The XC Skiing thread

[vertical_doug]

Thanks. That makes sense, and again… I’m not racing for places. This time. I don’t even have a pair of real track skis!

Another question caleb—my family in Blaine says “we have ski marathons! Come visit!” Which ones are cool? Like I know the birke in WI is the big one… but how about the ones in MN? I’m strictly classic if it matters and content with iffy conditions and long distances.

The Arrowhead 135 of course !

You should skip the races and just go with family to Brainerd (2hrs+- drive) or the Gun Flint. (6 hrs)
Both areas have over 200 miles of trails.

Caleb, didn't you use to ski up by the Gunflint or did you stay closer to Duluth?

[caleb]

@spopepro The Birkie is sort of the NYC Marathon of ski races, and all the others are more like your local 4th of July half marathon. The Birkie is worth doing at least once. You could do it in a long day trip from Blaine (and people do), but it's easiest to stay up there the night before, at least.

With local family, you should really come and do the Loppet. It's 37k, point-to-point, on classic-only trails, all in the city. This year the classic race is February 4th, and registration is still open. We have very good snow right now. Find a plane ticket and jump in. https://www.loppet.org/events/marathon-puoli-tour-ski/

Further afield are the Finlandia in Bemidji, the Pepsi Challenge at Giants Ridge, and Sleeping Giant by Thunder Bay. They're all great races, but require more travel.

Finlandia: https://www.minnesotafinlandia.com

Pepsi Challenge: https://www.pepsichallengeskirace.com/pepsi.php

Sleeping Giant: https://www.sleepinggiantloppet.ca/50km_classic.html

There's also the Vasaloppet by Mora, which is about an hour north of Blaine. It's a flatter course and they've struggled with poor snow conditions in recent years. However, it has a reputation as a good event when they have the snow to pull it off. https://vasaloppet.us/race-weekend/2...week-schedule/

Let us know how it goes!

If you happen to just be visiting sometime and want to ski, you can find current conditions here: https://www.skinnyski.com/trails/reports.asp Elm Creek is usually the best skiing on the north side of town.

[caleb]

Caleb, didn't you use to ski up by the Gunflint or did you stay closer to Duluth?

I've lived around the state over the past 20 years, but Minneapolis is home right now.

[spopepro]

@spopepro The Birkie is sort of the NYC Marathon of ski races, and all the others are more like your local 4th of July half marathon. The Birkie is worth doing at least once. You could do it in a long day trip from Blaine (and people do), but it's easiest to stay up there the night before, at least.

With local family, you should really come and do the Loppet. It's 37k, point-to-point, on classic-only trails, all in the city. This year the classic race is February 4th, and registration is still open. We have very good snow right now. Find a plane ticket and jump in. https://www.loppet.org/events/marathon-puoli-tour-ski/

Further afield are the Finlandia in Bemidji, the Pepsi Challenge at Giants Ridge, and Sleeping Giant by Thunder Bay. They're all great races, but require more travel.

Finlandia: https://www.minnesotafinlandia.com

Pepsi Challenge: https://www.pepsichallengeskirace.com/pepsi.php

Sleeping Giant: https://www.sleepinggiantloppet.ca/50km_classic.html

There's also the Vasaloppet by Mora, which is about an hour north of Blaine. It's a flatter course and they've struggled with poor snow conditions in recent years. However, it has a reputation as a good event when they have the snow to pull it off. https://vasaloppet.us/race-weekend/2...week-schedule/

Let us know how it goes!

If you happen to just be visiting sometime and want to ski, you can find current conditions here: https://www.skinnyski.com/trails/reports.asp Elm Creek is usually the best skiing on the north side of town.

Thanks for the beta. Really appreciate all the tips. This year is a no-go... because I'm gearing up to do my first CdB Canadian Ski Marathon on the 11/12th.

The Arrowhead 135 of course !

I've had it in mind from time to time... I'd need to do a qualifying race before they would grant entry. I'm thinking the Alaska Wilderness Ski Classic would probably meet the criteria, and it is definitely on my list of things to do... but it's tough as an adult to schedule these things, especially when you need a team.

[caleb]

Even though the shadows are still long, the days are getting noticeably longer.



