CTE) 6. Eliminate Parent PLUS and Grad PLUS Loan Programs
7. Recalibrate Borrowing Caps on Undergraduate Student Loans
8. Eliminate student loan forgiveness and tuition tax credits
9. Eliminate Marriage Penalty in Student Loan Tax Deduction in Budget-Neutral Manner
10. Reduce the Student Loan Borrowing Cap to Account for Remote Instruction
11. Prioritize Future Higher Education Pandemic Funding to Institutions Offering On-Campus Classes
12. Codify the Department of Education’s Distance Education Waiver
13. Embrace Private Education Lending through Reduced Federal Loans
14. Provide Regulatory Clarity for Income Sharing Agreements (ISAs)
15. Clarify Fair Lending Requirements to Promote Forward-Looking Education Financing
16. Require Student Loan Repayment Rates to be Calculated at the Program Level
17. Allow Colleges to Limit Federal Loans Based on Field of Study
18. Require Institutions to Repay a Percentage of Graduate’s Debt If Defaults Are Too High
19. Link Performance-based Funding to Student Employment Outcomes
20. Require Employer Representation on Accreditation Boards
21. Allow Skills-focused Organizations to Teach up to 100% of a Program
22. Remove Federal Cap on Private Sector Federal Work Study (FWS) Opportunities
23. Require All Types of Employers to Meet the Same FWS Match Requirement
24. Remove FWS Community Service Requirement
25. Enact the Empowering Students Through Enhanced Financial Counseling Act
26. Provide Secure Access to Post-Graduation Employment Outcome Information
27. Integrate Outcome-Based Data into Accreditation Process
28. Require Colleges to Report on Course Credit Transferability
29. Require Fair Value Accounting for Federal Student Loan Budgeting
30. Enact the Pell Flexibility Act
31. Expand Financial Aid Eligibility for Short-Term and Other Innovative Programs in Budget Neutral Way
32. Expand 529 Accounts to become Lifelong Learning Education Savings Accounts
33. Adjust WIOA Requirements to Boost Provider Participation
53
34. Expand Opportunities for Skilled Workers by Clarifying Allowable Hiring Assessments
Refocus Labor Policy to Unleash the American Worker
35. Codify and Enhance Trump’s Industry Recognized Apprenticeship Program Rule
36. Codify DOL Guidance on DOD SkillBridge Program for Veterans
37. Open Interstate Trucking to Drivers Under 21-Year-Old With Apprenticeships
38. Support Trump Administration Executive Order Requiring Agencies to Provide Regulatory Relief 39. Enact the New GIG Act
40. Allow “Household Workers” to be Treated as Independent Contractors for Tax Purposes
41. Enact the Portable Certification for Spouses Act
42. Establish State Reporting Requirements on Occupational Licensing for Receipt of WIOA Funds
43. Establish an Occupational Freedom Metric to Award WIOA Funding
44. Enact the Restoring Board Immunity Act
45. Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act
46. Codify Trump’s Joint-Employer Rule
47. Amend the Child Care Development Fund to Require States to Provide Vouchers Directly to Families
48. Amend the Child Care Development Fund to Prevent States from Setting Lower Reimbursement Rates for Home Based Child Care 49. Require HHS to Produce a Report on the Cost of State Child Care Regulations
50. Promote Worker Upskilling Opportunities through Tax Deductibility
51. Insulate Remote Work from Undue Tax Burdens During the Pandemic
52. Enact the Employee Bonus Protection Act
53. Enact the Working Families Flexibility Act
54. Adopt Universal Savings Accounts
55. Codify the Trump Administration’s Guidance to Expand Investment Options for 401(k) & IRA Holders
56. Enact the Rewarding Achievement & Incentivizing Successful Employees (RAISE) Act
57. Enact the National Right-to-Work Act
58. Enact the Employee Rights Act
59. Enact the Federal Employee Rights Act
60. Codify 2020 NLRB Rule on Ambush Elections
61. Enact the Union Integrity Act
62. Enact the Union Transparency and Accountability Act
63. Exempt Small Businesses from NLRB Overreach
64. Amend the National Labor Relations Act to Allow Alternative Labor-Management Cooperation
65. Provide Workforce Training Opportunities for Sufferers of Opioid Addiction
Reimagine Welfare to Empower Individuals & Families
66. Eliminate Work Requirement Waivers Based on Unemployment Relative to the National Average 67. Codify the Trump Administration’s ABAWD Rule
68. Reduce Size of Waivable Population Per State Under SNAP
69. Codify the Trump Administration’s Broad-Based Categorical Eligibility Rule
70. Close SNAP’s Heat and Eat Loophole
71. Require States to Restrict SNAP Food Eligibility to Only Healthy Foods
72. Require States Integrate Home Visits into SNAP Programs to Reduce Fraud
73. Enact the No Welfare for Weed Act
74. Enact an Enhanced Version of The JOBS for Success Act
75. End Obama-era Housing First Policy
76. Codify the Trump’s Continuum of Care (CoC) Rule
77. Codify the Trump’s Housing Proposal to Institute Work Expectations for Non-Elderly & Non-Disabled
54

