Basic Tig

[EnginCycles]

To create settings on the machine that mandates the pedal be "floored" for the majority of the pass takes away the ability to react, leaving only elements that have less effect, such as filler rate, to aid control.


rody

You are right. I should not have said floored. Maybe almost floored. If I am literally looking for more heat when I start I will turn it up say 10 amps for the situation. Always want that little extra.

[Rody]

Always want that little extra.

That's what she said too, oh well, guess we'll always be striving for a bit more

r

[Peter E]

THANKS! wow, thats more info than I can handle right now. I work as an industrial designer. I spend a lot of time in the workshop with all kind of materials but very rarely weld. One of my colleagues is a decent welder and he will help me out, we just need to find some time.

We design the 3M helmets, got about every model they make so I guess I'll stick with one of those. Got the tools for sharpening the tungsten.

Someone mentioned using a respirator. Hardly ever seen one wearing one while welding frames. Is it for sharpening the tungsten or when do you use it? Got good ventilation. I think we got a helmet with fresh air somewhere but I would prefer using the lighter ones.

again, Thanks!

[afwalker]

Low profile filter as much to cut down fogging on the inside as to limit breathing nasty stuff. Tig is nothing like stick, phew:(
Miller ML00894 Lpr-100 Respirator W/Filters
Super awesome thread!
cheers
andy walker

[EnginCycles]

Hey Rody how is this for heat control? That tube was about .5mm from the edge. I admit it was not floored during that....

[Tyler Evans]

I get these questions a lot.. It's a little tough to get people started remotely, but here are some excerpts from an email the other day :: I was asked what welder and what settings for welding Ti. It's pretty much the same for steel of similar wall, at least it's applicable. I use the same exact setup for both with excellent results.

"I recommend a Miller Maxstar 200 welder because of it's superior low end performance.

Welding rod in Ti is .030" to .045", stainless is .045", steel .035"

I use an air cooled wp-17 torch.

Argon flow is 60-70

45v116 lens

#12 53n87 ceramic cup.

1/16" ceriated tungsten electrode

I do not pulse weld bikes.

_________________________________


Here is a good place to start:

Let's say you are welding a ti tube with the thickness of .035"….

Set the TIG welder to 70 amps max.

Make sure you are using pure Argon purge gas.

Use a larger gas torch cup with a lens. Gas coverage is the most important thing. A bad purge is a bad weld and will fail.

Use 1/16" Ceriated tungsten ground parallel to 30 degrees to a sharp point.

Use .045" 6Al/4V Ti welding rod.

Strike an arc, make a puddle (about 3/16" to 1/4" diameter) and add the wire close to the middle of the puddle. If you touch the wire to the edge of the puddle it will freeze there. If you go too close to the center of the puddle you will touch the tungsten and possibly shock the shit out of yourself (most likely scenario).

Make sure to set the post flow on your machine to around 15 seconds and hold the torch over the area that you just welded until it is below about 700 degrees, a little bit after it goes from glowing to not glowing, if you look closely you can see the crystalline structure forming, that is about when the ti stops bonding with the surrounding environment and it is okay to move on.

Proceed as if welding steel.

Hope this helps…"


_________________________________

Unlike Drew I set the welder to the max I will need when welding a frame, which I find to be 70 amps. I like to have (and use) the full range of my pedal movement, my foot moves up and down quite a bit. I find that if I turn it up too high then I lose some of the delicacy that I need at the lower end, both in the beginning of the weld (as I ramp up) and at the end as I am ramping down. It is a delicate dance, both hands, one foot, and a welding helmet....

The hardest thing in the very beginning is actually being able to see the molten puddle. This sounds weird, but it is true. See it's edge, see it's middle... Also, seeing the the electrode and the filler rod is the next thing to focus on. Then, once you start adding the rod to the puddle.... oh boy. Don't tell them I taught you a thing.

There are so many nuances as to how far to stick out the tungsten and under what circumstances, how far your tungsten is from the metal, how and when to adjust your argon flow, backpurging, torch angle, rod angle, how to hold the rod, distance covered, what filler rod size for what joint.... I would just take a class honestly. We are just going to give you performance anxiety. It takes seconds to show someone how to do it with the correct setup in front of you, it will take a month this way.... maybe more. Definitely more.

All the best to you though. It is a great skill to have, at least I have found it pretty handy.

[fortyfour]

Someone mentioned using a respirator. Hardly ever seen one wearing one while welding frames. Is it for sharpening the tungsten or when do you use it? Got good ventilation. I think we got a helmet with fresh air somewhere but I would prefer using the lighter ones.

