Abundance of information = improved intelligence?

[Chik]

I would disagree with the order. Not to minimize cops on the beat and a strong regulatory environment it starts with good internal controls. Even with the laws we have, the company broke some . This will be prosecuted.

On a side note, we had our Minsky moment with Crypto

Yeah, sure, the lack of internal control, at least the legal sort, was nothing short of spectacular. I'm not sure if I would characterise the board as cops. The corporate governance, including the board, is a framework for self-regulation.

I wouldn't be surprised if some LPs sue their GPs for negligence or worse. I suspect that this story may have a long tail.

[fastupslowdown]

Yeah, sure, the lack of internal control, at least the legal sort, was nothing short of spectacular. I'm not sure if I would characterise the board as cops. The corporate governance, including the board, is a framework for self-regulation.

I wouldn't be surprised if some LPs sue their GPs for negligence or worse. I suspect that this story may have a long tail.

never said the board of directors served as "cops". You've mis-read/mis-interpreted

[Chik]

never said the board of directors served as "cops". You've mis-read/mis-interpreted

Fair enough.

[vertical_doug]

This is probably the best thing you will read on the subject of FTX and it is CME testimony in front of House Ag Committee on the problems with the FTX Clearing House model. (LedgerX)

It is very concise and to the point.
https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam...-committee.pdf

This is nitroglycerin.

https://ledgerx.com/

[fastupslowdown]

This is probably the best thing you will read on the subject of FTX and it is CME testimony in front of House Ag Committee on the problems with the FTX Clearing House model. (LedgerX)

It is very concise and to the point.
https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam...-committee.pdf

This is nitroglycerin.

https://ledgerx.com/

this is not a new comment by me, but the wrong committee is handling this. agriculture?

[fastupslowdown]

house agricultural hearing on crypto

[fastupslowdown]

https://news.bitcoin.com/cme-groups-...-met-in-march/

Why would I deploy a model that’s going to introduce risk to the system? Of course I’m not going to deploy your model.

Duffy then said that SBF turned him down flat out and the CME Group CEO told the former FTX CEO: “You know what? You’re a fraud. You’re an absolute fraud. You are supposedly worth $26 billion and you’re an altruist. If you are an altruist at $26 billion, how come there’s not a $10 billion donation going to someone right at this moment in time?”

[Chik]

This is probably the best thing you will read on the subject of FTX and it is CME testimony in front of House Ag Committee on the problems with the FTX Clearing House model. (LedgerX)

It is very concise and to the point.
https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam...-committee.pdf

This is nitroglycerin.

https://ledgerx.com/

Hysterical.

[Chik]

never said the board of directors served as "cops". You've mis-read/mis-interpreted

Out of curiosity, what were you disagreeing with when you brought up cops?

[fastupslowdown]

Out of curiosity, what were you disagreeing with when you brought up cops?

I never said the board of directors serves the role of cops, they serve the role of adult supervision, the regulators are the cops

[Chik]

I never said the board of directors serves the role of cops, they serve the role of adult supervision, the regulators are the cops

I know you didn't say that the board = cops. You said that already. I'm referring to your preceding post when you disagreed with the order, which is when you brought up cops. I didn't mentioned cops at all. Looking back, I'm not clear on what order you had in mind, or thought I had in mind. If you were referring to my mention of external oversight, then I didn't mean regulators but a board consisting of non-executives, most of whom representing investors. What did you have in mind?

[vertical_doug]

house agricultural hearing on crypto

I don't think so. When you look at the history of the CME, it was founded in 1848. It has been instrumental in allowing producers/consumers to offset risk for product- whether it wheat, corn, soy, edible oils, live cattle, lean hogs. I grew up in farm country in Minnesota and AM radio always had a finance report from the board with ag prices.

The CME Span system used for margining is state of the art globally.

https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/agr....html#overview

The thing crypto forgets is the underlying has no real valuation? Why is it worth anything?

With Commodities, equities, fixed income, other deriviatives on these underlyings, it makes some sense pricing. I don't see a valuation model for any crypto that makes any sense. It's just ends up being a mania and liquidity game.

(On a side note, the reason Hillary Clinton is one of the greatest futures traders ever, is her broker refco, was also the broker for Tyson)

[fastupslowdown]

I don't think so. When you look at the history of the CME, it was founded in 1848. It has been instrumental in allowing producers/consumers to offset risk for product- whether it wheat, corn, soy, edible oils, live cattle, lean hogs. I grew up in farm country in Minnesota and AM radio always had a finance report from the board with ag prices.

The CME Span system used for margining is state of the art globally.

https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/agr....html#overview

The thing crypto forgets is the underlying has no real valuation? Why is it worth anything?

With Commodities, equities, fixed income, other deriviatives on these underlyings, it makes some sense pricing. I don't see a valuation model for any crypto that makes any sense. It's just ends up being a mania and liquidity game.

with central bank issued currency you at least know you taxes are paid in the currency and the government pays salaries and contracts in the currency. that gives it a certain value and viability

[Chik]

I don't think so. When you look at the history of the CME, it was founded in 1848. It has been instrumental in allowing producers/consumers to offset risk for product- whether it wheat, corn, soy, edible oils, live cattle, lean hogs. I grew up in farm country in Minnesota and AM radio always had a finance report from the board with ag prices.

The CME Span system used for margining is state of the art globally.

https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/agr....html#overview

The thing crypto forgets is the underlying has no real valuation? Why is it worth anything?

With Commodities, equities, fixed income, other deriviatives on these underlyings, it makes some sense pricing. I don't see a valuation model for any crypto that makes any sense. It's just ends up being a mania and liquidity game.

(On a side note, the reason Hillary Clinton is one of the greatest futures traders ever, is her broker refco, was also the broker for Tyson)

Yeah, spot on with regards to the history of the commodities market.

I think the fundamental challenge is not so much that cryptos do not have "real valuation" as the fact that there isn't a transparent, trustworthy, and regulated spot market for it that gives them "real valuation". Gold has no inherent value beyond industrial applications, but the transparent, regulated spot market, which views gold as a store of value, gives it a valuation. No proper spot market, no derivatives market.

Of course, unless it's a stablecoin, there is no asset backing it up, which provokes a certain rational and emotional reaction, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. (And I don't get the point of stablecoins.) But that's just me.

Anyway, I suppose there is the question about how / if a trustworthy, regulated market will list an asset like crypto. That's beyond my pay grade.