The Vaccine Thread

[echappist]

Shingles is some horrendous stuff. I had a flare up about three years ago, and it felt as if someone bruised my ribs. Unfortunately, I'm too young to get the vaccine. Insurance certainly won't pay for it, and I'm not sure if anyone would actually administer me a shot...

[Rich Beaudoin]

I work for Pfizer. In my career I’ve worked for three other pharma companies who are among the leaders in the industry.
While I work remotely, my experience has been that Pfizer is the most straight-forward and ethically run employer in my career (and I’m including my bike industry employers prior to pharma).
As a customer-facing employee, I’m not allowed to visit customers in person while covid spreads. I have been working from home since mid-March and I’m told that may continue to summer or beyond.
If the vaccines were developed by the Trump administration I wouldn’t have confidence, but these mRNA vaccines are well researched and intelligently designed. I’ll get vaccinated when it’s available to me.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Shingles is some horrendous stuff. I had a flare up about three years ago, and it felt as if someone bruised my ribs. Unfortunately, I'm too young to get the vaccine. Insurance certainly won't pay for it, and I'm not sure if anyone would actually administer me a shot...

I had shingles this past May at age 39. Apparently it can arise from stress or physical exertion. Certainly I was stressed at that time and I had done a couple metric centuries in the days preceding the flare up. It felt like someone had hit me in the ribs/back with a bat. I was pretty ignorant of shingles and began to worry that maybe there was a problem with a kidney or I had fallen or walked into a wall at speed and not remembered it (not a pleasant thought). It took my doc just a few minutes to diagnose the shingles during a telehealth appointment and the antiviral drugs worked pretty quickly in my case. After reading more about it and talking with others I feel really fortunate my case wasn't longer lasting or more intense and was on my back/side and not my scalp/face.

Anyhow, my doc told me to get the shingles vaccine after about six months though she said it pretty casually and did not mention it at a general appointment I had last month. After my case I talked to several friends a good bit older than me who said they've tried to get the vaccine on several occasions and the pharmacy never has it. I'm trying to keep my stress in check.

You have checked with your insurance provider and they confirmed they don't cover the vaccine? It's my understanding that having shingles changes the recommendations for the vaccine so I would be interested to know if your doctor, knowing your history, has told you you're too young or otherwise not a candidate.

[bigbill]

As soon as it is available to me. VA will get a supply and after the most vulnerable are taken care of, the next group which includes me, will get it. I've got Lupus so my immune system is a little whack, I got the flu shot about a month ago.

In my military career, I did the full series of anthrax vaccinations, smallpox which sucked because I was vaccinated as a child so I had to have twice the number of sticks, and all the standard typhoid, yellow fever, Hep B, and what seemed like a tetanus every other year. This shot will be nothing.

[echappist]

I had shingles this past May at age 39. Apparently it can arise from stress or physical exertion. Certainly I was stressed at that time and I had done a couple metric centuries in the days preceding the flare up. It felt like someone had hit me in the ribs/back with a bat. I was pretty ignorant of shingles and began to worry that maybe there was a problem with a kidney or I had fallen or walked into a wall at speed and not remembered it (not a pleasant thought). It took my doc just a few minutes to diagnose the shingles during a telehealth appointment and the antiviral drugs worked pretty quickly in my case. After reading more about it and talking with others I feel really fortunate my case wasn't longer lasting or more intense and was on my back/side and not my scalp/face.

Anyhow, my doc told me to get the shingles vaccine after about six months though she said it pretty casually and did not mention it at a general appointment I had last month. After my case I talked to several friends a good bit older than me who said they've tried to get the vaccine on several occasions and the pharmacy never has it. I'm trying to keep my stress in check.

You have checked with your insurance provider and they confirmed they don't cover the vaccine? It's my understanding that having shingles changes the recommendations for the vaccine so I would be interested to know if your doctor, knowing your history, has told you you're too young or otherwise not a candidate.

Thanks for the info. I should have raised the issue at my annual check-up.

Chances are, I'll have to pay out of pocket, but that's okay.

[pmac]

The 30% saying "no" don't have much to say.

Curious to hear from them.

