Argonaut Cycles

[grscha]

I saw my first Argonaut in the metal yesterday. A gorgeous bike. It was a seafoam green cross bike decked out head to toe in ENVE. I saw it for sale at Cyclepath here in Portland.

Ben, any pics of said bike?

[one60]

I've witnessed that CX frame at CyclePath as well. It is stunning. There's some amazing workmanship beneath that great paint...the rear dropouts are genius, a great way to switch between gears and singlespeed. There are many great framebuilders in PDX but this one is a standout

[bfarver]

I’ve been working on this bike for a while, now, and I’m happy to say that it turned out well beyond my expectations. Ready for a lifetime of ogling and riding pleasure, all she needs is a happy home.

Here are the details:

Lugged road frame with 36mm HT, 35mm Columbus Life 6/4/6 DT, 31.7mm Life TT and ST. Polished Columbus XCR head tube, chainstays and seatstays.

This frame has been built in a way that integrates the wiring for the Shimano Di2 road group inside the frame. The derailleur wire goes inside the top of downtube, pops out of seat tube for the front derailleur, and out the bottom of the BB shell to go to battery, which bolts to the underside of non-drive side chainstay. The wire then comes out the back of the chainstay for the rear derailleur. There is also internal routing for rear brake cable.

This frame also comes with the new Argonaut ID dropouts, which can be run with vertical or horizontal drops, meaning the frame could be set up as a single speed. It’s not likely you’ll want to do this, but it never hurts to have the option.

Spectrum Powder Works just finished the paint with the exception of the name detail on the seat tube. It’s just waiting for the name of the lucky owner. The paint scheme is based on the ‘64 Shelby Daytona Coupe. The ENVE 2.0, 43mm rake fork and 110mm stem have been painted to match the frame.

Completely built out with full Di2, ENVE bars, stem, post and 45 clincher wheels with Chris King R45 Hubs the price comes to $11,560.30. I’m willing to give a significant discount if you buy this bike complete. The sale price is $10,700.00. It could also be sold as frame, fork, stem, and Di2 group for $8745. Reasonable offers will be considered. This project is a one-off and will not be duplicated. Email me at ben@argonautcycles.com

Retail = $11,560.30

Sale Price = $10,700.00

Frame, fork, stem, Di2 group = $8745.00

Full Photo Gallery

[VertigoCycles]

Ben, that bike is OUTSTANDING!

[bfarver]

Ben, that bike is OUTSTANDING!

Thanks, Sean! It's on display at Cycle Path if you're in the neighborhood.

We're long overdue for a beer!

[conorb]

Stunning work Ben.

What are the dimensions?

Good luck with the sale.

Conor

[bfarver]

Stunning work Ben.

What are the dimensions?

Good luck with the sale.

Conor

Hey Connor. Sorry for the delay. Here are the specs. After a lot of debate and no immediate takers I decided to keep it for myself. Pumped!

[zetroc]

Hey Ben, I saw your blog post pop up in my reader today and was surprised to say the least. Anything you can tell us about your current endeavors?

[bfarver]

Hey Ben, I saw your blog post pop up in my reader today and was surprised to say the least. Anything you can tell us about your current endeavors?

Hi Steve,

The latest post on my news page gives some background on the decision, and what I'm hoping to accomplish. I will say, though, that there are a lot of ways to skin the carbon cat, and the other custom carbon builders are doing fantastic work. It is my desire to take what I've learned from custom steel manufacturing and apply that to custom carbon. My goal is to both get improved quality and speed of manufacturing by investing in tooling and technology from the beginning.

With steel, I basically picked up a file and torch and just got after it, learning as I went. This worked out okay, but had I known what I know now I could have saved a lot of time and money on things I didn't need, or techniques that didn't work. With carbon, I have the opportunity to think about the entire build process before I spend a dime on tooling or a minute on an actual frame, which is what I'm doing now. So far this is working out really well.

I originally planned on doing tube to tube, wrapped style construction similar to Carl Strong, Crumpton, and Land Shark, Kirk Lee, etc. But, after looking at those models and comparing them to how production frames are made I saw an opportunity to apply some of the production frame technologies to custom frames. I would take an above mentioned custom frame of over a bike off the shelf any day because the quality is so much better. There is an opportunity, though, to reduce frame weight and improve overall performance by making bladder molded frame parts. This is the big, expensive, complicated challenge that I'm working on. How do you make a bicycle frame as technologically advanced as a Trek Madone in custom geometries? This is what I'm after, and honestly, it might take a while.

