Lots of sharp duds and a cool dude or two - ruined.

[Mabouya]

That's how fashion divides and supports, just like a push up bra. Artificial though it may be, it seeks to elevate those who wear it and diminish those who don't.

And IMO is driven, like those wear push-ups, by the insecurity of of the wearer.

Once long, long, ago I had a GF who before I met her was so worried about her B cup size that she got a boob job. She moved up a size, but was just as insecure as before. Except that now it wasn't about the absolute measurement, but whether or not people could tell that they weren't real.

F that. Wear what you like and live your life as you see fit. (even you're thinking of "hanging out" with our Middle Patent buddy)

[Nierman]

there's a funny (now) story about having a bottle or two thrown at me in Kansas one time (Aggieville, if any of you have been near KSU) because I was literally just in town from scandanavia and didn't have kansas-standard-kit -

just walking down the sidewalk to see a friend one sunny afternoon when a glass bottle went zinging by -

that was one of various moments that helped me learn that notion of context-appropriate-apparel ;)

Were you wearing crimson and blue? Standard Kansas kit that would get a bottle thrown at you in Aggieville.

[Diablo de Acero]

I figure if any of these young gentlemen are human they will be embarrassed to see themselves in pics fifteen years from now. It's just the curse of the trend follower. No matter what trend you follow. Unless you have a super ego. You can try justifying it, others will just see you for the poser you are.

[chasea]

This is the most interest convo around here in a while. To hell with everyone else. I don't care what you wear; you'll feel better if you think you look good.

Also, I'm now following that dog on Instagram.

[mjbabcock]

Reminds me a lot of these guys.


Similar motivations as well.

[mjbabcock]

Oh yeah. I'm guessing that bird doesn't give a rip about what the neighboring swallow thinks...as he shouldn't.

Rock whatever plumage you want.

[j44ke]

My grandfather always wore moleskin pants, some kind of plaid shirt, a gray LL Bean down vest and a Filson oil cloth jacket on the weekends he would take me fishing. They were his fishing clothes and my grandmother wouldn't let him bring them into the house any farther than the utility room off the garage, because she thought the clothes were too "rough" (this from a farmer's daughter.) He would be a hipster now though, and she might have to let him in at least as far as the kitchen.



I think the thing fashion does the best is sell people on nostalgia for an era or a sensation or an experience that is completely absent from their lives or may never have existed at all. For example, you can now buy your absolute favorite jeans that you've had for years and love so much that they are nearly in tatters without the boring annoyance of having to actually own a pair of jeans for years that you actually loved so much you actually wore them to tatters. Part of the reason that in use/misuse now the word "literally" has come to mean "for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true" instead of its original meaning of "exactly". Literally is now just a simulacrum of itself, so you can say "I literally wore these jeans to tatters" without saying that you actually did exactly that.

[theflashunc]

You do you.

Whatever that may be at any given time.

Living out here, I hear about the opposite end of the spectrum, those who wear the same type of clothing to work everyday to avoid "decision fatigue." The theory being that small decision cumulatively add up over the course of the day, and reducing wardrobe choices is a way to minimize exposure to this kind of draining decision making. Which is absurd, if you want to wear hoodies and jeans at the office, just do that and say you want to do that and don't rationalize it.

Express yourself however you want. For some, that's clearly clothing and more power to them.

[caleb]

In general Mike, I totally hear your post. Two of my buddies have mostly-stay-at-home childless wives who "curate" semiprofessional "lifestyle blogs." Basically, their job is to look cute as fitness bunnies, cooks, and homemakers, and present a lifestyle to the world that keeps people looking and desiring the image that they're creating. It's a really distorted view of their world though, because it totally cuts out the fact that all the stuff they're taking pictures of in their spare time is funded by their MD husbands and family money. I can't even look at their blogs because they're so utterly partial that they're fake.

Yet, I think the fake/genuine dichotomy is a dead end road, just like the masculine/nonmasculine road. Or at least I sure don't like where that line of reasoning ends up.

this kind of shit isn't masculine

I'm from far northern Minnesota, and I know some guys who are masculine in just about every classical sense of the word: they could build their own house, put a new transmission in their truck, operate a skid steer or feller, run a trap line, and outdrink just about anyone all in the same day. Guys who can really get shit done. I suspect you know some of these guys up in Maine.

And what do they look like? Paunchy, hairy, and clad in a stained Vikings sweatshirt. They don't wear Red Wing Iron Rangers down into the mines on the Range, they wear safety toe boots from Walmart. That's genuine, and it's masculine. But should that really be the standard for fashion?

I agree that putting a Marlboro Man jean jacket underneath a wool trench is ridiculous. I think we can say that without attaching that judgment to any greater concepts about the state of gender or genuineness in our society.

[Mabouya]

I think Kathy Griffin has been following this thread:

[Diablo de Acero]

[QUOTE]I think the thing fashion does the best is sell people on nostalgia for an era or a sensation or an experience that is completely absent from their lives or may never have existed at all. For example, you can now buy your absolute favorite jeans that you've had for years and love so much that they are nearly in tatters without the boring annoyance of having to actually own a pair of jeans for years that you actually loved so much you actually wore them to tatters. Part of the reason that in use/misuse now the word "literally" has come to mean "for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true" instead of its original meaning of "exactly". Literally is now just a simulacrum of itself, so you can say "I literally wore these jeans to tatters" without saying that you actually did exactly that.
/QUOTE]

I miss going sled riding with my brand new Levi's and leaving long blue streaks in the snow after they got a wet. That was the Flintstone's version of Pre-wash jeans.

