Any American Ex-Pats here? We are heavily considering...

[Mabouya]

We're tired of NYC living, we do like beaches.

Martin,

I don't mean to be snarky, and I'm sure you and your wife have thought of this, but just the same, I'll say it:

There's a lot more to the US than NYC, plenty of it with beaches, so it isn't clear to me why you aren't considering elsewhere in the US first.

If I were you I'd think about putting all my stuff in storage and either buy or rent a great cruising vehicle (at the low end of cost either sedan or minivan, or at the upper end an RV) and spend a few months exploring the US (and maybe Canada, while you're at it). I'd guess that you'll come across some spots that don't interest you, but surely there will be others that you really like. If at the end of a few months you conclude that there's really nothing in the country for you, then you can consider elsewhere.

Good Luck in your search.

[sk_tle]

Anecdotally, it seems like most of the expats I've met aren't overly immersed in the local community. They largely stay within the expat community of English speakers. Of course, it could be that those that do embrace the local community don't much cross paths with those that don't.

I think this is mostly a native english speaker type of thing because you can find someone speaking at least a little bit your language nearly everywhere. You have less incentive to mix up with the locals. Yet it is not exclusive to them, I've seen some fb groups about french people here in Andalucía who keep seeking for advices on any kind of professionnal that speak french so I guess they don't bother learning spanish and mix up with the local community. I find this really strange. I understand it can be useful having someone like a lawyer who speak your language to avoid misinterpretations but when it comes to finding a hairdresser or sports coach, come on, learn the local language. I myself try to avoid the french/expat specific community/events as much as possible and only join events with expats where the point is to actually mix up with the locals like language exchange meetings.

Living among an expat community is mostly like living with a bunch of spoiled kids, it is nice to exchange with people who have traveled because they usually a more open view of the world but if you are living in a country you should like its people and culture as well otherwise there is no point.

Additionnally I am glad I didn't wait for retirement to move. Retired expats are usually targets in poorer countries because all the local scammer see are naive people with too much cash and are too old to learn the language, mix up with the local and know who you can be confident with and what/who you should avoid.

[Saab2000]

I spent a lot of time from 1988 until the end of 2003 living outside the US, most of that time in Switzerland. That's a pretty 'perfect' place and with that out of the way I have to say that no place is perfect. If you think running away from the US will suddenly free you of the troubles that face the US you will quickly find that every place has challenges and many are parallel to what we have in the US, just in a different form.

That said, it was the best experience of my life getting to live in places other than the US and I hope to again one day.

As others mentioned, be careful of the expat community. Many folks can't or won't try to integrate into society. I married a Swiss woman and we lived outside of Zurich. After a while I did start going to the American Club of Zurich monthly meeting which was fun but I was not part of that community for the most part. It was a group of people who in any other situation wouldn't be natural drinking buddies. But outside of their comfort zone gravitated towards each other because of a common US experience and a common language.

Go visit the places you imagine yourself but don't go as a tourist. Like someone said, rent a place and live life. You will indeed find that things you take for granted in the US aren't possible there and vice versa. It takes mental flexibility to thrive. Simple things like brands you're used to in the store are different and conducting transactions are different and can be frustrating if you're not familiar with how things work. It's amazing how quickly you can feel out of sorts in a new place. Like as soon as you leave the airport.

I think the OP mentioned Panama City. Go for a few weeks and explore. But not as a tourist. Just see if it's for you and imagine yourself living there.

[rec head]

Thanks for the thread. I don't have anything to add but have the same questions. Last year we were supposed to do a few scouting trips looking at new locations. That didn't work out. What was solidified was that we are pretty good at doing our hobbies and keeping busy.

[rwsaunders]

Reach out to Dave Thompson, who has spent/spends quite a bit of time in Mexico. I think that Mexico actually allows Dave to come back too!