I'm motivated to bring something new to this part of the custom market, and push the envelope everywhere I can. The owner of a business that is only responsible for the well-being of one person (the owner) gets to take big risks and pursue whatever the hell they want, right? I plan on taking full advantage of this while I can.

[steve garro]

how many frames did it take for you to reach this point? To Quote you>>>>>>I feel my frames are superior in terms of overall quality, design, and integrated features, but I found these difficult to convey in an obvious way to the customer. When asked the question, “why should I buy an Argonaut?” I found myself giving overly technical, convoluted answers because the difference between my bikes and the other top builders are slight, and somewhat insignificant.
- Just curious - Garro.

[bfarver]

Hi Steve,

Looking at that statement in this context makes me second guess my choice of wording. Do I think my frames are "superior" to everything else on the market? That's a pretty impossible statement to make and back up.
A more accurate reflection of how I feel about my frames is that I strive to achieve the highest possible standard of quality.
I took a couple of months off from building this last fall for personal reasons, and during that time I had the opportunity to reflect on where I was succeeding and where I wasn't with my business. That time off is what resulted in this decision, and so far it's been the right one for me.

- Ben

[bfarver]

Hey Velocipeders,

I recently posted a Parlee frame I test rode in the classified section and got some goading to give an update on what's been going on here at Argonaut. It looks like the last time I posted anything here was in June, so an update is long overdue. I'm really excited to announce that the new Argonaut carbon frame is well on its' way to production. ICE just started cutting tooling to make the frame parts, and I'm on track to debut the first frame at NAHBS in March. Check out my blog for some long winded diatribes on frame design and Argonaut carbon backstory.

For those readers who are reluctant to click on a link - a brief update. About a year ago I decided to give up my steel efforts in the pursuit of better performance and a more sustainable business model. My intention was to follow a similar carbon frame fabrication as other small builders in the industry, or tube to tube style construction. I felt confident in my decision because the custom carbon market is much less saturated than the custom steel market, and I already had most of the tooling required to do tube to tube carbon. However, once I started really getting into it I found I was falling into the same trap I fell into with steel. Not having anything new to bring to the market and heavily investing in a labor intensive fabrication wouldn't get me much farther than I got with steel.

On top of that, tube to tube carbon frames, although better tailored to the individual rider, I believe are technilogically inferior to Trek and Specialized high end carbon frames. Those companies have put a lot of resources into developing their carbon technology, and it shows. The Madone and Tarmac, and now Venge are very sophisticated bicycles. With steel, the custom builder has the ability to produce a higher quality frame than a big shop because they can afford to spend more money on better materials. However, with carbon it's not simply the material - it's how the material is used and manipulated in the frame as a whole, not just the individual parts.

I saw a gap in the marketplace and chose to pursue it. The custom carbon market is being served well by a handfull of builders, and the bigger companies are pushing the envelope in terms of overall frame performance. But, no one is really pushing the performance envelope on the custom side. I've developed a way of making a carbon fiber bicycle frame that utilizes pre impregnated carbon fiber material and latex bladder molds, yet with the ability to customize the layup and geometry to the individual rider. Bladder molded parts are lighter and stronger than tubes glued together with a reinforcing wrap. However, because the aluminum molds are machined, it's very difficult to make parts in more than one size. This is why most molded carbon frames are only available in a few sizes. The technological advancement I've accomplished with the help of Innovative Composite Engineering is on the tooling side. We've developed a way to make custom geometries with aluminum tooling in a cost effective way. This cost savings doesn't come from cutting corners in materials or assembly. It comes from a sophisticated approach to tooling the individual frame parts.

An enlightening byproduct of our manufacturing model is that the real value in the Argonaut frame is not that it can be made in custom geometries. It's that each frame part can be made with flex characteristics specific to the end user. There is value in proper fit and rider tailored frame geometry, but in my opinion that value is oversold. The real value is how the frame fits the physique and riding style of the individual.

Anyway, I could go on and on. Thanks for taking a second to read this and don't hesitate with any questions.

- Ben

[e-RICHIE]

goading is the new black atmo.
ben, this is awesome stuff.

Hey Velocipeders,

I recently posted a Parlee frame I test rode in the classified section and got some goading to give an update on what's been going on here at Argonaut. It looks like the last time I posted anything here was in June, so an update is long overdue. I'm really excited to announce that the new Argonaut carbon frame is well on its' way to production. ICE just started cutting tooling to make the frame parts, and I'm on track to debut the first frame at NAHBS in March. Check out my blog for some long winded diatribes on frame design and Argonaut carbon backstory.