[boxerboxer]

Fuck telling someone how to "be masculine", and fuck deciding someone hasn't had a hard life because of the close/haircut you see them sporting at the moment. There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting to dress like those dudes, but projecting all the baggage you carry about how a man should be is the weakest of bullshit. Strongly worded, but meant in friendship and without malice.

[x] Eh, not for me.

[ ] Eh, not for anyone.

[chasea]

You dudes are so far behind. All this work wear is over. New York City has gone full-on #healthgoth, which I swear was started by two guys in my neighborhood 3 or 4 years ago.

[Eric Estlund]

My take away-

"I am so successful I don't have to wear the trim black suit to work suckers!".

[hidayanra]

Fuck telling someone how to "be masculine", and fuck deciding someone hasn't had a hard life because of the close/haircut you see them sporting at the moment. There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting to dress like those dudes, but projecting all the baggage you carry about how a man should be is the weakest of bullshit. Strongly worded, but meant in friendship and without malice.

[x] Eh, not for me.

[ ] Eh, not for anyone.

#applause

[hidayanra]

My take away-

"I am so successful I don't have to wear the trim black suit to work suckers!".

Hooooo boy, that's a big part of Capitol "F" Fashion, and recall in the 80s/early90s at plenty of clubs, the paint splattered jeans that cost more than the next guy's suit?
Capitol F Fashion is (in my opinion) actually about differentiation, and having the social capitol to say that "my version of different is superior to your version of status quo", and the easiest way of doing that is to have a truck load of money and buy what ever is the trendiest outfit/car/apartment in whichever arrondissement/borough is currently hottest... etc.

but then again, my understanding of "why Fashion exists" at this point in my life **sociology content ahead** is so that "It exists to provide a constantly changing narrative for how we can differentiate one group from another group."
Simultaneously, we then define it so narrowly that only a small part of the population has access to it - via creation (make your own) or imitation (buying in) - and we now have a small moving target for one composite group with access to resources of either time/money/connections to be "better" or "in", while all others are "out of date", or "not in the IN crowd".

The role patriarchy/masculinism play in this is largely another topic, but I'll just mention,
When was the last time that men weren't considered to be "appropriately and well dressed" in black suit/tie/tux/etc for a red carpet event (white tie, white suit, evening wear exempted as to any significant scale this doesn't exist anymore)... and while there is "the black dress" for women, formal fashion for women isn't static in the way it is for men.

So anyway,

fashion is a strange animal, and after spending time/work around it, I'm largely of the opinion that FASHION is an artificial construct to promote otherization and social differentiation, with the subtextual focus being, "keeping those with fewer means and resources on the outside"


yeah, maybe I'm a socialist- but feel free to deconstruct the argument and prove me wrong ;)

I've spent years in the industry and my current status of living on the west coast, and then moving to Bend, OR probably can clue you in to the fact that I'm transitioning out.
I only have a couple clients I work with now, folks I've had a standing relationship with and still work with just here and there as they need. I don't miss it much, you don't need Fashion to be well dressed. My goal in dressing clients was to convey a visual notion of who you are, what you stand for, what you want, without having to talk to them - and clothes can do this.
Frankly, it is easier with a massive budget and putting anyone into bits from one of the famous houses makes the job quite a bit easier - but the same job can be done shopping at consignment shops, thrift stores, Nordstrom/Macy/where-ever - it just takes more effort, more design, and more intentionality.

well, that post got off track now didn't it?

[Eric Estlund]

The older (and more insulated) I get, the more interested I am in taste and style over fashion- at least in how I choose to use those words. That isn't a degeneration of fashion so much as a shift in how I choose to focus my time and efforts, and how I weight my outward appearance with my inner self picture.

My first post was tongue in cheek- I have a suit in the closet that might be black. I haven't seen it in a number of years, I doubt it fits me, and odds are good it isn't currently fashionable.

[Gattonero]

You dudes are so far behind. All this work wear is over. New York City has gone full-on #healthgoth, which I swear was started by two guys in my neighborhood 3 or 4 years ago.

What the hell is a "healthgoth"* and why everything seems to need an "#" before the word?


* since when goffs have been "healthy"? LOL

[s_curran]

I assume you dont go to Portland (ME) very much. But its full of lumbersexual (yes I said it) dudes right now. Grey jacket, dark jeans, long beards, big boots and slicked back hair seem the norm (all bought at GAP). They seem to think it makes them more "maine".

Its tough, I wonder if I look much different. I like to buy stuff that fits, and will last. I work in an office, so some meeting in the middle is in order. In all honesty I probably just look like a slob.

edit: that said, if I'm going to wear a jacket, I'll just dress up for real.

[hidayanra]

I assume you dont go to Portland (ME) very much. But its full of lumbersexual edit: that said, if I'm going to wear a jacket, I'll just dress up for real.

So is Seattle/Portland, and its happening in LA more than I'd expect.