[sk_tle]

Go visit the places you imagine yourself but don't go as a tourist. Like someone said, rent a place and live life. You will indeed find that things you take for granted in the US aren't possible there and vice versa. It takes mental flexibility to thrive. Simple things like brands you're used to in the store are different and conducting transactions are different and can be frustrating if you're not familiar with how things work. It's amazing how quickly you can feel out of sorts in a new place. Like as soon as you leave the airport.

Also, dealing with a foreign administration can be headache inducing at times.

[j44ke]

Also, dealing with a foreign administration can be headache inducing at times.

Yes, in the Czech Republic, you had to deal with the expat police for renewing residency permits. It was definitely a no-joking affair. Not very nice. We were lucky. My wife's firm had a fixer/negotiator. We would go with him each time, and he would usher us through the process. For other people, including other Americans, it was a mysterious and sometimes expensive affair. When the US blocked Czechs from visiting the US without a visa after Havel refused to corroborate the Bush administration's Iraqi Embassy - 911 conspirators Prague meeting fabrication, we were no longer able to do our paperwork in Prague. We had to go to a CR embassy outside of the country, renew our papers and then return through a border control point. Felt straight out of the Iron Curtain era, basically because the allowed border points were from that era. Once we went to Austria and once to Germany. Not much of a fan of Austrian border guards.

So you may want to escape US b.s., but it will come and find you.

[Tom]

There's a lot of places i'd not mind moving to but the trepidation is a lot along the lines of what's been mentioned above, that one government gets into a tiff about another government and all of a sudden the local government does something totally within their rights and I wind up with no rights any more. Like "nice place you got there, we think we'd like it for ourselves" and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Dave Thompson]

Martin, I spent 6 years as a half-year winter expat in a village in Mexico, owned a house, paid electric and water bills, the whole thing.

I’d be happy to discuss any and all aspects of my experiences if you’d care to. PM or e-mail is best.

Dave

GTFOH.

This is a daunting prospect for the Wife and I to entertain and I am looking for legitimate resources with which to evaluate the possibilities.

We're looking at Belize & Panama, Panama City atm... nevertheless nothing is heavily weighted as yet.

Thanks in advance!

[htwoopup]

Also, this may sound like you won’t bang up into it but you need to check each country you are thinking about...taxes. As an American, you will owe all of your normal taxes to the US no matter where you live (it is one of the few countries to tax its citizens no matter where they are and where their income is from. The US has tax treaties with a good number of countries which makes it so that you don’t have to double-pay taxes (on the same things but sometimes the country taxes different things than the US does). What becomes really important is how many days in country does that country consider necessary for a tax filing (even if you don’t actually owe) and how many days and how much money in what kind of financial institution require some form to be filed. I know it sounds like it won’t matter but I got tripped up in Canada because I didn’t file a form (that I didn’t owe anything on it was just a for their information form). I didn’t have to pay a fine because I was new so I got a one time free pass. My wife, however, is a Canadian who has not lived in Canada for 35 years and she had to pay a fine. All because we keep a rather small checking & savings account at a local bank in each country and we were 2 days over the number of days stay in the country for this to matter. Canada counted the days in residence differently over a year for “filing in our country purposes” than the US did..by 2 days. And it is not like Canada and the US is such an esoteric combination which is why I am suggesting you look into this rather mundane aspect just to CYA in case you are in a more esoteric combination.

[j44ke]

Not arguing against doing this mind you! One of the best experiences in my life, living in Prague. A whole handful of super good friends came out of it. Czech, US, Slovak, England, etc. Highly recommend living somewhere else if you get a chance.

[UnfilteredDregs]

it isn't clear to me why you aren't considering elsewhere in the US first.

It's our opinion that there's a massive far-right destructive movement taking place in the US and we want no part of it. I've traveled extensively. Was in the US Navy. I've lived in the South, the Southwest, the West Coast, the Northwest.

I appreciate the question, I wasn't clear enough.

[Will Neide]

Not arguing against doing this mind you! One of the best experiences in my life, living in Prague. A whole handful of super good friends came out of it. Czech, US, Slovak, England, etc. Highly recommend living somewhere else if you get a chance.