For those readers who are reluctant to click on a link - a brief update. About a year ago I decided to give up my steel efforts in the pursuit of better performance and a more sustainable business model. My intention was to follow a similar carbon frame fabrication as other small builders in the industry, or tube to tube style construction. I felt confident in my decision because the custom carbon market is much less saturated than the custom steel market, and I already had most of the tooling required to do tube to tube carbon. However, once I started really getting into it I found I was falling into the same trap I fell into with steel. Not having anything new to bring to the market and heavily investing in a labor intensive fabrication wouldn't get me much farther than I got with steel.

On top of that, tube to tube carbon frames, although better tailored to the individual rider, I believe are technilogically inferior to Trek and Specialized high end carbon frames. Those companies have put a lot of resources into developing their carbon technology, and it shows. The Madone and Tarmac, and now Venge are very sophisticated bicycles. With steel, the custom builder has the ability to produce a higher quality frame than a big shop because they can afford to spend more money on better materials. However, with carbon it's not simply the material - it's how the material is used and manipulated in the frame as a whole, not just the individual parts.

I saw a gap in the marketplace and chose to pursue it. The custom carbon market is being served well by a handfull of builders, and the bigger companies are pushing the envelope in terms of overall frame performance. But, no one is really pushing the performance envelope on the custom side. I've developed a way of making a carbon fiber bicycle frame that utilizes pre impregnated carbon fiber material and latex bladder molds, yet with the ability to customize the layup and geometry to the individual rider. Bladder molded parts are lighter and stronger than tubes glued together with a reinforcing wrap. However, because the aluminum molds are machined, it's very difficult to make parts in more than one size. This is why most molded carbon frames are only available in a few sizes. The technological advancement I've accomplished with the help of Innovative Composite Engineering is on the tooling side. We've developed a way to make custom geometries with aluminum tooling in a cost effective way. This cost savings doesn't come from cutting corners in materials or assembly. It comes from a sophisticated approach to tooling the individual frame parts.

An enlightening byproduct of our manufacturing model is that the real value in the Argonaut frame is not that it can be made in custom geometries. It's that each frame part can be made with flex characteristics specific to the end user. There is value in proper fit and rider tailored frame geometry, but in my opinion that value is oversold. The real value is how the frame fits the physique and riding style of the individual.

Anyway, I could go on and on. Thanks for taking a second to read this and don't hesitate with any questions.

- Ben

[the bottle ride]

Awesome- I have been following the progression since earlier this year and I am really pumped for you and interested to see what you come up with. It really is bold to basically start over in a medium- I give you credit for that.

[bfarver]

Awesome- I have been following the progression since earlier this year and I am really pumped for you and interested to see what you come up with. It really is bold to basically start over in a medium- I give you credit for that.

Thanks! Yeah, a little scary at first, especially turning customers who wanted steel bikes after I had made the decision away felt bad. But, I knew I couldn't accomplish what I wanted without putting 100% of my effort into it. I'd never have enough time if I kept trying to make steel bikes too, and there are plenty of other great steel builders to send people to.

Carbon is such a cool material. At first I lamented no longer working with steel and hoped I could make some side project brazed bikes once the carbon frames were on the road. No more, though, carbon is my new muse!

- Ben

[TRuss]

I got to catch up on your blog earlier today. It is really nice to be able to follow the progress of this project so closely. It looks great and I am looking forward to seeing the final product in Sacramento. Best of luck.

[bfarver]

I got to catch up on your blog earlier today. It is really nice to be able to follow the progress of this project so closely. It looks great and I am looking forward to seeing the final product in Sacramento. Best of luck.

Thanks for reading the blog! I'm so glad you can make sense of it, and can't wait for you to see the real thing at NAHBS.

[bigbill]

Hopefully you keep my dimensions on file, maybe I'll want a carbon in the future. If you put the same detail into the carbon frames that you did with steel, they'll be great.

[bfarver]

Hopefully you keep my dimensions on file, maybe I'll want a carbon in the future. If you put the same detail into the carbon frames that you did with steel, they'll be great.

Got them right here, and absolutely. I aim to please!

[joosttx]

Ben, are you going have one your your new carbon fiber bikes at NAHBS? Really looking to see one.