Hearing Aids

[bironi]

Good discussion.
Thanks Mike for starting it off.
By

[Bob Ross]

Oticon has remote management software which means if you use an app shared with your doc. it is possible to both update your devices AND for them to make adjustments.

Josh, can you elaborate on ^^^this? How much can you adjust your own device's parameters...or can only your audiologist adjust your device's parameters, but you can perform firmware updates without involving the audiologist?

My wife has been wearing state-of-the-art hearing aids for over 20 years now. Currently on her second or third pair of Widex, but I think she may have had some Oticons during these past two decades. One of the things we keep asking for is our own application so that we can make adjustments to her devices without having to travel to see the audiologist. My background/training/degree is as an audio engineer, I understand how multiband compressors/expanders and frequency dividing networks and filters work, plus I have the patience to sit down with my wife and try different settings in the environments where she's most likely to be wearing them and trying to hear. Versus one hour in some stranger's office. So far no one's been able to grant us access to anything remotely like that sort of functionality. Which sucks.

[Clyde]

Laid down $1400 for a new pair of Phillips at Costco last week. Rechargeable so no more batteries. And I demo'd a pair in the store, while they were not all the way tuned to me, the difference was apparent compared to my 6 YO hearing aids. I'm laughing about the bike at the hardware store comparison. Costco sells a ton of RX's, eyeglasses, and hearing aids. The girl who is working on me has been there 8 yrs. (X) like.

[Too Tall]

That's cool Tim. You are on a good road buddy.

Bob, it is unlikely you will ever be able to get your hot hands on the software interface which allows you to tune those hearing aides. My audiologist is able to make any and all changes remotely. Check this out. After my last appointment something seemed really strange. I was using some loaners and I did not pay much attention when she handed me my old aides, which were sent out for repair, as all she did was download my program and done right?

Weeeeeel, something seemed odd. I finally figured out that she has transposed L/R so that my program(s) were flipped.

She was able to reprogram both aides over the internet connection. Boom, very cool.

What you can ask for are pre-programmed profiles. I think Oticon calls them "worlds"...whatever. Example: if I hold the volume button on my left Aide for two seconds it will change to a different "world". You can have a few of these pre-programmed setups. That might be all you need?

[HorsCat]

My mom was recently diagnosed with dementia. She has had a few pairs of hearing aids for some time but stubbornly resisted using them. The doctor who diagnosed her dementia said that her refusal to wear them has contributed meaningfully to her condition.

So . . . my only contribution to this thread is this . . . if you have hearing aids but don't use them, start immediately; if you don't have hearing aids but need them, get them and start using them immediately. Else you could end up like my mom.

[marley]

My mom was recently diagnosed with dementia. She has had a few pairs of hearing aids for some time but stubbornly resisted using them. The doctor who diagnosed her dementia said that her refusal to wear them has contributed meaningfully to her condition.

So . . . my only contribution to this thread is this . . . if you have hearing aids but don't use them, start immediately; if you don't have hearing aids but need them, get them and start using them immediately. Else you could end up like my mom.

Dementia/cognitive decline is associated with hearing loss - people withdraw when they can not follow a conversation and become isolated

Go to a large hospital with an audiology department get tested, follow-up with the ENT Dr and then talk about hearing aids. You can most definitely get good hearing aids at Costco and for a good price

Check out this guys videos for a primer on the topic. https://drcliffaud.com/videos


Beware there is a lot of hype and advertising with these devices - they are not like glasses in that they improve your vision - they only make sounds louder which can suck at times. You need to wear them constantly to adjust to your new "normal".

Hearing loss sucks because it's an unseen disability and like everything we take normal hearing for granted. I am constantly reminding family members do not talk to me from another room, look at me when speaking, do not casually turn your head away or cover your mouth etc.....it sucks to be sitting at table not able to follow a free flowing conversation with more than 3-4 people.

[marley]

Josh, can you elaborate on ^^^this? How much can you adjust your own device's parameters...or can only your audiologist adjust your device's parameters, but you can perform firmware updates without involving the audiologist?

My wife has been wearing state-of-the-art hearing aids for over 20 years now. Currently on her second or third pair of Widex, but I think she may have had some Oticons during these past two decades. One of the things we keep asking for is our own application so that we can make adjustments to her devices without having to travel to see the audiologist. My background/training/degree is as an audio engineer, I understand how multiband compressors/expanders and frequency dividing networks and filters work, plus I have the patience to sit down with my wife and try different settings in the environments where she's most likely to be wearing them and trying to hear. Versus one hour in some stranger's office. So far no one's been able to grant us access to anything remotely like that sort of functionality. Which sucks.

Most have apps that you can control the aids with and the audiologist can load pre-set settings. The Phonak app allows you to fine tune (treble, bass, voice location, noise reduction etc....) which you can then save.

[Bob Ross]

Most have apps that you can control the aids with and the audiologist can load pre-set settings. The Phonak app allows you to fine tune (treble, bass, voice location, noise reduction etc....) which you can then save.

Yeah, my wife's Widex aids offer the end-user a similar sort of very course control; what we're asking for is the very micro-granular level of parameter adjustment like the audiologist uses to construct presets.

[mnoble485]

Good discussion.
Thanks Mike for starting it off.
By

Thanks for the thanks, maybe this will get me off my ass and continue my search.

Mike

[Mark Kelly]

A week and a bit into my new hearing aids and so far overwhelmingly positive.

One weird negative: music. Plucked and struck strings are OK but bowed are awful, the more legato with which they are played the worse it gets. Sounds like three people playing along with tiny violins made of tin. Hopefully adjustment will lessen this effect eventually.

