Richard Sachs Cycles

[edoz]

You've done a lot to help new builders, and continue to do so. Thanks, btw. When did you start giving back, and what made you decide to? Also, you talked about feeling like something's missing skill wise. You're obviously doing well with what you've got, but if you could learn something from another builder who would it be and what would you want to learn from them?

[e-RICHIE]

Gets it!!!

From someone who has never filed a miter in anger I respect this stance. If you wanna play the game, ante up. It just makes sense.
Thanks for giving those of us, builders and not, a place to get together and share something we all enjoy so much.

Jayme

you're very welcome jayme atmo.

Hey, you're view count in a day is going to pass mine for a week. I suppose that's 'cause you're Richards Sachs and I'm not! Richard, thanks for posting up on SO and I am really enjoying it. My question is, I heard someone say "Richard says he hasn't built enough frames to miter with anything other than a file". Is that true? I suppose I'm paraphrasing, but I'd sure love to hear it straight from the man himself. I'm doing all my miters with files, still haven't tried to do them any other way. I enjoy cutting them by hand.

is that quote something i said to someone, or something i said about myself?
either way, those words never left my mouth. and though i am an opinionated
eff, no version of that thought was ever said to or directed at another soul. ps
i miter with a file atmo.

I remember the first time we spoke. You called match to talk about something. Martin told me "Richard Sachs is on the phone for you." I'm like WTF! Anyway, I'm glad you called and consider you a pal and mentor. Thanks. Before I get too sappy- got any good stories you want to share about the Whitcomb USA days?

How many National Championships were won riding your bikes?

thanks for all of this, cpg amo. you are one of the few living and working effbuilders who have
come up in an environment that i believe is optimal, but oh so rare in this era. and you use this
experience well, too.

the 'cross team has won 10 national championships since 1997. on the road side, too many
years have passed for me to remember or care. back before the LA era (as in the 1984 games)
i had near to 30 different cats on my frames who were on the national teams of usa, canada,
and abroad. the smart money is on that a few jerseys were won from clients in this group. ps
all but one was a paying client. the following snipped reply from a 90s interview addresses this:

Though I have always raced, during my earlier years I could count among my clients over two dozen National team riders, men and women, from the USA and Canada. Each and every one a willing and paying customer. I took a lot of pride in this during the seventies, but it is a phenomenon that can’t be repeated… particularly because the USCF has mandated the national team riders must use the “official bike” of the Federation, whatever it happens to be in a given year. This used to grate me, but my attitude has tempered with time. Since 1980 I have always sponsored a regional team consisting of budding cat 1 and 2 Seniors. Through the years there have been a few groups of Juniors, and lately a few groups of Seniors, too, that I have “mandated” must use the official bike of the Richard Sachs Racing Team!!

ps i'll post separately about the witcomb usa anecdotes, but remind me if i forget!

have a hard time expressing what i am seeking, at times -- sorry, ..... but do any or all the above have a sinificant meaning, point/place in time or marketing ...
not one of yo sponsors ..
or just jems from yo pantry or likes..

ronnie

hi ronnie atmo.
re the original questions, yeah - they all have meaning to me. it must be a rosebud thing.

Richard,

From Houston 1.0 (may it live forever) you encouraged me, made me feel like a pro and a peer. I can't quantify if or how it helped but I do know it was very helpful.

my pleasure, nick.
you are doing with CF what no one is has or is.
to borrow from what i posted to garro, if i was gonna do CF i'd wanna occupy the space you are in atmo.

You've done a lot to help new builders, and continue to do so. Thanks, btw. When did you start giving back, and what made you decide to? Also, you talked about feeling like something's missing skill wise. You're obviously doing well with what you've got, but if you could learn something from another builder who would it be and what would you want to learn from them?

hi eric, and thanks atmo.

i don't give back out of a conscious or deliberate effort, or some magnanimous streak that runs through me atmo.
working alone for as long as i have, and also loving to hear and read my own thoughts, it's become very easy to share.
the internet makes it so seamless to share and have all of it cached forever.

as far as the "learning something" and the "from whom" stuff go, my sense is that the truth is 1) nothing, and 2) no one.
if you meet your buddha, kill him, and all that...

[jerk]

yo-
you've mentioned numerous times about how you wouldn't/couldn't do what you did to get where you are in today's day and age. there aren't a lot of production shops anymore building bikes. how can the craft continue without the hours of experience both mundane and sacred most of your generation of builders went through? i think the modern crop of builders get the design thing, get the history thing and fetishize the handwork thing- but without the production environment how are good frames suppossed to come about? through awesome paint jobs and flickr sites alone? or should anyone with some fire in his belly move to people's factory 1178 in shanghai and start inhaling epoxy with the locals?

