The message here speaks volumes to me -

[monadnocky]

I have a relative - a man in his 40's now - who dresses immaculately, even when he's in a casual setting (such as with family, indoors, just kicking around). Every article of clothing he owns appears to be top-end, even tailored for his body. Even his casual T-shirts look to be bespoke. He's a cyclist as well, and looks as good on the bike as he does off.

When I was younger, I used to think that he was an insufferable snob for dressing in such a manner, but as I've gotten to know him better, I realize that there's something I really appreciate about his style of dress, the way he carries himself, his degree of ... well, culturedness, if that's a word, or the term for it? I recall that his grandfather (my father-in law, a WWII veteran and pretty classy guy himself) dressed the same way - I used to rib my wife about how he would rake leaves in a button-down white shirt (he would). It's so not about being a snob. It's about looking right for others, letting the world know that you respect yourself, what have you. Now I see this guy as someone I'm proud to be related to.

This guy is also an art teacher, with a rich appreciation of the visual medium, something that's not in my blood, but I appreciate it.

I dig the 'member berries comment (if you are aware of the reference). Sure, the past can have a nostalgic appeal, and I think nostalgia can be very dangerous. But there is an element of what this guy (i.e., the guy in the video) is saying that resonates with me, especially in terms of how people present themselves in public.

[Chik]

It's a complex and complicated subject. That said, I think values have evolved over time so we're not exactly the same today as we were several decades ago.

And, it's not about things (consumer stuff), but I also think that the prevailing set of values and priorities do get reflected in things since they don't exist in a vacuum and are made, sold and bought by humans of that period.

[Chik]

I admit to feeling nostalgia when looking at certain things being made today and mumbling, "They no longer make it like they used to." As I've always been in the business of stuff, I perhaps come across such moments more than some do.

[bigbill]

I am a historian these days. I've retired from engineering and have a new role teaching community college. My master's thesis explored the root causes of systemic racism, beginning with Reconstruction and continuing through the Civil Rights Movement from its beginning in the 1890s to the 1960s. American History, until the 1960s, was about white men. Attempts were made to record the history of other groups, but much of it is hidden away in archives. During The Great Depression, the federal government created employment for blue-collar and white-collar workers, again almost exclusively white. Still, the WPA did try to record the history of African Americans, including former slaves.

https://www.loc.gov/collections/slav...ve-collection/

[Peter Polack]

There are many images in the five or so minutes that convince me that, on balance, there was more grace and good manners then there are now.

This was exactly my takeaway from your original post.

There is a certain declination of society going on and has been since, in my opinion, post- WWII. Perhaps the era spoken of and illustrated in the video was the pinnacle of "grace and good manners".

Perhaps there will be a rennaissance. We can only hope. I promise to do my part to bring it back.

[JoB]

Yeah. The message glosses over the fact that, just like present day, there are also negatives and downsides to the talking points in the YouTube. I didn't see it as Joey B's job, especially in his podcast, to give us a history of the world until now.

There are many images in the five or so minutes that convince me that, on balance, there was more grace and good manners then there are now.

I don't know about grace. I'd say there was more conformity and things were cleaner. It is hard to see how dirty major American cities are.

On the other hand, the 'manners' thing probably depends on perspective. I am guessing I'd prefer to live now rather than in the 50s were I gay, trans, brown, politically left, an immigrant, or anything other than Christian. And completely agree with @garro.

Lastly, and regarding the mention of homelessness, it is for most people a choice to go grocery shopping in their Cookie Monster pajamas. It is far from a choice to be homeless in LA and sleeping on a sidewalk. That is largely due to a lack of mental health care, virtually no social security safety net, and the criminalizing of recreational drugs. Much of this was driven by an unwillingness to tax the rich (mostly Repubs), and policy decisions to buy cheap crap from China (Repubs and Dems).

[Scott G.]

I've read many of the comments, appreciate them, and am coming back to this.

I don't know the messenger, or why he was dressed like he was and even I wondered about the setting he couched himself in. Would an Edward R. Murrow or Alistair Cooke looking cat have been a better choice for the delivery? [snip]

Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter is a much better choice.

[e-RICHIE]

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One of my favorite passages, clipped from an early ‘90s article in the Sunday NYT Magazine.
To me, it expresses the same basic sentiment that the YouTube does, but in a sound bite.
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[Mark Walberg]

I don't know about grace. I'd say there was more conformity and things were cleaner. It is hard to see how dirty major American cities are......

I'm not so sure that cities used to be cleaner. I grew up in Pittsburgh and I worked in a steel mill. I can tell you for sure that Pittsburgh is a LOT cleaner now than it was in the time the Youtube guy is talking about.

[JoB]

I'm not so sure that cities used to be cleaner. I grew up in Pittsburgh and I worked in a steel mill. I can tell you for sure that Pittsburgh is a LOT cleaner now than it was in the time the Youtube guy is talking about.