I was a no vote. Not sure how the question was worded when I replied, but a no response made sense at the time. I'm a scientist in the biomedical area and I believe in the value of immunizations, but given the circumstances surrounding development of these vaccines, the pressure being applied for their rapid approval and the limited scope of the trials I have reservations. I'm extremely fortunate in being able to work remotely and limit my exposure to others, all the while enjoying lots of outdoor activities well distanced from others. I'm pretty far down the priority list (just turned 65, but I assume that alone doesn't make me high priority), and expect to get vaccinated once I have the option, but by then there should be a much larger test group which hopefully will address one of my concerns.

On a related topic, the ongoing failure of the current administration to take a leadership position in any aspect of this pandemic, most recently an apparent absence of a meaningful plan to facilitate distribution of the vaccine, may mean that reluctance of many to get vaccinated won't have much impact right away anyway.

[beeatnik]

New York Times giving me an out. If all 268.7 Americans get vaccinated before me can I opt out?

Myself:

vax.jpeg

First Responder/Disaster Worker Wife:

vax2.jpg

[slwrnu]

I will put my hand up for this. In the UK first in line are the health workers and the very elderly. I am neither but do have a bit of relevant medical history so I expect to receive notification a few months into next year. This is a huge logistical operation and we do not have enough workers to administer the vaccine and to go about the rest of their work. It is not clear if we have to pay for it but I do not care at all.

[sk_tle]

I haven't voted but I will see what the options are.

1. I am not part of the population in risk
2. I don't have daily social contact with population in risk. Working from home, I don't see my parents a lot as they are living in another country and I won't visit them for Christmas to avoid risks.
3. I think I can afford to wait with the current measures.

So I will first see if :
- there are enough vaccines available for all the people in risk
- if we get to choose which vaccine we can take
- what are the effect like on ICU/death curbs in the immediate weeks after people in risk are vaccinated.
- if there are unexpected undesired effect for any of the vaccines when a larger sample has been vaccinated.

Until then I will continue applying social distances and keep the mask on when outside of home as requested by law in my country. I am pretty sure I will eventually get vaccinated but I'd like to first test if there are traces of the virus on my own body, i.e. if I didn't had it already first.

[Tom]

That's an interesting idea, administer an antibody test to everyone at the same time they get vaccinated. It would be very interesting to get a good sample to know how many people appear to have been sick and it wasn't definitive. I still think everyone who can should get vaccinated, even with antibodies a belt and suspenders approach can't hurt.

[holliscx]

Not trying to toot the no horn at all but genuinely curious what would the worst case scenario be if something terrible came of this down the road? Growing up I always heard children of thalidomide but what are some of the dark stories about vaccines or drugs gone wrong? I bet there are some unbelievable stories within the pharmaceutical industry because people dying in trials is real, right? If anyone wants to enlighten me what is the worst case scenario for the C19 vaccine?

There was an interesting article in the NYT yesterday about the trial participants who received the placebo now wishing to receive the vaccine and the ethics of this for it would curtail the trial looking at long term side effects or outcomes. I've never wrapped my head around this but I think anyone who wishes to participate in a trial should complete it. Isn't it too convenient to opt out doesn't that null the whole point of participating in a trial? Obviously, a fine line for someone who is vulnerable but raises a lot of interesting questions.

[vertical_doug]

Not trying to toot the no horn at all but genuinely curious what would the worst case scenario be if something terrible came of this down the road? Growing up I always heard children of thalidomide but what are some of the dark stories about vaccines or drugs gone wrong? I bet there are some unbelievable stories within the pharmaceutical industry because people dying in trials is real, right? If anyone wants to enlighten me what is the worst case scenario for the C19 vaccine?

There was an interesting article in the NYT yesterday about the trial participants who received the placebo now wishing to receive the vaccine and the ethics of this for it would curtail the trial looking at long term side effects or outcomes. I've never wrapped my head around this but I think anyone who wishes to participate in a trial should complete it. Isn't it too convenient to opt out doesn't that null the whole point of participating in a trial? Obviously, a fine line for someone who is vulnerable but raises a lot of interesting questions.

FDA has a very thorough compliance/oversight program for clinical investigations and human subjects. Any adverse results are reported. All the companies announcing vaccine programs currently are also listed on stock exchanges, they have a secondary responsibility to file any issues with SEC for shareholders information.

