Gas Stoves oh my

[smontanaro]

We own a three-flat, live in the middle unit, have a long term tenant in the "garden" apartment and rent the top floor out through AirBnB. We just sold the top floor range. We've replaced one of the doors on the cabinets over the stove two or three times now (yes, they are up high enough) because guests get carried away with the stove temps and don't run the fan. We will replace it with an induction cook top and perhaps an electric oven. We've used an induction cook top a bit (not for anything major). They seem to work well.

[Scott G.]

Cooking over the wet, low-temperature flame of natural gas is weak sauce. Indoor air quality be damned — cook over a coal fire! Good, hard anthracite coal.

Having had a pizza from one of Frank Pepe’s places recently, I know this to be true.

You can buy surplus Soviet era Radioisotope thermoelectric generators on the 'Bay, great for sous vide.
No worries about gas explosions or methane pollution.


Repomann....
[B]J. Frank Parnell [/B]: Ever been to Utah? Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it.
Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious nonsense.
Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too.

[SpeedyChix]

We've been using an induction cooktop for about five years now and having to use gas or electric when we are elsewhere is sub-optimal. The control of the heat and the speed of making a temp change is wonderful and simple.

[ides1056]

I had to google induction cooktop.
The wood stove is going.
The gas range is going.
I try not to drive more than once a week.

[Mark Kelly]

Indoor air quality is my main concern. After reading up some I'm more vigilant to use the vent.

Put an industrial quality gas stop valve on the gas feed line, turn it off when the stove is not in use. Problem solved.

For those too lazy to switch the valve: use an actuated valve and put a position detector on the stopcocks on the stove that opens the supply valve whenever any of them is actuated. With simple detectors and basic diode logic I could implement this for under $100.

Or just buy an induction cooker. The future is now.

[Too Tall]

I love my induction. Super clean, easy, and safe. I've had gas and electric heat element (glass top), and induction out performs both by far.

My preference: Induction>>>Gas>Electric (heat element)

I'm listening. If there is anything I can do to improve indoor air quality within reason, I'm all for it.

How in the heck do you toss contents of a sauce pan if everytime you lift the pan induction will shutdown? My Moka Pot is aluminum, can I use a piece steel as a hot plate of sorts?

I've got all sorts of ignorant questions.

Mark >>> RODGER THAT!!!! I'm probably in the market for induction. This seems like a good move.

[spopepro]

How in the heck do you toss contents of a sauce pan if everytime you lift the pan induction will shutdown? My Moka Pot is aluminum, can I use a piece steel as a hot plate of sorts?

These were/are the issues that have kept me from joining the future.

The auto shutoff is smarter these days. The pan will stop being heated when you lift it out of the magnetic field, but while the older versions shut off pretty quickly new ones are better. You can’t tip the edge and toss to start flambé obviously.

Aluminum and copper won’t resist enough to make heat. You can use a resistive plate but then you’re conking on old school resistive electric and it still sucks. Cast iron, enameled and not, is amazing on induction. Stoneware like donabe and dolsot will never be compatible.

I was doing some sugar work (candy) recently. I would have loved the tech of induction then for accuracy and control. I might even get a portable single induction unit for such occasions. I love how stupid efficient induction is. I just have too many old habits to go all in.

[jmgorman]

The new place is electric-only and I replaced the old resistive electric stove pretty quickly for one of the GE cafe series induction stoves. I'm never going back - it's the best stove I've ever used on every level. The shutoff is a nonissue, you'll never boil water faster, and the control is so fast and precise.

[Mark Kelly]

Repomann....
[B]J. Frank Parnell [/B]: Ever been to Utah? Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it.
Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious nonsense.
Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too.

It is ironic that the person who used X rays to unravel the structure of DNA possibly died because the XRays unravelled her DNA: Rosalind Franklin was apparently a bit slack about X ray safety and died of cancer before the Nobel prizes were awarded to her colleague Wilkins and her rivals Crick and Watson.

[sk_tle]

I'm pretty much stuck with gas now as I am not owner of my appartment.

I need to rant about induction though. I have been using induction for years in my previously owned flats in CH and what's up with those shitty tactile (or should I rather say tactless) interface and all the beeps ? This used to drive me crazy. Spill a bit of liquid or have wet fingers and you just have an uncontrollable screeaming piece of cooking shit. Why can't I get induction and trustable physical rotary buttons ?

[jmgorman]

That GE cafe ftw on all points. No beeping, beautiful brushed bronze (or copper or SS if you prefer) dials - and fights through water without a hiccup. The tech will get better, especially when CA drives the market that direction.

[Mark Kelly]

Why can't I get induction and trustable physical rotary buttons ?

You can.


lbi09wmp-ss-ilve-pro-line-freestanding-cooker.jpg

Ilve. Also no beeping (except the timer).

[Too Tall]

Mark, my birthday is coming up. Oof. The specs. on that rascal are quite nice.

[Will Neide]

I'm listening. If there is anything I can do to improve indoor air quality within reason, I'm all for it.

