Workman/Craftsman/Tailor--What is a suit worth?

[RickM]

this is a major thread drift- but he's having a difficult time doing it and he is trying. his body is pretty destroyed from years of hand work and carpentry- academia is a tough job market, construction is even tougher and he wants to build furniture which is even worse.....so there you go.

jerk - Thanks for your response to my question. Yeah, this thread could go way off course. Not my intent. If your friend, (and best of luck to him) wants to pursue his passion and is willing to endure the costs, then More Power To Him. I don't know anyone who has done anything worthwhile that doesn't have some amount of regrets. They come with the territory. He sounds Serious, which will surely be a help. I can empathize with him and root for him...he's not one of the midlife crisis dilletantes. I've worked with a ton of those types...meh. One of the smarter, (and in a way more poignant) things that e-Richie always notes in his advice to framebuilders - but it applies to anyone pursuing a passion/career/craft, I think - is to not be overly concerned with what others may be doing, or use what others may/may not be doing as a gauge of your own achievements/goals. Very good advice, IMHO.

I have a family member who is a very talented stonemason..he does big-dollar homes and stuff for super-rich types. He also owns/works his own quarry. Stonemasonry and quarry work are killing him. Business is tough, and he spends way too much time chasing those rich folks for money. He is attempting to branch out into decorative pieces, etc.. as a way to augment and eventually replace income from building houses...it'll be easier for him in his encroaching middle age. Like your friend...Kris is only 45 or so but is pretty beat up from the work. Contrary to what many may think...he's not getting rich at it.

Architectural Stonework + Granite Building Stone Supply | Legacy Stoneworks - NY

[Paul]

with expensive off the rack suits you're paying for the design. depending on the designer that is worth it. I'd much rather have a dries van noten suit than the thing in that article.

No, you're subsidising the cost of advertising and marketing for all the overpriced junk they sell

a suit does not need a designer, all it needs is good tailor and an educated customer

Expensive designer suits - insert whatever name you want - are asking a lot of money for something that comes off an assembly line. For the prices they charge (many of them approaching the cost of Savile Row bespoke) the quality of the product and the value for money are seriously lacking.

The differences with the product are significant - it's nothing like comparing an off the rack bike with custom, where the performance advantage is either non existent or marginal at best

[jlwdm]

?..

Expensive designer suits - insert whatever name you want - are asking a lot of money for something that comes off an assembly line. For the prices they charge (many of them approaching the cost of Savile Row bespoke) the quality of the product and the value for money are seriously lacking.

The differences with the product are significant - it's nothing like comparing an off the rack bike with custom, where the performance advantage is either non existent or marginal at best

For me a custom bike is very important for fit, and the purchase of my first custom changed my cycling life. I was an on again off again cyclist and now cycling is an important part of my daily life.

On the other hand I grew up in a smaller town and always wore nicer cloths than most. This interest in clothes happened because the first nine years of my life I lived across the street from a successful men's clothing store owner. Although we moved away our families remained friends. This store owner was successful at selling quality clothing in a town dominated by logging.

I can wear off the rack suits with little tailoring and buy decent clothes, but not really expensive designer suits. I have more Zegna suits and jackets than any other brand and appreciate the fabrics used by Zegna. All of these suits and jackets are purchased on sale so the costs are very low compared to bespoke clothing.

So for me the value of a custom bike is very great and for a bespoke suit not so much. We all have different things that are important to us.

Jeff

[cody.wms]

No, you're subsidising the cost of advertising and marketing for all the overpriced junk they sell

a suit does not need a designer, all it needs is good tailor and an educated customer

Expensive designer suits - insert whatever name you want - are asking a lot of money for something that comes off an assembly line. For the prices they charge (many of them approaching the cost of Savile Row bespoke) the quality of the product and the value for money are seriously lacking.

The differences with the product are significant - it's nothing like comparing an off the rack bike with custom, where the performance advantage is either non existent or marginal at best

I think we need to narrow down to a pricepoint. And more specifically, what you can actually buy with X dollars. So, I think we are talking around two different things, cause I agree that buying a 4-6K suit off the rack doesn't really make any sense when you have a ton of near-can't-miss bespoke options. In that middle* ground, say around $800-1000 or so, where most people will be looking to guy a nice suit, you're much better off with something off the rack than something from most traveling tailors. I see tons of suits made from those interchangeable tailors from Hong Kong, China, and Thailand and they are almost always of incredibly poor construction, and in reality don't have much actual customization at all. At least with a Southwick made suit from Brooks Brothers or someone else, you have a decent amount of margin to take it in or let it out, and a good tailor can make it work for you.

*Still a lot of money.

[jerk]

sorry dood- but you're wrong. a tailor isn't a designer. i don't really care about the materials that much and if i'm buying desinger clothing from a designer i like, i'm buying his or her style and eye.

if i want a stupid marc jacobs sports coat or a leather jacket without a sleeve or a vivienne westwood jugalo jacket - i want it. chase- help me out here.

