Terror in the NC piedmont

[AngryScientist]

I live in a desert housing development which is mostly 55+, but it's not a requirement. These are older folks, at least as old as me, that are calling for our POA (like an HOA) to put on a rally challenging the 2022 Governor and Senatorial results. I already sent a precisely worded email to the POA board telling them that it would be a poor decision for a non-profit to sponsor such a thing. I'm not sure what age group would form a militia, certainly not the folks in my neighborhood, but they still echo sentiments you hear from fringe groups. When I walk my neighborhood, I can't go to more than 2 or 3 houses without seeing an FJB flag flying.

I'd move.

[echappist]

Yeah, these guys stopped being yahoos a while ago. I don't know when the transition occurs from guys with guns to paramilitary organization, but I'd say there are some groups past that point.

That armed stand-off vs Bureau of Land Management seemed to be when these paramilitary organizations really began flexing.

And that group ended (the Bundys et al) received some royal kid glove treatment.

[72gmc]

When plans are made and enacted, they’re no longer extremists, they’re domestic terrorists. Not vandalism, terrorism.

[gregl]

I'd move.

Until very recently, that would have been my reaction too. Then the 20-something daughter of a good friend pointed out that my strategy was a win for the right wing extremists. Moderates and progressives seem (to my observation) to shy away from directly engaging the right wing extremists. That only emboldens them. So I’m going to agree with bigbill’s approach of direct, logical, polite engagement.

Greg

[echappist]

When plans are made and enacted, they’re no longer extremists, they’re domestic terrorists. Not vandalism, terrorism.

There's a contrast between how the Germans are labeling the Reichbürger conspirators vs. how outlets in the U.S. characterize all the loonies in the U.S. (Jan 6 conspirators, people who conspired to kidnap Gov. Whitmer, et al.). Namely, the Germans are not afraid to pull their punches and called out the putsch conspirators exactly as they ought to be called, which is "terrorists".

To whit, from Deutsch Welle (the government-funded broadcaster), this subheading

A hereditary prince and co-leader of a right-wing terror cell was plotting to overthrow the German government. How did a minor member of a noble family go from real estate to the center of an extremist plot?

[echappist]

Well, it seems that it has been a discussion among certain groups for some time and it is only we normal folks who have been less aware...as to yahoos, there could be random ones but that isn't quite as scary as the ones who collectively have been discussing it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...hwest-attacks?

I don't know if the NYT has covered this, but the WaPo certainly hasn't

A bit lacking on the part of WaPo that a foreign publication would cover this before the former did...

[vertical_doug]

I don't know if the NYT has covered this, but the WaPo certainly hasn't

A bit lacking on the part of WaPo that a foreign publication would cover this before the former did...

Not really that surprising considering the politics of The Guardian.
Sadly, I think for US Media there is what I call 'Gunfire fatigue'/ just more gunfire, what to report, what not to report. . .

I find foreign publications and the broader public for this matter, like to highlight guns and shooting in the US with some moral indignation.

[bigbill]

Until very recently, that would have been my reaction too. Then the 20-something daughter of a good friend pointed out that my strategy was a win for the right wing extremists. Moderates and progressives seem (to my observation) to shy away from directly engaging the right wing extremists. That only emboldens them. So I’m going to agree with bigbill’s approach of direct, logical, polite engagement.

Greg

Thanks. I see too much of "I think you're wrong, and I'll tell you so, and then I'm leaving" in our society. I had a neighbor raise her voice with me about an HOA issue that had resulted from an unlawful and unenforceable rule they had pulled out of their ass. I countered with why it was unlawful and the HOA had no jurisdiction over the matter, but she wanted to yell at me instead of presenting a reason. If I learned anything in grad school, it's this; I'm sure I am wrong on occasion, and I'm cool with someone telling me so, but they better support their answer. It seems that volume and shaming on social media have replaced spirited discussion.

Unfortunately I've seen this forum follow our new societal norms.

[j44ke]

I don't know if the NYT has covered this, but the WaPo certainly hasn't

A bit lacking on the part of WaPo that a foreign publication would cover this before the former did...

This is my neighbor at work. He's the US editor for the Guardian. They are being aggressive on US news reporting, because they feel there is space to be had there.

[Mabouya]

Between the Jackpot (The Peripheral) and The Road, one could begin to think of going off the grid before the grid goes off.

In that case, I'm going to need a different basement.

The one I have now is a walk-out, with a bunch of windows, so there's no way I'd be able to keep some of my neighbors locked up down there for future consumption.

[bigbill]

There are off-grid communities within 10-20 miles of my house. Most just want to be left alone, and some are moving every two weeks because they're on BLM land. There is one house I ride past that has a wall made of water totes. Many hundred totes stacked two high surrounding about four acres of property. A tote is 4x4x4' and filled with water. I talked to the guy, he is more concerned with nuclear war than anarchy. Water is an excellent shield against radiation. We also have the trailer park where Terry Nichols and Timothy McVey lived, so there's that.

People living off-grid here would be homeless in other parts of the county. They typically have an old RV trailer and a vehicle that runs well enough to haul water and move the house occasionally. If they have kids, they're likely "home schooled" which means they are mostly feral and never get an education. There are no easy answers for these folks and their children. This area is turning into a snowbird landing spot, so a bunch of 55+ people who have already raised their kids elsewhere, don't really have a dog in the fight, so we continue to have some of the worst schools in the country. Uneducated and poor, and unfortunately many affected are Native American.