78. Codify the Trump’s Plan to Implement Minor Increases in Rent Paid by Able-Bodied Tenants 79. Expand and Codify HUD’s Moving to Work (MTV) Program
80. Make Housing Assistance Vouchers More Portable
81. Allow a Portion of Housing Vouchers to Pay Moving Expenses
82. Allow Private and Public-Private Partnerships to Administer Federal Housing Programs 83. Subject Housing Grants to Outcome-Based Competitive Bidding
84. Encourage Private Investment in Public Housing
85. Expand the Rental Assistance Demonstration (RAD) Program
86. Enact the Public Housing Accountability Act
87. Remove Marriage Penalty in Public Housing Benefits
88. Allocate Existing Federal Housing Funding to Assisting Recovering Drug & Alcohol Abusers 89. Address Public Housing Waitlist Backlog by Implementing Roommate Assignments
90. Establish a Single Flat SSDI Benefit Level
91. End Double-Dipping of Disability Insurance & Unemployment Insurance
92. Match Retroactive SSDI Benefits to the Period of Retroactivity
93. Include Unearned Income in the Definition of Income under SSDI Program
94. Update the Official List of Available Jobs under SSDI
95. Eliminate SSDI’s Non-Medical “GRID” Qualifications of Age, Education & Work Experience 96. Strengthen Continuing-Disability Reviews (CDRs) under SSDI
97. Allow use of Social Media in Eligibility Determinations to Reduce SSDI Fraud
98. Apply Judicial Code of Conduct to Administrative Law Judges (ALJ) under SSDI
99. Conduct Reviews of Outlier Judges under SSDI
100. Reduce Target Caseloads for ALJs under SSDI
101. Eliminate SSDI’s the Reconsideration Review Stage
102. End SSDI Payments to Representatives out of Personal Benefits
103. Eliminate the Medical Improvement Review Standard (MIRS) under SSDI
104. Give Employers a Stake in Reducing SSDI Costs
105. Require SSDI Applicants to have Worked in Recent Years
106. Expand Utilization of Private Disability Insurance
107. Enact the Help Americans in Need Develop Their Ultimate Potential (HAND UP) Act
108. Codify DHS Public Charge Rule
109. Limit Welfare Benefits to American Citizens
110. Amend Welfare Benefits Formulas to Exclude Illegal Alien Populations
111. Implement E-Verify Within Federal Jobs Training Programs
112. Incentivize States to Identify and Reduce Welfare Fraud and Abuse
113. Enact the Drug Testing for Welfare Recipients Act
114. Eliminate Performance Bonuses in Welfare Programs to Incentivize Enrollment
115. Implement Stronger Verification to Prevent Fraud in the EITC & CTC
116. Enact the No Free Rides Act
117. Enact the Preventing Illegal Immigrants from Abusing Tax Welfare Act
118. Test the Viability of Social Impact Bonds

[vertical_doug]

or just lump into a big three:
1. Privatize education with vouchers and limit financing options
2. Abolish Unions- I mean a right to work.
3. Gut Welfare- it's why illegal aliens come here , to abuse welfare.

[jclay]

https://rsc-johnson.house.gov/sites/...20Dream%20.pdf

This is a house republican report on 'Reclaiming the American Dream' I think it reads a bit like Animal Farm.

Can I be frozen, put into suspended animation for a while, and then thawed out after the country has waded through this "I insist on being stupid and retrograde" period and matured a bit from the experience? I don't really feel a loss at having missed the Dark Ages V1 so I wouldn't mind missing V2 either. KnowwhaddImean?

[Too Tall]

or just lump into a big three:
1. Privatize education with vouchers and limit financing options
2. Abolish Unions- I mean a right to work.
3. Gut Welfare- it's why illegal aliens come here , to abuse welfare.

Does S.Miller lie awake at night cribbing these notes? Asking for a fiend.

[Too Tall]

Can I be frozen, put into suspended animation for a while, and then thawed out after the country has waded through this "I insist on being stupid and retrograde" period and matured a bit from the experience? I don't really feel a loss at having missed the Dark Ages V1 so I wouldn't mind missing V2 either. KnowwhaddImean?

Yes. That is V-approved. Infact, move over make room for a few more.

[vertical_doug]

Does S.Miller lie awake at night cribbing these notes? Asking for a fiend.

Propaganda becomes art!

[Sbti]

Arbeit Macht Frei!

Tя☭mp-$750

[Saab2000]

I got my ballot in the mail today. I plan to fill it out tomorrow and drop it off at the location indicated on the instructions rather than sending it via USPS.

Don’t forget to sign them people! It is, I think, the Nr. 1 reason absentee or mail-in ballots are rejected.

[Saab2000]

Propaganda becomes art!

My sister-in-law, who grew up in what was then East Germany, made my brother remove his Lenin artwork when they became an item. She doesn’t recall that doctrine with fondness.