Yes it's a minor thing but since >90% of the music I listen to has a string section it's a problem for me.

[Too Tall]

Couple observations Mark. My audiologist claimed it might take as much as a year for my brain to adapt to hearing a full(er) range once again. I was skeptical, she was correct. Also, ask your Doc. to add a music program. For my Oticon HAs it is selected by holding the left volume button for a three count. EZY

[Mark Kelly]

Thanks, I was aware of the adaptation thing hence the comment regarding adjusting eventually.

I'll ask about the music setting at the follow up.

[spopepro]

I’m on week 3 of having my aids (oticon more 1). Also a positive experience so far except for 2 things.

Live music is impossible. I’m not bothered by recordings, but both when I play solo (bassoon), in the orchestra, or listen live* it sounds like the middle range winds are badly out of tune. I get the harmonic beating and i don’t understand why or even how to describe it to a non musician.

I get a transient high pitched oscillation when wearing headphones or having a conversation in an high reverb room. It sounds a lot like a voltage stage going wrong… but obvi these are digital and that’s not what’s going on. My suspicion is that it’s the feedback suppression going overboard.

For either of these I’d welcome thoughts or suggestions to talk to my audiologist. I’d like to be able to wear them at rehearsal because it’s really hard to hear the conductor.



*this post made during the intermission of Fidelio. The new SF opera staging is really striking.

[Bob Ross]

I'm going to re-read your post and chew on it a bit, and I may then have some thoughts and/or questions for your audiologist...but for now I just gotta say

when I play solo (bassoon)

I love you man.

signed, /fan of the bassoon

[Too Tall]

Oticon as well AND former Bassoon player.

I can not play a simple recorder with it sounding very strange to me while wearing Aides. You might do just fine without them when playing? Listening to loud live music is impossible for me, it just hurts. Listening to live orchestra or sitting in a well designed movie theater is fantastic.

FWIIW I'm aware there are some really slick Aides specifically made for playing music and singing. What I *think is going on is that because your noggin is essentially a part of the instrument harmonics produced and transmited thru your head cause the AIDES to do strange things.

Be hopeful, bet you get this sorted.

PS If you put everything in front of me and some reed blades bet I can still make a decent reed.

[Bob Ross]

it sounds like the middle range winds are badly out of tune. I get the harmonic beating

Pure conjecture, but ^^^those symptoms may be attributable to the latency of the electronics in the aids causing comb filtering when mixed with whatever acoustic sounds your ears and/or bone conduction may still be resolving. The deep tightly-spaced notches in frequency response characteristic of comb filtering can cause some harmonics to be completely obliterated, which would definitely impact pitch discrimination.

[spopepro]

PS If you put everything in front of me and some reed blades bet I can still make a decent reed.

My friend, that's better than me. I scrape and scrape and file and scrape and mediocre is about the best I can hope for. I kid. Sort of. I'm actually in reed hell right now, but I think this batch of cane kind of sucks. Might need to get some new samples to try.

Pure conjecture, but ^^^those symptoms may be attributable to the latency of the electronics in the aids causing comb filtering when mixed with whatever acoustic sounds your ears and/or bone conduction may still be resolving. The deep tightly-spaced notches in frequency response characteristic of comb filtering can cause some harmonics to be completely obliterated, which would definitely impact pitch discrimination.

Interesting. I think that might make sense. It really does only happen in some ranges. From around low Bb to about top space G (about 60 to 200hz) it's fine. Then the next octave is and a half is distressingly horrible. It seems to only really occur to me with the winds--both when I am playing and not playing. I don't notice it in the strings.

Thanks fellas... given me things to think about.

[spopepro]

Got a good adjustment in. The audiologist was on the phone with Oticon support throughout to try and troubleshoot. The biggest offender was the feedback rejection program. Turning it to low helped considerably. I might see if there's a way to turn it even lower... I require bass domes and not a ton of gain so I suspect I could get away with very, very little feedback suppression.

They also updated the firmware and added the new music program. Really strange... it relieved some of the harmonic beating but not all of it. When I'm playing alone it used to be really strong from the 3rd space E through second treble clef space A. Now it's sounds mostly clean in that range, but I get the beats below the staff (bass clef). All in all, it's ok enough now to play with them in while rehearsing, which is good, because I *really* can't hear the conductor at all otherwise.

Hoping some continued adjustment and improvement is going to be possible, but all in all, things are much better for me now.

[Too Tall]

Got a good adjustment in. The audiologist was on the phone with Oticon support throughout to try and troubleshoot. The biggest offender was the feedback rejection program. Turning it to low helped considerably. I might see if there's a way to turn it even lower... I require bass domes and not a ton of gain so I suspect I could get away with very, very little feedback suppression.

They also updated the firmware and added the new music program. Really strange... it relieved some of the harmonic beating but not all of it. When I'm playing alone it used to be really strong from the 3rd space E through second treble clef space A. Now it's sounds mostly clean in that range, but I get the beats below the staff (bass clef). All in all, it's ok enough now to play with them in while rehearsing, which is good, because I *really* can't hear the conductor at all otherwise.

Hoping some continued adjustment and improvement is going to be possible, but all in all, things are much better for me now.

THAT is really cool. I'm scheduled for next week to get mine replaced with the newest Oticon. Expecting great things.

[Mark Kelly]

All in all, it's ok enough now to play with them in while rehearsing, which is good, because I *really* can't hear the conductor at all otherwise.

Thanks for posting this.

I used to design audio equipment but gave it away around ten years ago. I now recognise that my hearing loss was a contributor to that decision.

I can only imagine what it's like for you as a musician.