That was me mentioning the respirator. If I ever get anything, it's sinus trouble with dust/particulate. I use a 3M #7502 series respirator (the silicone version as it irritates the skin less when it is hot) w/ their #2297 series particulate filters:



It fits snuggly beneath my helmet (Jackson). The particulate is not as bad as stick welding, but it is still present - this in combination with good ventilation is a good idea IMO. Up to you, but I always recommend them as you can get a different set of filters for brazing and if you are grinding, or using emory, you should be wearing one so it's a good thing to have on hand.

You only get one pair of lungs. So protect your faculties. That's how I see it anyways.

[Mike Mcdermid]

That was me mentioning the respirator. If I ever get anything, it's sinus trouble with dust/particulate. I use a 3M #7502 series respirator (the silicone version as it irritates the skin less when it is hot) w/ their #2297 series particulate filters:



It fits snuggly beneath my helmet (Jackson). The particulate is not as bad as stick welding, but it is still present - this in combination with good ventilation is a good idea IMO. Up to you, but I always recommend them as you can get a different set of filters for brazing and if you are grinding, or using emory, you should be wearing one so it's a good thing to have on hand.

You only get one pair of lungs. So protect your faculties. That's how I see it anyways.

Now you probably know these exist but have you tried the positive pressure air fed masks keeps the nasties out and cool in summer?

[afwalker]

Here's to the V-Salon as THE place to talk about building bikes!
This is quite some thread. I'm getting performance anxiety for the op! Sort of like drinking from a fire hose.
I do hope Peter E will put some practice pictures up, nothing but learning will come of it.
I'm a bit surprised at that argon flow rate Tyler, 60-70 cfh is like 35 l/min. Obviously your welds benefit, do others use about the same?
cheers
andy walker

[Jake Rosenfeld]

Such an awesome thread......something for everyone here.

Its not worth me trying to re-cover whats been said but I would like to add for the OP's benefit a way to practice something that may or may not have been touched on and that is joining dissimilar thicknesses.

An important part of the welding process is self critiquing each weld. Every welder does it wether they realize it or not. As a new welder this can be hard to do working with some of the thinnest walls and some of the most important welds you could ever attempt.

I'm not sure what size welder you have access to but if you could get some square tubing scraps of both 1/4" and .083" wall thickness and then practice putting those together you would see in an exaggerated manner how to approach the sort of joint that will be found at headtube, bottom bracket and dropout.
You will see how to use heat, torch angle and speed as well as rod angle and feed rate to 'balance' this type of joint. This will help you as you start to attempt this on a miniature scale with bike type tubes. Mild steel is a great way to get some torch time under your belt and may seem to move faster as minimal cleaning is needed to produce a nice quality weld. As you move to bike tubes more attention will need to be paid to joint prep but as a newbie this can be the most tedious part of the process that seems like it takes up all the time you've set aside to practice.

anyway, it's been fun to read what everyone has contributed to the thread. thanks.

[bastl]

...I'm a bit surprised at that argon flow rate Tyler, 60-70 cfh is like 35 l/min. Obviously your welds benefit, do others use about the same?
cheers
andy walker

35 l/min?? I'm surprised too. I'm not a pro, but for Titanium frames I use a #12 Cup and between 10-14 l/min (Edit: I get no coloring of Ti-welds with this setup). This is only for the thorch, no back purge included because I use a second bottle for back purge.

A small hint from my side: For TIG welding of steel (also Ti) one can start with 40 amps/mm(wall thickness) as a rule of thumb.

[fortyfour]

Now you probably know these exist but have you tried the positive pressure air fed masks keeps the nasties out and cool in summer?

I have not had the opportunity to try one, however I do know about them but unfortunately they are a tad bit out of my affordability range.

[Jake Rosenfeld]

I have not had the opportunity to try one, however I do know about them but unfortunately they are a tad bit out of my affordability range.

I have one. it works awesome for welding big heavy all day long type projects but with the amount of on and off with the helmet for tigging bikes it would be a PITA at best.

the belt pack is cumbersome and awkward and sits right over your butt making the day after taco night a potential hazard.....

also, the side windows are great for seeing and moving around with the helmet on but it doesn't do much to block reflected light, I guess you could tape them up.

Now that I've given such a rave review if anyone is interested i'll dig it out charge it up and sell the whole maryann for a K or less

[Peter E]

OK, here we go.
First try. 1.5mm plate, 60 Amps, 3/32 tungsten. Thought I had the argon flow at 16 but noticed it was 9 when i turned of the machine. Cup is a 6 (we got a brand new tig and I just found out that the old cups did not fit).

Working from right to left, starting at the top. I guess a larger cup and more argon next time.