Agreed completely on environmental matters. Come think of it, I wouldn't want to have asthma in the 50s, either ;-)

[bertiewhang]

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A pal linked me. I've never heard of Joey B. but his message is important (to me) and I'd like to share it with the world.

I think I see the same as you in the video. I live on the other side of the world, am younger than you and understand what the guy is saying. The cars are different, the people are different, the architecture is different but the sentiment is the same. Talking about the man working on the train and making whatever inference is not what it's about to me.

[vespasianus]

This thread is about a video from a guy named Joey B Toonz, who looks like a bum sitting on a couch, complaining about bums, that look they should be sitting on a couch.

And the OP thinks this is supposed to have some intellectual insight into some of the current world problems?

[e-RICHIE]

And the OP thinks this is supposed to have some intellectual insight into some of the current world problems?

No, he doesn’t think that at all.

[Drew]

The complement to the original video:



"If you can't do the little things right, then you'll never do the big things right." Personally, I pretty much live by this.

I have no idea how we help others in our society be better people. Handouts ($) only go so far. A good start would be required financial education and nutrition courses in high school, and better access to mental health care.

[JoB]

"Handouts" like bailing out investment banks? Home mortgage interest deductions? Habitat for humanity? Food stamps?

FWIW, housing homeless people and paying for it actually pays for themselves (i.e., they save money in downstream services). it's just that there is no political will to do this.

One source: https://www.vox.com/2014/5/30/576409...help-solutions

The complement to the original video:



"If you can't do the little things right, then you'll never do the big things right." Personally, I pretty much live by this.

I have no idea how we help others in our society be better people. Handouts ($) only go so far. A good start would be required financial education and nutrition courses in high school, and better access to mental health care.

[vertical_doug]

"Handouts" like bailing out investment banks? Home mortgage interest deductions? Habitat for humanity? Food stamps?

FWIW, housing homeless people and paying for it actually pays for themselves (i.e., they save money in downstream services). it's just that there is no political will to do this.

One source: https://www.vox.com/2014/5/30/576409...help-solutions

I can agree with everything you wrote, but the issue becomes execution. The project may start with good intentions, but just like Roark's Cortlandt Project in the Fountainhead, it gets corrupted with process as the pigs come to trough.

See the article from the NYTIMES on the HHH Project in LA

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/23/o...e-housing.html

Ironically, I am no fan of Ayn Rand and her philosophy, but it does make her always wrong.

[sk_tle]

There are many images in the five or so minutes that convince me that, on balance, there was more grace and good manners then there are now. Was it the times? Social pressure? Other things? I don't know.

Can it also be the fact that we documented more the parts we were proud of back then ?

I mean, it is nice to praise the design of some old objects, but there were also tons of low quality stuff that ended up in the bin too back then. Also the streets, slum have been existing for literraly centuries and I believe even if the worse favelas of today you will see people better dressed and cleaner than the people who didn't have easy access to water and were coming back from work covered in dirt and mud.

I saw that same distorded reality being made about kids and parenthood, the somehow kids were more obendient than now. I think a lot of parents simply used to let their kids wander around alone and weren't even aware of all the stupid things kids were doing. Kids could maybe afford being obedient and courteous at dinner in front of mum and dad because they were doing all the dirty things outside of their eyes.

I still thinks some of his words are true but they are overamplified by the amount of and type of data we are subject to today vs our past. I've been exposed to a lot of images of people wearing stupid things in walmart on the internet, memes, videos. In real life? Well we don't have walmarts over here but in regular supermarkets not so much, I think the worse offenders are some leggings by people women who aren't necessarily easy looking by our standards.

Our societes have a big problem with addiction, bad nutrition and dependency to motorized vehicules. But this has been something in the making for more than a century already.

[e-RICHIE]

Can it also be the fact that we documented more the parts we were proud of back then ?

I mean, it is nice to praise the design of some old objects, but there were also tons of low quality stuff that ended up in the bin too back then. <cut>

Yes. Again - agreed.
The guy had imagery in his four plus minute clip that were beautiful.
That's why I pasted in the link.
Despite some here adding comments that his (Joey B's) only represented a slice of the times, I already knew that.

[Chik]

.
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One of my favorite passages, clipped from an early ‘90s article in the Sunday NYT Magazine.
To me, it expresses the same basic sentiment that the YouTube does, but in a sound bite.
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.
.

Perhaps I'm not understanding this passage, but I don't think there ever was a time when workers didn't sell their time. "Time" is interchangeable with "effort", as well as accumulation of skill and experience. How they are valued or, perhaps more precisely, priced is different today in many fields.

[e-RICHIE]

Perhaps I'm not understanding this passage, but I don't think there ever was a time when workers didn't sell their time. "Time" is interchangeable with "effort", as well as accumulation of skill and experience. How they are valued or, perhaps more precisely, priced is different today in many fields.

Maybe rather than selling, the message was more about selling out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the story was an allegory.
Anyway, I clipped it and have saved it all these years.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/09/m...a-visitor.html