I have an investment in a VC company that has reported adverse clinical result in a human trials related to oncology. The report is for the most part immediate, and the program goes on hold while the FDA conducts an investigation. It takes however long it takes. This is not something people in the pharma community will mess with unless they want to end in disbarment and/or prison. If you consider the high profile global focus of COVID Vaccine, anyone that monkeyed with data is going into a dark hole with no key.

Thalidomide was 60 years ago, and part of the problem was the world was not as global as it is now so no one was seeing the global picture. I think procedure and scrutiny in place now is much more robust.

Obviously, there are still issues with pharma companies as Purdue showed with Oxy. But this typically is with oversubscribing or stretching the usage beyond approved areas which is a sales/marketing issue. Vaccines have a much more narrow focus here, so I don't think you will find any cowboys.

(If you listen to the fine print in a pharm drug commercial in the US, every possible side effect is quickly listed. )

[ides1056]

This is worth reading: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/u...gtype=Homepage

I have not had the flu in decades, maybe three. When my wife came down with Covid symptoms in February I took care of her but did not get sick. By contrast three people she came into contact with did. We both tested negative for antibodies.

I had shingles years ago. It felt like a pulled abdominal muscle, but as soon as I saw the lesions I knew and called my doctor whose primary concern was the pain. I told her this wasn't pain, pain is when you want to throw up. It cleared up fairly quickly.

My response to the two shots I had yesterday was very unpleasant. Basically I felt like I had the flu overnight, and I will go slowly today because I am whacked.

Every doctor I know has gotten the shingles vaccine as soon as they could, and flu shots as well because of the work they do. I followed suit.

[davids]

Re the Shingles vaccine: I was very happy to be vaccinated, as every story I've ever heard from someone who's contracted it has been horrific. I had a significant reaction to both my doses - felt like I had the flu for about 24 hours both times. But I knew it was just my reaction to the vaccine, so I curled up with a book and rode it out.

I've been getting an annual flu shot for over 20 years. I've still had the flu a few times even with the vaccines, and I understand why. But I will always get my annual flu shot. Always.

[Too Tall]

Amazing...I was friends with a gent who was affected by Thalidomide. Moving on.

Going in for my followup Shingles in about 10 mins.

[Paul Jacobs]

The Thalidomide scandal was a significant disaster. Thalidomide is still in use but is clearly no longer indicated for treating morning sickness in early pregnancy. The difference is that pregnant women did not die from not taking Thalidomide. (In case anyone misreads this, I meant there to be a double negative)

Covid-19 has a significant mortality and the long term consequences for survivors have yet to be fully determined. If a vaccine offers protection against catching Covid-19 then not taking the vaccine will also have a mortality. The question is whether this will be outweighed by some yet to be discovered complications of any particular vaccine. I still believe that the immediate and possible long term effects of Covid-19 (I stayed at home and was only very ill for about one day and tested positive for Covid-19 but still can't breathe properly 9 months later) are likely significantly to exceed any vaccine complications.

[Too Tall]

The Thalidomide scandal was a significant disaster. Thalidomide is still in use but is clearly no longer indicated for treating morning sickness in early pregnancy. The difference is that pregnant women did not die from not taking Thalidomide. (In case anyone misreads this, I meant there to be a double negative)

Covid-19 has a significant mortality and the long term consequences for survivors have yet to be fully determined. If a vaccine offers protection against catching Covid-19 then not taking the vaccine will also have a mortality. The question is whether this will be outweighed by some yet to be discovered complications of any particular vaccine. I still believe that the immediate and possible long term effects of Covid-19 (I stayed at home and was only very ill for about one day and tested positive for Covid-19 but still can't breathe properly 9 months later) are likely significantly to exceed any vaccine complications.

* One hr. later not dead yet.

Paul, what you said as well as a shared responsibility. Yes?

[Clean39T]

(If you listen to the fine print in a pharm drug commercial in the US, every possible side effect is quickly listed. )

I always figured that was to prevent someone from suing them for side effects....no? Some of the side-effects you hear on TV sound way worse than what they are trying to cure..

[GeneK]

I always figured that was to prevent someone from suing them for side effects....no? Some of the side-effects you hear on TV sound way worse than what they are trying to cure..

No doubt that’s the intent. I can assure you, as a surgeon, that clearly and explicitly explaining the risks of an operation in NO way protects from lawsuits when that complication occurs.

[GeneK]

And yes, I will take the Covid vaccine when available. BTW a visit to a hospital Covid ward might change some minds re: taking it.