Except New Jersey. Just sayin'

[Ras72]

It's our opinion that there's a massive far-right destructive movement taking place in the US and we want no part of it. I've traveled extensively. Was in the US Navy. I've lived in the South, the Southwest, the West Coast, the Northwest.

I appreciate the question, I wasn't clear enough.

I certainly don't mean to argue - we all have our dreams - but I'd look hard at myself if this is your motivator.
You're seeing a destructive movement that happens everywhere. Destruction of what you value can be found anywhere. When/if you move, some form of destructive movement will be present; you'll just be blind to it. Given some time in a new place, you'll find it there too.
We always find what we seek.
Where I'm currently located (many retired expats) I see some MAJOR destruction in the local culture. It's not political and it's not surface level but it's there. To the point, I'd be very concerned about the next 10 plus years (if I was emotional invested in this place).
Again, not to conflict with your ideas but to give you a perspective you asking for.

[Caleb Evenson]

It's our opinion that there's a massive far-right destructive movement taking place in the US and we want no part of it.

I've led a hell of a privileged life, so when I reached that same conclusion years ago, I committed to returning home and countering that rightward shift within my state to which I had contributed by leaving at 20 years old. Now I feel stuck here (paycheck to paycheck, among other things), despite equally committed to that mission. This is a university town, and one of the more liberal of the state, though still very conservative. Each time allies/friends move outta state for improved living, I'm happy for them but sad for the rest of us still here. Your intentions evoke a similar experience for me. I'll be happy for you if you find somewhere more ideal, but happier if you can find contentment staying and contributing within this country I characterize as the most belligerent of all countries.

You're seeing a destructive movement that happens everywhere. Destruction of what you value can be found anywhere. When/if you move, some form of destructive movement will be present; you'll just be blind to it. Given some time in a new place, you'll find it there too.
We always find what we seek.

While for lack of information I don't presume the destruction Martin perceives is present everywhere, this does remind me that many changes here in the US are parallel to many places across the globe, so I'd suggest a central issue may be capitalism's grip on the world. Reminds me of an article from last summer - "Empire of Same".

Anyway, a friend in his 40s (who identifies as libertarian but despises most libertarians and seems to actually lean left on most things) similarly frustrated with this state and country often says he's considering Uruguay, so maybe look into there. I only know two people from Uruguay - a retired man and his son. The old man lives with the son and his family. They live a couple blocks away, have been customers, and stand out to me as high quality individuals in the community - patient, thoughtful, encouraging, that sorta stuff. Not that such necessarily means anything about Uruguay, of course.

[Mabouya]

Other than Canada, and these days less so, the US, I wouldn't say that there are too many shining examples of democracy and good governance in the western hemisphere.

Chances are, if you leave the US you're going to be going to someplace significantly worse, unless you're really going far.

[ElvisMerckx]

Other than Canada, and these days less so, the US, I wouldn't say that there are too many shining examples of democracy and good governance in the western hemisphere.

Chances are, if you leave the US you're going to be going to someplace significantly worse, unless you're really going far.

This rings true for me. I spent 29 months living abroad in two different countries in Western Europe. Returning to the States made me really appreciate and love it. The opportunities, the people, the abundance, the plumbing, and the general lack of low-to-mid level corruption makes this a great place to live.

[UnfilteredDregs]

Thanks all, just wanted to divulge the motivation and I'd appreciate it if we left it at that considering there's a more specific thread already on the subject.

And I do value all the input here. I appreciate the pragmatic skepticism.

[j44ke]

I think our friends have it worked out. About the time they are tired of their plumber in Puerto Rico connecting the gas line to the water line, they come back to NYS where the plumber connects the water line to the gas line.

[Chik]

Also, be open to the possibility that it might take a couple of years to settle in and find your rhythm. I had that experience once, but it may have been partly because I went in thinking that it will take only a week or two because I had been a regular visitor (at least twice a year) for many years prior and already had an existing network of local friends. It probably made the 2-year jet lag seem more challenging because I hadn't expected to have one at all.