[j44ke]

Gerrymandered school tax districts like those 55 and older communities in AZ should be eliminated. The idea that age somehow makes the education and welfare of children none of your concern is the ultimate civic cynicism.

Or we could just round those oldsters up and put them on an ice floe.

[robin3mj]

There are off-grid communities within 10-20 miles of my house. Most just want to be left alone, and some are moving every two weeks because they're on BLM land. There is one house I ride past that has a wall made of water totes. Many hundred totes stacked two high surrounding about four acres of property. A tote is 4x4x4' and filled with water. I talked to the guy, he is more concerned with nuclear war than anarchy. Water is an excellent shield against radiation. We also have the trailer park where Terry Nichols and Timothy McVey lived, so there's that.

People living off-grid here would be homeless in other parts of the county. They typically have an old RV trailer and a vehicle that runs well enough to haul water and move the house occasionally. If they have kids, they're likely "home schooled" which means they are mostly feral and never get an education. There are no easy answers for these folks and their children. This area is turning into a snowbird landing spot, so a bunch of 55+ people who have already raised their kids elsewhere, don't really have a dog in the fight, so we continue to have some of the worst schools in the country. Uneducated and poor, and unfortunately many affected are Native American.

Just finished Cheap Land Colorado and would recommend it to anyone. The author could easily have passed judgement on these people living off grid but he more or less reports it as he sees and presents them simply as people.

[vertical_doug]

Just finished Cheap Land Colorado and would recommend it to anyone. The author could easily have passed judgement on these people living off grid but he more or less reports it as he sees and presents them simply as people.

But Bill this is partially your area of expertise. First the EMP probably fries the few electronics they have, and if anyone is using solar power, that is problem fried.
Even if the radiation doesn't get you, the nuclear winter probably will.

The only people that can probably make it are the ones with the nuclear bunkers in New Zealand fully stocked underground with two years food supply. But most of those are probably off-shore billionaires, so chances are they are in California, New York, Dubai, London, Tokyo, SHanghai when it hits and get caught out.

[rwsaunders]

Apparently 2 similar incidents and 4 other attacks were reported in the PNW a few days before the incidents in NC, but perhaps the events didn’t make the national news as the outages weren’t as extensive.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/12/...-are-unsolved/

[bigbill]

But Bill this is partially your area of expertise. First the EMP probably fries the few electronics they have, and if anyone is using solar power, that is problem fried.
Even if the radiation doesn't get you, the nuclear winter probably will.

The only people that can probably make it are the ones with the nuclear bunkers in New Zealand fully stocked underground with two years food supply. But most of those are probably off-shore billionaires, so chances are they are in California, New York, Dubai, London, Tokyo, SHanghai when it hits and get caught out.

The house has been on the market several times, and I looked through the pictures. The house has high-end solar panels, the kind mounted on poles with servo motors to change their position. The photos showed an underground bunker with dozens of batteries and a 10K watt generator run on propane. I think the biggest protection is not having anything worth blowing up in a war. Vegas is two hours and a mountain range away, and PHX is three hours away. Both have air force bases. Only an air burst would affect this area. We have a big Mormon presence, if they're good, they'll have several months of larder.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...91814009_zpid/

[bigbill]

Gerrymandered school tax districts like those 55 and older communities in AZ should be eliminated. The idea that age somehow makes the education and welfare of children none of your concern is the ultimate civic cynicism.

Or we could just round those oldsters up and put them on an ice floe.

In Mohave County, which is the fifth largest county in the US, with a population of 220K, gerrymandering isn't really an issue. The biggest issues impacting the local schools are lack of quality educators, very little parent interaction, inability to keep Indian Reservation schools open, and the fact that students spend more than two hours a day on school buses servicing rural areas.

I'm all about 55+ communities, we are just in the unfortunate position of an area with school-age kids and a bunch of older folks here for the winter. We are snowbirds now, but we both teach at the local community college.

[vertical_doug]

There's a contrast between how the Germans are labeling the Reichbürger conspirators vs. how outlets in the U.S. characterize all the loonies in the U.S. (Jan 6 conspirators, people who conspired to kidnap Gov. Whitmer, et al.). Namely, the Germans are not afraid to pull their punches and called out the putsch conspirators exactly as they ought to be called, which is "terrorists".

To whit, from Deutsch Welle (the government-funded broadcaster), this subheading

In this case, you have a face to put on the enemy and it becomes easy. So far, no one in the US has been arrested so it is still a faceless movement.

However, having said that, when you have the loonies MTG and Bannon saying they'd been armed on Jan 6 and not have lost, you know the next time around will be worse in the US.

[72gmc]

However, having said that, when you have the loonies MTG and Bannon saying they'd been armed on Jan 6 and not have lost, you know the next time around will be worse in the US.

I was going to say -- we have faces, we're just treating them with much more respect than they show to us.

[BBB]

Not really that surprising considering the politics of The Guardian.
Sadly, I think for US Media there is what I call 'Gunfire fatigue'/ just more gunfire, what to report, what not to report. . .

I find foreign publications and the broader public for this matter, like to highlight guns and shooting in the US with some moral indignation.

Surely on-going gun violence is an issue involving some degree of morality?

Biden seems to think so (sorry for the Guardian link):

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ok-anniversary