irrational fear of flying

[monadnocky]

For a design flaw example requiring major hardware redesign, see the DH106 Comet l,
3 structural failure crashes in 12 months.
Famous at the time, there is even a book/movie based on it "No Highway in the Sky"
Comet variants were in service for 60 years.


de Havilland Comet - Wikipedia

As I'm sure you know, the Nimrod - a variant of the Comet, retired in 2011 (!!!)
An absolutely gorgeous aircraft, IMO:

Anthony-Noble.jpg

[Christian Fox]

I'll repeat: This is what happens when we allow our regulatory agencies to be compromised and are foolish enough to allow any sort of self policing by industry. Neutering, via budget cuts, privatization and general vilification of our regulatory bodies shifted into high gear with Reagan who, much like Trump, depreciated the need for them. He, more than anybody I can think of, undermined the public consensus for the need of robust government regulation of industry. If Boeing had not been granted broad self certification capabilities and if the FAA hadn't been hollowed out by decades of corrosion via political dereliction of duty these tragedies would not have occurred. Note I didn't say accident; that was intentional. These aren't accidents but are the predictable outcome of choices that have been made....just as deaths from texting drivers are due to our unwillingness to have and enforce severe penalties for vehicular homicide as well as for failing to use technology that would disable drivers-seat cell phone operation when in a moving vehicle.

What's odd is the regulation of US air flight over the past 20 years has netted a safety record unprecedented in the history of mass human transportation. It's mind boggling; one single fatality in the past 10 years, in which over 3 billion passengers were flown. Huh, I guess we've just been lucky this whole time.

[Saab2000]

As I'm sure you know, the Nimrod - a variant of the Comet, retired in 2011 (!!!)
An absolutely gorgeous aircraft, IMO:

Anthony-Noble.jpg

Gorgeous is not a word I would use to describe the Nimrod.....

If one is looking for a more aesthetically appealing British jetliner turned military vehicle, look to the VC-10. It too is now retired. I took this photo on December 7, 2004 at Washington Dulles. This was twelve years to the day from my interview with my current (and hopefully final) employer.

This aircraft, like the Comet, 707, DC-8, 747, A340, A380 and more, has the correct number of engines.

[monadnocky]

Gorgeous is not a word I would use to describe the Nimrod.....

I've always had a thing for funny-looking noses.....

[jclay]

As I'm sure you know, the Nimrod - a variant of the Comet, retired in 2011 (!!!)
An absolutely gorgeous aircraft, IMO:
Anthony-Noble.jpg

Can you imagine the wing spar design for that thing??? What a crazy-ass design. You would have to realize outrageous performance gains to make doing that worth the trouble; cearly that wasn't the case, even back then before high bypass fans, or everyone else would have adopted the design. And engine service or replacement; what a nightmare.

[Saab2000]

For the record, this is the de Havilland Comet, from which the Nimrod was derived.

[theflashunc]

When's Boeing's senior management and board taking that ceremonial flight together on the MAX relaunch?

[Saab2000]

When's Boeing's senior management and board taking that ceremonial flight together on the MAX relaunch?

No recertification date has even yet been speculated. But I’d bet they’ll be on those flights. United Airlines’ CEO has announced he’ll be on board when they return their MAX aircraft into service.

[monadnocky]

If one is looking for a more aesthetically appealing British jetliner turned military vehicle, look to the VC-10. It too is now retired. I took this photo on December 7, 2004 at Washington Dulles. This was twelve years to the day from my interview with my current (and hopefully final) employer.

The VC-10, to me, always looks like those Ilyushin designs.... but I think the Ilyushins were (ahem) "designed" to look like the the VC-10 and not vice-versa. Front end, check.... but, four engines mounted in side-by-side configuration near the empennage looks, a little, well.... iron-curtain-y.

[monadnocky]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?
Elvis would agree (although I think he had an 880, not a 990).

swissar-coronado-1200x640.jpg

[Saab2000]

The VC-10, to me, always looks like those Ilyushin designs.... but I think the Ilyushins were (ahem) "designed" to look like the the VC-10 and not vice-versa. Front end, check.... but, four engines mounted in side-by-side configuration near the empennage looks, a little, well.... iron-curtain-y.

The VC-10 was first. And looks better.

Factoid: when I lived in Switzerland and worked at Zurich airport occasionally the DPRK state Ilyushin IL-62 would visit unannounced. Given Switzerland’s low key, but often pivotal, position in international diplomacy most folks figured it was a diplomatic trip. But it was in all likelihood Kim Jong Un’s school bus from Pyongyang.

[Saab2000]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?
Elvis would agree (although I think he had an 880, not a 990).

swissar-coronado-1200x640.jpg

These were among the fastest, between fuel stops that totally negated their speed advantage!

[thollandpe]

I would imagine the MAX is going through an ultra thorough, line-by-line code review of all flight control systems. Boeing is known to outsource a lot, in part to incentivize customer nations to support the programs and purchase Boeing products, and this is undoubtedly under extreme scrutiny at the moment.

It's not as though other airliners didn't have problems, also resulting in many deaths. Look at the past history of all the great jetliners, including 707s and DC-8s and DC-10s and even the 747. They all had crashes that could be traced to engineering imperfection.

The difference is the 24/7 news exposure and internet social media (including cycling chat forums that veer off-topic) that didn't exist in the 1970s, when airline crashes seemed to be a semi-regular occurrence.

I'm hopeful that the review of the MAX8 and other variants is extremely thorough and the airplane is re-certified and safe.

Saab2k, I will respectfully disagree. This is not a press problem, this is a process problem. It's not that the coverage is unprecedented, it's that the executive suite is acting in a way that is not what we should expect from people who came from the background of designing, making, or flying airplanes.

I think the problem is that the bean counters took over the cockpit, and sent the engineers back to economy class. And didn't even buy them their first drink. Or even a second bag of peanuts.

Who gives a hoot about the code, what about the decision to produce an airframe that has a large unstable area in its flight envelope? This, to me, seems to be the unprecedented area in which this airplane is treading. But even that pales in comparison to the cover-your-ass way, instead of figuring out how to make the best damn airplane possible, that Boeing has acted.

[thollandpe]

PS American management is toxic. GM killed Saab!



Cheers, TH.

[Saab2000]

PS American management is toxic. GM killed Saab!

I can’t disagree there. They ended up selling Opel before they killed it.

Thankfully they’re not all bad. I work for a pretty good American company these days.

[Scott G.]

Can you imagine the wing spar design for that thing??? What a crazy-ass design. [snip]

You can see part of the spar design here, also note the Powder Room & Bullion Office.
Saab, where is the bullion office on the Max ?

e6a184b14a4b33136e093ff0c27ae1fb.jpg

[Saab2000]

You can see part of the spar design here, also note the Powder Room & Bullion Office.
Saab, where is the bullion office on the Max ?

e6a184b14a4b33136e093ff0c27ae1fb.jpg

The Bullion Office on the MAX8 is located ahead of the center fuel tank and is accessible to pilots only via a tunnel located in the flight deck and passing just behind the E&E Bay through the forward baggage compartment. Here is actual footage of a captain in the Bullion Office recently being asked to take concessions in the latest round of contract negotiations.

[Dave Thompson]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?
Elvis would agree (although I think he had an 880, not a 990).

swissar-coronado-1200x640.jpg

The Convair series are my candidates for the 4-engine category. For the twin engine queen, I nominate the French Sud Caravelle.

[Mabouya]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?

Gotta be the Connie:

[thollandpe]

Concorde.