Offset or non-offset seatposts

[caleb]

this is how i've been sorting it in my head. tell me if i'm mistaken.

You're on the right track.

As an exagerated example, take this clever little device that kept southern California emergency rooms in business during the late 90s:



How's that going to handle? In case you were smart enough never to get on a bike set up like this, I'll give you a hint: it's horrible. I have a crooked collar bone to prove it.

When you start jacking your seat forward you're going to get the same results, just less of them.

[justinf]

For the most part, my post is a question, in search of answers. Why would a pro slam the saddle all the way back? Style? That seems hard to believe. The answer has to lie in the relationship between the saddle position and the BB, right? So Tafi, Ballan, etc., want a lot of setback behind the BB. Wouldn't it really stress the saddle rails to push it all the way back? If he had any bike he wanted, completely custom, wouldn't Andrea Tafi want something centered on the rails when he saddles up for the Paris Roubaix?

As for the mass market/pro road racing optimization, I think it's probably somewhere in between. If Specialized maximized all their frames to the geometry of the Schleck brothers, it would be hard to sell a lot of bikes. Sure, the fetish for owning a pro bike would definitely have a draw, but that has limits. If I'm not mistaken, this is why Boonen famously had the sponsor fight with Specialized. They designed a bike that would sell well, and told Boonen to sit on it. He's an odd shaped fellow (relative to the rest of the world) and didn't fit on it.

I'm not saying every company gets it right, especially not Specialized. But Colnago, Merckx, Pinarello, Ridley? Come on.

Nor am I suggesting race bikes are designed way outside of average body dimensions as a rule either, as a Schleck bike would likely be.

[jerk]

For the most part, my post is a question, in search of answers. Why would a pro slam the saddle all the way back? Style? That seems hard to believe. The answer has to lie in the relationship between the saddle position and the BB, right? So Tafi, Ballan, etc., want a lot of setback behind the BB. Wouldn't it really stress the saddle rails to push it all the way back? If he had any bike he wanted, completely custom, wouldn't Andrea Tafi want something centered on the rails when he saddles up for the Paris Roubaix?

As for the mass market/pro road racing optimization, I think it's probably somewhere in between. If Specialized maximized all their frames to the geometry of the Schleck brothers, it would be hard to sell a lot of bikes. Sure, the fetish for owning a pro bike would definitely have a draw, but that has limits. If I'm not mistaken, this is why Boonen famously had the sponsor fight with Specialized. They designed a bike that would sell well, and told Boonen to sit on it. He's an odd shaped fellow (relative to the rest of the world) and didn't fit on it.

those bikes are completely custom. the position isn't style- but italians do as a general rule, slam their saddle all the way back and the custom frames are designed around this fact. i don't think they give a shit about it stressing the rails. the saddles seem to hold up fine even on cobbles.

i like the look- and i like shortish chainstays so my bikes are built to be set up with the saddles slammed all the way back on offset seat posts. except my sachs, 'cause richard thought that looked fucking ghey, and it was his bike. same way when i own a vanilla or a speedvagen i'll have the bike designed around a straight post- 'cause that's the way sacha does it.

anyways-
c

[jerk]

ps every single last one of those motherfuckers are made to measure custom road bikes. that's why i picked-em. none of them are stock geometries- even that specialized thing.

[962]

Allesandro Ballan does not slam his saddle back because he likes the look. There has to be some physio explanation.

well you could also be back and down with the saddle, versus forward and up.

[lavi]

ps every single last one of those motherfuckers are made to measure custom road bikes. that's why i picked-em. none of them are stock geometries- even that specialized thing.

Pozzato's Ridley is killer.

[Dazza]

style
what a load of rubbish
saddles should be mid rail ,to give the saddle the right flex and less strain on the rails and post clamp

First, saddle type.
then determine the correct saddle set back for that rider on that saddle
then take into account the saddle rail dimensions, they all differ, so that makes a nonsense of style.
then the seat post type and it's clamp dimensions in relation to the tube axis
if the frame is a made to measure frame, with a builder or designer using their noggin
rather than speaking style bullshit
then the seat tube angle is a product of the above.
If for example one uses a post that has less set back then another then the seat tube angle could vary by .5 to 1.5 degrees on the drawing board.
Two frames could be exactly the same but for the seat tube angle and top tube length, but the position is the same
and the wheels are in the same place, all handles the same
but one was built for a seat post with set back and then one with none.
Will you lot use your craniums!
because generalising this is just junk retail bike shop talk
for off the shelf stuff, one has to select the seat post to match the saddle to get the correct saddle set back for that rider on his or hers off the shelf bike frame.

Yeah, some times one has to be cranky
because there is so much drivel spoken that my chooks will go off the lay

[Flux]

the basic theory when i was a pro was that it gave you more seated power. a very important thing. regardless off what saddle, post (they were always setback posts btw) or your frame's ST angle. more was better.

some things will never change. why? because.