15.jpg



Second try. 0.7mm plate.
Amps at 35, everything else the same

07.jpg

Sorry about the quality of the pics.

[triathloner]

Duh moment, love this thread. I'm 44 and have been suffering short arm syndrome for a few years. Fired up the welder last night and actually used my cheaters under the helmet, it's a big difference. Why did I not think of it. Dumb sometimes. thanks for all the ideas I have overlooked.

[EnginCycles]

OK, here we go.
First try. 1.5mm plate, 60 Amps, 3/32 tungsten. Thought I had the argon flow at 16 but noticed it was 9 when i turned of the machine. Cup is a 6 (we got a brand new tig and I just found out that the old cups did not fit).

Working from right to left, starting at the top. I guess a larger cup and more argon next time.

15.jpg



Second try. 0.7mm plate.
Amps at 35, everything else the same

07.jpg

Sorry about the quality of the pics.

Remember when you are only running a bead you are starving the metal so it will be hard no matter what to get a perfectly clean bead. It is more to learn how to see the puddle.

Do not stick out the tungsten father than the opening of the cup. So a number six will allow you to have the tungsten out 6mm until it lacks coverage from the argon. I also bet that is a collet and not a gas lens (very common). Get a gas lens and a slightly larger cup. Turn the argon up to around 15-20. Tilt the plate up on a block and try to get the argon coming out of the cup to flow down onto the bead you just ran. It will help maintain the coverage as you move.

[sam]

Great thread, interesting read. could not come up at a better time, as I have started to research welders. Was looking to get a welder at end of this year, for some tools, machining type stuff, and start to practice to use it for frames. But do to a possible opportunity may be looking to buy mid summer, may have to work some more overtime at the night job so the bike shop can afford it, guess 17.5 hour days arent enough, haha. They are not cheap, but a few thousand is not really much for a professional tool, but after this farking cold winter I will be on a budget this year or should I say broke this year. But as I tell anyone who helps in the shop a good bike mechanic can not afford a cheap tool. But im not in a rush to buy, I will wait till after talking to my instructor this summer.

But I am curious what everyone thinks about the used welder market, do they have many issues and require pretty regular service, where buying local new is a big factor. I dont mind spending the money to get the right unit, but this is the wrong year to be spending money, so if used is a safe bet I would not mind saving the money. But I never want to regret the purchase, so if its better to buck up for new I will find a way to do it.

Also if you get an ac/dc machine, does it take away from the fine work capabilities of a dc only machine, does that question make sense? I guess what I am asking is that by asking the machine to do more things, does it mean it does each of those things less well?

Sorry to hijack

[afwalker]

^Go name brand if you go used. Tyler's recommendation of the Miller Maxstar 200 is a great one. AC lets you do aluminum, you will use more amps than with steel. I doubt the newer inverter welders lose anything ac/dc vs straight dc since the circuitry is probably the same just inactivated. If you can find a used name brand inverter go for it. The non-inverters may require a thorough going over before purchase. Bring an experienced welder with you to check it out. Welders seem to hold their value pretty well, so you may find peace of mind for a few more dollars new.
cheers
andy walker

[EnginCycles]

^Go name brand if you go used. Tyler's recommendation of the Miller Maxstar 200 is a great one. AC lets you do aluminum, you will use more amps than with steel. I doubt the newer inverter welders lose anything ac/dc vs straight dc since the circuitry is probably the same just inactivated. If you can find a used name brand inverter go for it. The non-inverters may require a thorough going over before purchase. Bring an experienced welder with you to check it out. Welders seem to hold their value pretty well, so you may find peace of mind for a few more dollars new.
cheers
andy walker

Andy I am sorry to be constantly dis-agreeing with you but I think just the opposite. An inverter machine is something you only want to buy new. A transformer machine can be fixed by ANY TECHNICIAN and they are bullet proof. I had to warranty my inverter (which took 1.5 years to get back because it could only be fixed by Miller) and I just bought a transformer Syncrowave in the mean time. Now I use the transformer for steel and projects and the inverter is dedicated to titanium. The settings are very similar but they are different torches so it is easier to leave them all set up.

Little motivation (all 175 amps of it):

[Rody]

"Everybody" wants inverter tech now and days cause they are small and have lots of fancy lights with more buttons and knobs to play with.

My Syncrowave 250DX is 20 years old and the only thing I've ever done to it is replace the electrode run in the torch cable at year 15, she's a peach. Since it's "old tech" you can get them pretty cheap, they just take a shit ton more room than the lunch boxes folks use today.


I'll see Drew's pic and give ya some non-pulsed, straight amperage, run it fast motivation for ya...
steel fork.JPG