Also, here's a new one. A pickup somehow decided to drive down the ski trail in the middle of the night on Friday. He took out a small tree and kept going until he drove off the trail and got stuck. Apparently the truck was reported about 5am on Saturday. It was below zero at the time, and unclear if there was a driver still there. I came by right as the grooming crew was going to try and pull it out with a Piston Bully. It's comic until you think about how many resources were going into fixing this yahoo's stupid decision.

[spopepro]

Well, the first race did not go as planned. We got 6 inches of snow over the course of the race and the winning time was 30min over last year's (40min for the skaters). It was slow and difficult and I had entirely the wrong skis. Well, I knew I had the wrong skis, but if it was firm I could do OK. As such, my metal edged skis with side cut did not help as I had to stride or pole even pretty steep downhills. Was passing people going up, so at least the engine is going ok...

I have a set of skis on order for racing/events. Figured I needed to do one before I could justify the purchase. Now next year I get to be an hour faster...

[spopepro]

Well, it wasn’t in the style I imagined but I finished. 160km over two days of beautiful farms and forests, great fast tracks, punching through lake overflow, slimy snowmobile trails, icy snow bank aprons on the side of the road, and some seriously steep and sketchy descents. It’s a great event and quite the experience. Now to treat all these blisters…

FFCAC428-3109-459E-9CB7-F39E5A58968B.jpgECBD9786-6493-4FD0-A8F2-2611B79150CF.jpg99B6EA59-0081-41F6-B9FC-21D4DC58D20B.jpg3C9F254C-6393-4FE4-BAA0-3374FF5E27CB.jpg

[caleb]

Oh my, that sounds like an adventure @spopepro ! Can you tell us more about the event?

[spopepro]

Yeah for sure.

The Canadian ski marathon is a really unique event. I don’t think I’ve heard of anything else like it. It’s a giant celebration of Nordic skiing and outdoor enjoyment. There’s a variety of ways to participate—you can do as little as 10km, the full 160km, or distances in between. The 160 is divided into 2 days, and 5 sectors each day. Some folks just do a sector, some do a few, some do the half (the final 3 sectors each day), and there are three progressive levels of the full distance. I did the “bronze” which is the full distance, no other considerations. Having finished, next time I’m eligible to register for “silver” which add the requirement of carrying a pack with some minimum weight. If someone finished that, then the “gold” is carrying all your own overnight gear and spending the night outdoors between days. It’s exclusively classic.

We started in Mont Tremblant and started south. It’s a variety of established tracks and event only trails. The start was fast and fun, and I only ran into my first difficulties with the two lake crossings where they couldn’t groom because of thin ice over overflow, even though the lakes were solid under. There was quite a bit of elevation change in the second half. I personally felt pretty good on the first day and kept to my very conservative pacing and it worked out great.

Getting going the second day was something else… the longest I had skied up to this point in one day was around 42km. Day one was like 82km. I was not doing well, and it took me a long time to get the body working. We started in montebello and headed west. The first two sectors were probably my favorite of the event—golf courses, parks, and farms. The next two were harsh. They used established snowmobile trails only open to skiers for this event. But that also meant no tracks, and a fair bit was steep. When you’re skiing for 11 hours you have lots of time to do math. Each day full length skiers need to start the last segment by 3:30 (we start at 5:50). I realized pretty early that I was on pace to only barely make it—and that’s if I didn’t slow down at all. I was really digging deep for sectors 8 and 9. I made the last cutoff by 7min. It was then a nice, but slooow, ski down into buckingham.

Stuff I learned:
I thought I was being smart by skiing my track-compatible backcountry Nordic setup but in retrospect it was too slow. I was super happy to have metal edges for the sketchy descents, but I was having to stride stuff others were casually double polling. The perfect setup might actually be a 3/4 metal edge narrow BC ski, but a regular classic boot/binding. Maybe even a combi boot for some extra ankle support.

My hydration and nutrition plan did not work. My insulated hose still froze and my food needed me to also drink. I was dramatically under-fueled and dehydrated. The checkpoints (every 15-20km typically) were great—good foods and hot Gatorade (lifesaver) was all that kept me going.

You have to actually be a little fast to finish. They talk constantly about “it’s not a race!” and it isn’t… but to make the cuts I needed to average 7km/h and that’s if I never stopped. My actual moving average was somewhere around 8.5km/h which isn’t impressive, except for doing it for 20 somewhat consecutive hours.