Tyler Farrar's 2011 Garmin-Cervelo team bike - VeloNews

[Dazza]

ps every single last one of those motherfuckers are made to measure custom road bikes. that's why i picked-em. none of them are stock geometries- even that specialized thing.

then some one stuffed up determining the position data
or plotting the position data to supply to the person drawing the frame
or some some stuffed up drawing the correct frame under the rider
or
equipment was changed
or as normal and most likely
a stupid thick bike rider just shoved the saddle all the way back because he thought that looked cool
even if the seat tube angle was 71 degrees or 74 degrees, they will still shove it back so it looked cool (to their immature minds)
completely ignoring their correct saddle set back amount
and why do I know
all those years of working with bike riders in the national team and the pro teams.
and with the Mapie centre in Italy with our Aussie riders (we had a close relationship, Brian McLean etc etc)
Some are smart and use their heads but many are dumb or are some what lacking even if they use their heads

[corko]

style

Will you lot use your craniums!
because generalising this is just junk retail bike shop talk
for off the shelf stuff, one has to select the seat post to match the saddle to get the correct saddle set back for that rider on his or hers off the shelf bike frame.

Yeah, some times one has to be cranky
because there is so much drivel spoken that my chooks will go off the lay

or because of the 2nd Test........ (yeah I know low blow!) :-)

[Dazza]

or because of the 2nd Test........ (yeah I know low blow!) :-)

It is (swallow) hard to say, but (gulp)
the poms bowled better
(swallow)
batted better
(cough)
and fielded better
(choke)
and their heads were in a better place
than our tattooed rock stars

Cry sob sob sniff cry!

[corko]

Not often we get to take the Aussies' strides down in their own backyard.... I'm just gloating, but there's a long way to go yet in this series, there will be a bounceback somewhere down the line. BUT life is good at the moment.

Back to the usual programming......

[devlin]

That's alright Dazza. It will be all the more sweeter when they do win. (might be a while though)

[dashDustin]

fit is about where the weight balances, not about KOPS....

I keep going back to this statement.

So how is saddle set back determined? Sounds like it's pretty much "wherever. feels good here."

And since Farrar's bike was brought up, would it kill someone to put the barplug in straight. This picture bugs the hell out of me:
Tyler Farrar's 2011 Garmin-Cervelo team bike - VeloNews

[dpcompt]

style
what a load of rubbish
saddles should be mid rail ,to give the saddle the right flex and less strain on the rails and post clamp

First, saddle type.
then determine the correct saddle set back for that rider on that saddle
then take into account the saddle rail dimensions, they all differ, so that makes a nonsense of style.
then the seat post type and it's clamp dimensions in relation to the tube axis
if the frame is a made to measure frame, with a builder or designer using their noggin
rather than speaking style bullshit
then the seat tube angle is a product of the above.
If for example one uses a post that has less set back then another then the seat tube angle could vary by .5 to 1.5 degrees on the drawing board.
Two frames could be exactly the same but for the seat tube angle and top tube length, but the position is the same
and the wheels are in the same place, all handles the same
but one was built for a seat post with set back and then one with none.
Will you lot use your craniums!
because generalising this is just junk retail bike shop talk
for off the shelf stuff, one has to select the seat post to match the saddle to get the correct saddle set back for that rider on his or hers off the shelf bike frame.

Yeah, some times one has to be cranky
because there is so much drivel spoken that my chooks will go off the lay

i am a buyer and not a seller. but, thank you.
don c.

[chasea]

I thought that the reason seatposts come straight or setback, and saddle have rails instead of one fixed point for attachment, is that we're all different.

On a custom bike, it has most likely been discussed with the builder and taken into consideration. That means a slammed back saddle is a style thing. Otherwise, its because that's the way it needs to be.

3 pages of "this is the way it should be?" Start posting your race results with your opinions.

[sacha white]

not rookie assed shit. designed for the seat to be slammed all the way back.

That's cool and all, but for a bike not to have some room for fore/ aft adjustment designed into it wreaks of rookie mistakes. How do I know? because I was that rookie and I made those mistakes....

Signed,

Capt. Scarlet

[sacha white]

it's an italian thing. italians always have their seats slammed all the way back and the stems slammed all the way down. belgians, germans, dutch, french- middle of the rails. portland straight post. just style i guess!

It's an italiian/ bmx / ill fitting, this is how I set my mountain bike up when I was 12 because I thought it looked cool, thing. That was the least of my poor bike's worries, though...

[Dazza]

That's cool and all, but for a bike not to have some room for fore/ aft adjustment designed into it wreaks of rookie mistakes. How do I know? because I was that rookie and I made those mistakes....

Signed,

Capt. Scarlet

yeah, what Captain Scarlet said
Captain Scarlet.jpg

and one can change saddles
and that new saddle could hold your pelvis in a different position
and or have different saddle rail dimensions
which means your screwed up slammed all the way back saddle might just not allow you to get back enough on your new saddle on a bike with the wrong seat tube angle and post.
or you just don't bother and just think how cool it looks as you lean the bike against the lamp post at the next coffee shop stop.
The reason the saddles are all the way back on the post is because they were limited on those frames/posts to how far they could get it back

just ask Bernard Hinault back circa 1978
crikey this stuff was sorted out by smart people 40 years ago

[Dazza]

That's alright Dazza. It will be all the more sweeter when they do win. (might be a while though)

Ginger and I will be in Melbourne for the Boxing day test
so we hope the game will still be a contest
with the little Urn of Ashes still at stake
Got to give the Poms a hand
they are playing good cricket