How in the heck do you toss contents of a sauce pan if everytime you lift the pan induction will shutdown? My Moka Pot is aluminum, can I use a piece steel as a hot plate of sorts?

I've got all sorts of ignorant questions.

Mark >>> RODGER THAT!!!! I'm probably in the market for induction. This seems like a good move.

I can only speak for the one I have which is the Samsung Chef Collection. I frequently take things off the "burner" to toss contents, or clean spilled water. Mine automatically starts once you put the pan/pot back on the stove to complete the loop. I've never had an issue with auto-shutoff.

You will need pots and pans that work with induction. Cast iron works too. I don't have any aluminum.

My stove has radial knobs like a normal stove so I'm not familiar with the beeps that some of the other users have mentioned. I like the virtual blue flame to let me know it's on.

Downsides? Might take a few tries to find the settings you like. I've learned that boost = boiling water and otherwise I never go above medium to cook anything. The temp control is great!

Cleaning and safety are great! Have some water boil over? Pick up the pot, wipe off the cook top, replace pot. There is no heating element and even though the glass gets hot, it's not nearly as hot as the old electric cook top.

Take the plunge. The water is warm (on setting "simmer").

[smontanaro]

The problem isn't going to be solved with a single silver bullet. Tundra leaking is one issue, leaky stoves is another. Old oil and gas infrastructure is another. Shipping is another, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (as Yul Brynner might have said in "The King and I"). All have to be tackled if we are to extricate ourselves from this mess. I don't think they all need to go to zero, but they will all need significant reductions. As individuals, we need to do more than give up plastic straws and drive less (and/or switch to EVs). Our houses' emissions also need to be reduced. All these different sources of global warming gasses can't be reduced one-by-one. There simply isn't enough time. They all have to be worked on in parallel.

[sk_tle]

The problem isn't going to be solved with a single silver bullet. Tundra leaking is one issue, leaky stoves is another. Old oil and gas infrastructure is another. Shipping is another, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (as Yul Brynner might have said in "The King and I"). All have to be tackled if we are to extricate ourselves from this mess. I don't think they all need to go to zero, but they will all need significant reductions. As individuals, we need to do more than give up plastic straws and drive less (and/or switch to EVs). Our houses' emissions also need to be reduced. All these different sources of global warming gasses can't be reduced one-by-one. There simply isn't enough time. They all have to be worked on in parallel.

I have lost almost all hope when I saw that in recent years bars and restaurants in Málaga started putting gas heater in terrasses in december and january. I know it is supposedly winter her, but it is still hotter than a lot of parts of europe in late spring. No need for a heater when you can just keep your jacket (or go inside).

[9tubes]

It is a climate concern. The goal of the study was to find sources of all the "extra" methane entering the environment. Here's the article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/c...emissions.html

What a bizarre study. How about taking the simple route? The first step is to make sure a gas stove is operating properly and not leaking. Problem solved.

Also, I have to wonder about the objectivity (and common sense) of the study authors who seem to start with the premise that it is more ecological to junk a perfectly good gas stove and manufacture a new induction stove, plus the carbon emissions of shipping, delivery and installation.

[classtimesailer]

They want everything running on electricity?

[thollandpe]

What a bizarre study. How about taking the simple route? The first step is to make sure a gas stove is operating properly and not leaking. Problem solved.

Also, I have to wonder about the objectivity (and common sense) of the study authors who seem to start with the premise that it is more ecological to junk a perfectly good gas stove and manufacture a new induction stove, plus the carbon emissions of shipping, delivery and installation.

That’s a very inaccurate read of the study. Their premise is that gas stoves leak a significant amount of methane, even if it is new and operating “properly”. 75% of the leakage occurs when the stoves are supposedly off. I’ll add that since methane does 86 times more climate damage* if it’s leaked instead of burned, a seemingly small leakage rate can do a lot of damage.

Here’s their synopsis, and the actual study referred to by the NYT article posted by @j44ke is linked below.

“Natural gas cooking appliances release methane─primarily through small, persistent leaks─and NOx while in use, damaging the climate and degrading indoor air quality.”

Methane and NOx Emissions from Natural Gas Stoves, Cooktops, and Ovens in Residential Homes

*20-year GWP

[9tubes]

You make good points. However, if the stove is leaking natural gas when off then it isn't working properly. Natural gas is poisonous, which is why the utility injects a particular scent so people can detect leaks. The NYT article implies that a stove that leaks poisonous gas is somehow working as it should and "properly" as you say. Further, the NYT makes the important leap that such a defective condition cannot be engineered out of the product. That is simply nonsense.

The NYT also does not state the magnitude of the problem relative to other sources of natural gas leaking into the atmosphere. Or other carbon sources. If the stove doesn't leak when off, the effect of burning gas to make dinner is trivial to the total greenhouse gases. A back-of-the-napkin calc shows that one cross country flight spews more carbon per person than a year of the typical household making dinner. I would agree that in a perfect world everyone would use electric but we live in a world where costs count, and I suggest that society collectively spend its money in an efficient manner to stop the big sources first.