[Dave Kirk]

yo-
you've mentioned numerous times about how you wouldn't/couldn't do what you did to get where you are in today's day and age. there aren't a lot of production shops anymore building bikes. how can the craft continue without the hours of experience both mundane and sacred most of your generation of builders went through? i think the modern crop of builders get the design thing, get the history thing and fetishize the handwork thing- but without the production environment how are good frames suppossed to come about? through awesome paint jobs and flickr sites alone? or should anyone with some fire in his belly move to people's factory 1178 in shanghai and start inhaling epoxy with the locals?

This is the same question I wanted to ask but I have one added twist.

Does it, in the long run, matter if the torch isn't passed on?

Dave

[Jonathan]

Richie,

Like several other have said, I too value your friendship and sometimes unknowing guidance. I consider you a pal whether bikes and tubes are discussed or not and you'll always be.

Now for the discussion. You shared with me in an email or phone call 3-4 years ago that you don't look within the industry or niche for inspiration, but outside. At the time you pointed me to Nakashima. Have there been any recent sources you can share?

[e-RICHIE]

yo-
you've mentioned numerous times about how you wouldn't/couldn't do what you did to get where you are in today's day and age.

that's a fact jack.

there aren't a lot of production shops anymore building bikes.

there's no fooling the jerk atmo.
or, phrased another way - the market has spoken.

how can the craft continue without the hours of experience both mundane and sacred most of your generation of builders went through?

the, er - craft, is a stepchild of the industry atmo. the only reason it ever existed was that there was (or used to be) a cap
on the quality level that a factory or production facility could reach. that all changed, and it also has not been the status
quo for at least 2 decades atmo. the need to go to a frame shop to get a frame worthy of competition was ever present
back before the mtb era ushered in new technologies which led to - years later - what we have now. and atmo i have
said as much for a looooong time - most factories are producing frames to a higher leverl of quality and to better specs
than most cats who are in the framebuilding niche as we now know it. the consumer base knows it too.

i think the modern crop of builders get the design thing, get the history thing and fetishize the handwork thing-

i am not a student of the history of all this but only know about it from living through it. there really is nothing to revere
or fetishi-ize over atmo. back in the day, the rank and file framebuilders made what they made as well as they made it
because industry could not. the smart money says this quote is the right one for this here issue:

Tradition consists of retaining transmitted forms and techniques in one's mind when producing a contemporary piece.
Tradition is always changing. A mere copy of an old piece has not changed; it is nearly the same as its prototype of
four hundred years ago. Tradition consists of creating something new with what one has inherited.

but without the production environment how are good frames suppossed to come about? through awesome paint jobs and flickr sites alone? or should anyone with some fire in his belly move to people's factory 1178 in shanghai and start inhaling epoxy with the locals?

who really cares?
why does it matter?
on one hand, this all reminds me of a documentary that was pivotal in shaping my life.
the luthier, jim d'aquisto, said in an interview that folks are always asking him to teach
them. jimmy show me this. jimmy how do you do that? etc. he leans to the camera and
says (in so many words) that folks can't learn from him or in an environment like his. he'll
make some cuts. or inlay some pearl. or spray some varnish. and then he won't repeat
the step(s) for another 8 weeks. like luthiers, framebuilders produce slowly and deliberately,
and in most cases, work alone because they are not joiners, quota types, or even very
industrious by nature. that's not an environment where learning will occur atmo. showing
is not teaching, and the way to forge a path is to learn (or be taught...). here, buy the
same film that turned my life on its end when i first saw it 30 years ago atmo. XXXX

and on the other hand, all of this is like another movie that reminds me of the, er - craft.
was it hang em high or fist full of dollars where the clint eastward character helps a mamby
pamby town full of timid people by training them to take care of their own in the face of
adversity. at the very end, when the town is painted red, and all of its citizens are armed
and waiting for the bad guys to ride in, he (the clint guy) saddles up and leaves. there's a
dwarf character that approaches him and wonders why he's now riding away. the reply he
gets is that the people have the information and need the willpower to work through it all.
it's not his problem, it's their problem atmo. i see a parallel.

[e-RICHIE]

Richie,

Like several other have said, I too value your friendship and sometimes unknowing guidance. I consider you a pal whether bikes and tubes are discussed or not and you'll always be.

Now for the discussion. You shared with me in an email or phone call 3-4 years ago that you don't look within the industry or niche for inspiration, but outside. At the time you pointed me to Nakashima. Have there been any recent sources you can share?

any cycling heroes?

Through the years and over the eras, the following have been my muses, some for a fleeting moment, and others for a longer time: Bill Hurlow, Yoshiaki Nagasawa, Faliero and Alberto Masi, Dario Pegoretti, Jim D’aquisto, Jil Sander, Phillipe Dufour, George Nakashima, my wife a.k.a. “The Lovely Deb”, Paul Laubin, – aw shit, shut me up already.

[DCT]

richard

thanks for starting this smoked out section and for putting yourself out there. im looking forward to getting another sachs frame when the spot comes up.

hoping i can get out and watch you and flux race in rhode island.

