irrational fear of flying

[thollandpe]

Gotta be the Connie

Lockheed made some outrageous planes. Great company and Kelly Johnson was a great man.
From the Vega to the Tri-Star, they looked good too.

TH

[Dave Thompson]

Gotta be the Connie:

I worked on the military version on the Connie (C-121) when i was in the USAF. They were so compact and tightly packaged, they were a mechanics nightmare. They were also very fast. When they were introduced into service in late WWII they were reportedly faster than some contemporary foghters.

[theflashunc]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?
Elvis would agree (although I think he had an 880, not a 990).

Attachment 112555

Is this the "Non P-38 Lightning" category?

[monadnocky]

^^^ I was thinking passenger types, but yeah, that's one for sure.
And obvs, even the best looking airframe is first loser to Concorde.

[theflashunc]

^^^ I was thinking passenger types, but yeah, that's one for sure.
And obvs, even the best looking airframe is first loser to Concorde.

Ah, fair.

I always had a weird affinity for the DC-3 and DC-7, with the 7 winning out.

[bigbill]

Ah, fair.

I always had a weird affinity for the DC-3 and DC-7, with the 7 winning out.

There's a DC-7 or at least most of one parked on the tarmac a few blocks from work. I'm in Kingman, AZ at the airport industrial park and the place is a commercial aircraft boneyard. DC-8's, Convair 880's, DC-10's, DC-9's (80's), pretty much every Boeing jet with the exception of a 747, and C-130's. Most airlines are represented plus Airborne delivery. The airport opens a few times a week for private aviation and military touch and go's.

[bigbill]

.... so, while we're talking aesthetically-pleasing airframes, can we just go ahead and crown the all-time winner?
Elvis would agree (although I think he had an 880, not a 990).

Attachment 112555

My stepfather was the aeronautical engineer for Elvis' 880. As a kid I got to walk through the partially finished aircraft at a facility in the DFW area. I think it was Addison because he was working for Foster-Edwards at the time. Lots of leather, carpet on the bulkheads, and a gold sink in the rear lavatory.

[EricKeller]

Can you imagine the wing spar design for that thing??? What a crazy-ass design. You would have to realize outrageous performance gains to make doing that worth the trouble; cearly that wasn't the case, even back then before high bypass fans, or everyone else would have adopted the design. And engine service or replacement; what a nightmare.

I generally agree that it was silly, I doubt they had any real performance justification in making that design. However, I doubt dropping an engine was that bad. It wouldn't surprise me if they rolled engines forward or back to get them out, like on an F16, where one of the mounts was a roller skate. I'm sure they just split the spar and went around the engines, the load is carried on the outside anyway.

[jclay]

I generally agree that it was silly, I doubt they had any real performance justification in making that design. However, I doubt dropping an engine was that bad. It wouldn't surprise me if they rolled engines forward or back to get them out, like on an F16, where one of the mounts was a roller skate. I'm sure they just split the spar and went around the engines, the load is carried on the outside anyway.

Removing an engine is always a big deal! Always. And access for the myriad of regular maintenance and inspection tasks had to be a nightmare compared to under-hung fans. Access, access, access. With every passing year I realize that, basic competency assumed, good access to the work is about 90% of the job. Sticking an engine in the wing or otherwise making maintenance difficult, unless there is a hell of a good reason to do so, is poor engineering in my book.

And introducing a structural discontinuity near the area of maximum stresses is just crazy, again, unless there is an overwhelmingly good reason for it...like you can get crazy better fuel efficiency.

[jclay]

Ah, fair.

I always had a weird affinity for the DC-3 and DC-7, with the 7 winning out.

Connie and the DC-7 were pretty amazing. What they did with radial engines in those airplanes was remarkable...but it's hard to beat axial flow turbines!

[EricKeller]

Removing an engine is always a big deal! Always. And access for the myriad of regular maintenance and inspection tasks had to be a nightmare compared to under-hung fans. Access, access, access. With every passing year I realize that, basic competency assumed, good access to the work is about 90% of the job. Sticking an engine in the wing or otherwise making maintenance difficult, unless there is a hell of a good reason to do so, is poor engineering in my book.

I used to work in engine integration, so I'm familiar with what it takes to remove an engine. I spent a month one weekend in St. Louis while techs from McDonald Douglas rolled an engine in and out of an F15 and then we spent a long time looking for pink clay on the engine because that meant something interfered. Some companies design better ways of working on an engine than others. But usually there is pretty good access. Then again, this design is British, so maybe it was impossible to work on and had electrical problems. Most of the guys that would know aren't around anymore.

I don't think most aircraft companies would have trouble designing reliable structure for this design. My experience is that structural issues show up in the weirdest places, but not usually in the wing root area. The engine goes through the web of the beam, so not really a big problem, maybe a little extra weight. It's conceptually very similar to most fighter designs that all seem to have engines or inlets interrupting the wing carry-through bulkheads.

[jclay]

You can definitely do it, it's just that in my view there needs to be a pretty good reason to do so; like minimizing roll axis inertia in a fighter....making one just that little bit snappier than the opponent. But in the world of commercial aircraft I think we can see the concensus on every ramp.

[Mabouya]

I spent a month one weekend in St. Louis

Is it that bad here? ;)

[rwsaunders]

Very interesting story about the inventor of the flight recorder.

This little-known inventor has probably saved your life - BBC News

[rwsaunders]

A tour of the Rolls Royce Aerospace engine plant in England.

How an airplane engine gets made: Inside Rolls Royce Aerospace | CNN Travel

[thollandpe]

How was I the first person to like that pic of the mirror-polished Lightning? Holy shit that is a fantastic shot of a stupendous machine.

Marge is still my favorite,
Todd.

[jclay]

How was I the first person to like that pic of the mirror-polished Lightning? Holy shit that is a fantastic shot of a stupendous machine.
Marge is still my favorite,
Todd.

Awfully pretty airplane but I'm kinda partial to the F4U Corsair. It's a family thing and if you ever watch Flying Leathernecks my father is pedaling one of them. He once said "we tried to look like John Wayne"; I told him that I thought he had it backwards.

[gregl]

The VC-10, to me, always looks like those Ilyushin designs.... but I think the Ilyushins were (ahem) "designed" to look like the the VC-10 and not vice-versa. Front end, check.... but, four engines mounted in side-by-side configuration near the empennage looks, a little, well.... iron-curtain-y.

Tell that to Kelly Johnson! I had the pleasure of four years roaming the world in this all-American classic:

3E03C29B-5845-47EB-A7E5-DECBB95BC2A4.jpeg

Greg

[thollandpe]

Awfully pretty airplane but I'm kinda partial to the F4U Corsair. It's a family thing and if you ever watch Flying Leathernecks my father is pedaling one of them. He once said "we tried to look like John Wayne"; I told him that I thought he had it backwards.

Also one audacious aircraft. I had the displeasure of taking a mechanical vibrations class taught by a retired engineer from Chance-Vought who worked on the project. He was also a visiting professor from a smaller competing university, and was set on putting us in our place. One of his points is that they analyzed the snot out of that airframe, especially when it came to vibration.

[SteveP]

Wait for it... Boeing is going to come for a government bailout.

This whole thing just keeps rolling out..