I really do recommend the event. The infrastructure is amazing. I flew into Montreal, took the city bus from the airport to the city bus station, then an event charter to a school in tremblant. Gym floor sleeping, but they served hot breakfast, shuttled my bags, and brought us to the start. There’s skier shuttles set up between parking lots and major hotels/dorms and every sector. At the end of day one, got my shuttle to the next school, met my bag there, and dinner and breakfast were prepared. Shuttle to the start, shuttle from the end, and got the charter back to Montreal.

I’ll likely do it again, next time with my wife. But I think rather than the gym floor “dorm” arrangement I think I’ll splurge and stay at the fairmont chateau montebello.

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[htwoopup]

Yeah for sure.

The Canadian ski marathon is a really unique event. …..
We started in Mont Tremblant and started south.…… then an event charter to a school in tremblant. Gym floor sleeping, but they served hot breakfast, shuttled my bags, and brought us to the start…….
I’ll likely do it again, next time with my wife. But I think rather than the gym floor “dorm” arrangement I think I’ll splurge and stay at the fairmont chateau montebello.

I wish I had realized this was the event you were talking about before you did it. Our house is on a lake in Mont Tremblant about 7 miles from the start in Arundel. If you do it again, reach out and you won’t have to sleep on a gym floor, get merely a school breakfast, and I can get you to the start.

[caleb]

Fantastic @spopepro ! What an event! That's a lot of skiing for anyone, especially on untracked trails and over bare ice.

The ski selection question does sound interesting. What were most people using?

[caleb]

Good news on the American nordic racing front.

There's work underway to bring the World Cup to Minnesota and Wisconsin in February 2024.

The plan that seems to be solidifying is to do a series of sprint and mid-distance races in Minneapolis over a long weekend, and then go up to Hayward for the full American Birkebeiner marathon course the next week.

Here's to hoping we can finally make this happen!

It was announced yesterday that this is indeed happening!

The plan is to do the whole thing in Minneapolis on Presidents Day weekend next year. https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2023/...essie-diggins/

[lumpy]

I'm also curious - that sounds like long days and variable conditions for effective waxing. Are most people using a waxless ski?

[rmplum]

So very cool spopepro! I did a one day nordic event like this back in the early 90s called the Wabos Loppet up in Canada.

It was a measly 25k or something but for a high school kid it seemed like quite an adventure at the time! I think I remember taking a train from Sault Ste Marie Canada up into the boonies somewhere and then we skied back.

Boy do I miss living somewhere with winter snow. SE Michigan sucks.

[spopepro]

I'm also curious - that sounds like long days and variable conditions for effective waxing. Are most people using a waxless ski?

Most people were using mid-level track skis with wax. Probably about 70%. The swix tech gave these suggestions right before the event:
1) klister brushed on
2) green binder corked over
3) two layers VG30 blue corked
4) three layers VP40 blue corked

All that said—so many problems the afternoon of the second day as even klister and skins weren’t doing great. I am biased—I only have skin or pattern base skis because the Sierra snowpack is an absolute nightmare for wax, but skins do seem the way to go.

Super exciting about worlds. I think I might try to make it out there for it.

[spopepro]

I wish I had realized this was the event you were talking about before you did it. Our house is on a lake in Mont Tremblant about 7 miles from the start in Arundel. If you do it again, reach out and you won’t have to sleep on a gym floor, get merely a school breakfast, and I can get you to the start.

Oh damn. Yeah, missed out for sure. But “merely a school breakfast” was crepes sucree, boiled eggs, pastries, yogurt, and fruit and it did hit the spot. Coffee needed help tho…

Next time!

[vertical_doug]

6000 yen for a day pass. US$44 in real money) 1000m vert.
No People.... nothing wrong with this picture.

[j44ke]

The snow in Japan seems like it can get crazy huge.

[72gmc]

The snow in Japan seems like it can get crazy huge.

I’d guess the water between Japan and Russia increases the snowfall—but I did fall asleep in meteorology 101.

[j44ke]

I’d guess the water between Japan and Russia increases the snowfall—but I did fall asleep in meteorology 101.

Yes. As I understand it, the Sea of Japan compounded by the Japanese Alps and the moist Pacific on the other side. Lake effect, except that it is a sea plus a wall of rock and an ocean.