[csbmo]

any cycling heroes?

Through the years and over the eras, the following have been my muses, some for a fleeting moment, and others for a longer time: Bill Hurlow, Yoshiaki Nagasawa, Faliero and Alberto Masi, Dario Pegoretti, Jim D’aquisto, Jil Sander, Phillipe Dufour, George Nakashima, my wife a.k.a. “The Lovely Deb”, Paul Laubin, – aw shit, shut me up already.

[Jonathan]

any cycling heroes?
]

people who catch your eye as extrordinary for whatever reason.

[nahtnoj]

Just wow. Thank you for making (all of) this happen.

[Flux]

Richard,

How many different phases of obsession do you go through on a daily basis (on average)?

Also; what's your favourite colour?

Thank You.

Justin

[e-RICHIE]

Richard,

How many different phases of obsession do you go through on a daily basis (on average)?

Also; what's your favourite colour?

Thank You.

Justin

.....

[Archibald]

and on the other hand, all of this is like another movie that reminds me of the, er - craft.
was it hang em high or fist full of dollars where the clint eastward character helps a mamby
pamby town full of timid people by training them to take care of their own in the face of
adversity. at the very end, when the town is painted red, and all of its citizens are armed
and waiting for the bad guys to ride in, he (the clint guy) saddles up and leaves. there's a
dwarf character that approaches him and wonders why he's now riding away. the reply he
gets is that the people have the information and need the willpower to work through it all.
it's not his problem, it's their problem atmo. i see a parallel.

High Plains Drifter. But Clint only acts like he's cruised, he's actually lurking about in the background and kills all the bad guys one by one.

[Archibald]

Dude, it's all been said already, but you are the man.

xoxo

[Alistair]

Richard,

I just wanted to echo what's already been said here. You've been very generous with your time, advice and encouragement over the years to many people trying to figure out how to build frames. I've been reading your posts and sifting through your pictures for almost 10 years now. There have been many times when I've "triangulated" my position w.r.t some frame building issue using your advice. Thanks, sincerely.

Lastly, something I just wanted to get on the record. I called Richard in early 1998 to make some inquiries into how to go about learning framebuilding (he was running an ad in Velo news at the time that said he built the frames and answered the phone. It was true, he did answer the phone). We had a nice chat and he sent me a postcard with some encouraging words on it.
After I returned from a UBI course later that year I wrote to him wondering about the possibility of building without using a jig. We had used jigs at UBI but I couldn't afford one so I was wondering about alternatives. He wrote me back another postcard telling me not to be shy and to give him a call and he'd talk me through it over the phone.
I never made that call because shortly afterwards I secured a job at a framebuilding shop and moved out west. No sense in bothering this nice chap in Connecticut when I was going to learn everything I needed to know on the job. It didn't quite turn out that way, the job evaporated almost immediately (that's a story for a different time) but luckily for me the internet came to the rescue as builders began to share their knowledge online through words and pictures. Prominent among these was Richard, not only with his written advice but also his legendary and detailed picture sets, which I've relied on over the years as I've taught myself how to build.
Anyway, the point of me relating all this is to say that before the spotlight got turned on, and this framebuilding thing went all Vegas, before anyone was looking and when no one would know of his good deeds, Richard was offering encouragement and framebuilding advice to complete strangers. I think that this speaks volumes to who he is as a person and as a mentor.

Thanks again.

Alistair.

[Dave Kirk]

Hey Richard,

In your view are there actual fabrication things that many builders focus too much on and worry about and/or others that they should worry about more?

dave

[e-RICHIE]

Hey Richard,

In your view are there actual fabrication things that many builders focus too much on and worry about and/or others that they should worry about more?

dave

atmo the focus appears to be on fabricating a cult of personality first, and then getting the design experience, assembly skills,and
business acumen after that. i don't know where it all started, but it sure seems like the natural progression of the current day frame-
builder is to 1) build a frame, 2) take a picture, 3) blog about it, 4) seek public adoration, 5) go to nahbs, 6) come home and look for
pictures of his frame on the internet, 7) continue his learning curve by working on his 12th frame for his 5th client, 8) use whatever
deposits he left has as cash flow, 9) see that it's not all as it appears, and 10) sells his journeyman fixture on the list serve. note that
i never mention stainless head badges or water jet dropouts from e-machineshop dot com atmo.

[Too Tall]

George Nakashima wanted his furniture to be used. It would likely bother him that today many of his pieces are displayed in museums rather than used as he intended. Care to comment?

[e-RICHIE]

George Nakashima wanted his furniture to be used. It would likely bother him that today many of his pieces are displayed in museums rather than used as he intended. Care to comment?

mebbe 2 percent of his life's work is on display somewhere?
that's tolerable atmo.
at least it's not out in traffic on an open road under an unsuspecting user.