No, you're subsidising the cost of advertising and marketing for all the overpriced junk they sell

a suit does not need a designer, all it needs is good tailor and an educated customer

Expensive designer suits - insert whatever name you want - are asking a lot of money for something that comes off an assembly line. For the prices they charge (many of them approaching the cost of Savile Row bespoke) the quality of the product and the value for money are seriously lacking.

The differences with the product are significant - it's nothing like comparing an off the rack bike with custom, where the performance advantage is either non existent or marginal at best

[e-RICHIE]

sorry dood- but you're wrong. a tailor isn't a designer. i don't really care about the materials that much and if i'm buying desinger clothing from a designer i like, i'm buying his or her style and eye.

if i want a stupid marc jacobs sports coat or a leather jacket without a sleeve or a vivienne westwood jugalo jacket - i want it. chase- help me out here.

I am a clothes horse an dedicated fashion follower atmo, even though style is more important...

Anyway - I buy labels. If a brand speaks to me, I own it and vice versa. It has less to do with construction, where it's made, and related. I just want a feel good moment when I choose the garment, wear it, or just plain look at it at home. There seems to be a certain type of tailor who runs his business based on comparisons with larger clothing makers, and trades on the we are better because we care, or the they charge too much considering it's factory made, or the you're just buying a label with them but from me you are getting my passion and dedication.

Whatever.

Small doesn't mean anything except small atmo.

[jerk]

what this guy said. dries van noten gives me more of a tingle than some dood with a sewing machine in his tenement apartment. it's just me.....

I am a clothes horse an dedicated fashion follower atmo, even though style is more important...

Anyway - I buy labels. If a brand speaks to me, I own it and vice versa. It has less to do with construction, where it's made, and related. I just want a feel good moment when I choose the garment, wear it, or just plain look at it at home. There seems to be a certain type of tailor who runs his business based on comparisons with larger clothing makers, and trades on the we are better because we care, or the they charge too much considering it's factory made, or the you're just buying a label with them but from me you are getting my passion and dedication.

Whatever.

Small doesn't mean anything except small atmo.

[Paul]

sorry dood- but you're wrong. a tailor isn't a designer. i don't really care about the materials that much and if i'm buying desinger clothing from a designer i like, i'm buying his or her style and eye.

if i want a stupid marc jacobs sports coat or a leather jacket without a sleeve or a vivienne westwood jugalo jacket - i want it. chase- help me out here.

The tailoring trade's broken down into a few different areas - coatmakers, trousermakers, finishers, cutters etc.
The cutter's the guy that handles the measuring, figuration, produces the individual pattern and looks after the fitting - the 'designer' if you like (along with the customer).

A suit doesn't really need designing, the design work's already been done, it's classic, the customer works with the cutter to adapt that to his requirements and aesthetic.

From what I've seen the designer label's contributions to the suit are either fashionable tweaks that look silly when the next big idea comes along or just lower quality re-pro's of what you can get from a proper tailoring house - either way you'll be paying an awful lot of money when you could've got something far superior for a price that's in the same ballpark

[davids]

this is a major thread drift- but he's having a difficult time doing it and he is trying. his body is pretty destroyed from years of hand work and carpentry- academia is a tough job market, construction is even tougher and he wants to build furniture which is even worse.....so there you go.

[davids]

The tailoring trade's broken down into a few different areas - coatmakers, trousermakers, finishers, cutters etc.
The cutter's the guy that handles the measuring, figuration, produces the individual pattern and looks after the fitting - the 'designer' if you like (along with the customer).

A suit doesn't really need designing, the design work's already been done, it's classic, the customer works with the cutter to adapt that to his requirements and aesthetic.

From what I've seen the designer label's contributions to the suit are either fashionable tweaks that look silly when the next big idea comes along or just lower quality re-pro's of what you can get from a proper tailoring house - either way you'll be paying an awful lot of money when you could've got something far superior for a price that's in the same ballpark

I think the distinction is real, and important. These "fashionable tweaks" are precisely the value added by a talented designer.

Personally, I buy custom Hong Kong suits - they're extremely well made and fit me perfectly. And they have the design features I like (narrower lapels, slit pockets, no vents, etc.) They look great on me. But they are not fashionable in the least. And for my purposes (work uniform) that's fine. But for a lot of folks, for whom a suit is a special occasion outfit, fashion is where it's at.

[maunahaole]

I think the distinction is real, and important. These "fashionable tweaks" are precisely the value added by a talented designer.

Personally, I buy custom Hong Kong suits - they're extremely well made and fit me perfectly. And they have the design features I like (narrower lapels, slit pockets, no vents, etc.) They look great on me. But they are not fashionable in the least. And for my purposes (work uniform) that's fine. But for a lot of folks, for whom a suit is a special occasion outfit, fashion is where it's at.

I hear you on this. For some folks, a properly fitting suit is all the fashion that you need.