Spectrum Cycles

[nahtnoj]

Is this what you were looking for?

Thanks, very helpful.

Are TT and Disturbed the tallest guys you have built frames for? Who was the shortest?

[Tom Kellogg]

thanks, Tom! So: other then a stereo & sharpies, what are the tools that have stood the test of time in your shop, the ones you reach for? the ones that *made* money? on the flipside, which ones were a total waste and got sent packing? - Garro.

Hey Steve: Good question. i-Pod, Coffee Roaster, Microwave ... Oh, wait, I don't think that is what you are looking for.

We've been pretty careful over the years and have made very few stupid purchases. A number of years ago we did purchase a very high end rotary compressor to replace our 60 year Quincy which is on its last legs. The new compressor works like the nuts, but it is way overkill and we should not have spent the extra money. A cheap 5 horse compressor would have cost much less. I don't recall ever tossing something we thought would be a great addition. A significant amount of our stuff we got from other builders and shops over the years. And of course, a lot of the things we use around here, we made ourselves ... little jigs and holders, fork raking mandrills, etc.

Tools and other things we use around here that we feel are worth their weight in gold. Keep in mind that we paint, build up bikes, build wheels, etc.:
Glass Bead Cabinet, 11.5" Southbend Tool Room lathe, Bench mill, Park Shop Stands, Var Wheel Truing Stand, Foredom flexible shaft grinder, Dyna-File, Bench Drill Press, Gas Fluxer, Two stage regulators, Propane fire ring. Nope, nothing is for sale.

Things we can't do without: Hack Saws, Vices, Files, Bench Disc Grinder, Oxy/Acetylene setup, Frame and Fork jigs, Paint booth ...

[Tom Kellogg]

Thanks, very helpful.

Are TT and Disturbed the tallest guys you have built frames for? Who was the shortest?

Are you kidding? Those guys are shrimps! Tallest guy was 7'1" but he is about 6'10" now. We've designed for a tad taller, but Merlin built that one. Shortest? Somewhere around 4'8". We built a few bikes years ago for some "midget" racers. For those of you are not old enough to remember, the Midget category was the youngest of the categories now called Juniors. Those bikes used 24" wheels. Small, but they looked "right." All in proportion. The really big and really small designs weren't the most difficult though. The tough ones were for riders with special needs, not just the "end of the bell curve" folks.

[Matthew J]

Tom:

Glad you started this thread. In the que for a 30th Anniversary. Very interesting to read about your and Jeff's background. Also nice to know what you are up to now.

I am also a great fan of Jeff's seat stays. Part of what convinced me to make the order.

[Tom Kellogg]

Tom:

Glad you started this thread. In the que for a 30th Anniversary. Very interesting to read about your and Jeff's background. Also nice to know what you are up to now.

I am also a great fan of Jeff's seat stays. Part of what convinced me to make the order.

Thanks for the note. I just finished the base coats for another 30th Anniversary frame for a client in Canada. He gave me some general ideas of what he was looking for, types of colors, pattern ideas, etc. Jeff and I batted things around a bit and came up with a fairly simple, classic paint job that just seems to work. Of course, the paint job isn't done, no decals yet, no clear, but you get the idea. Of course in these digital images, the colors aren't right either. What looks like silver in these photos, is actually a nice medium violet. Ah well. A photographer, I am not.

Smoked1.jpgSmoked4.jpgSmoked3.jpgSmoked2.jpg

[JohnHemlock]

What is the longest a tire-kicker has ever taken to actually order a bike? So, from the first call or letter to when they sent the deposit?

Signed,

A Tire-Kicker

[Matthew J]

Jeff and I batted things around a bit and came up with a fairly simple, classic paint job that just seems to work.

Very classic paint job. Love how it plays up the lines of the bike. With all the Mariposas that made their way to the States, it's nice to know a fine ride is making its way from here to Canada.

[Tom Kellogg]

What is the longest a tire-kicker has ever taken to actually order a bike? So, from the first call or letter to when they sent the deposit?

Signed,

A Tire-Kicker

Yo Tire:

I hope you aren't trying for a record. I think the record is around eighteen years. No kidding. A lot of folks were way over five years. In this sort of business, we are all bound to get not only tire kickers, but people who first need to figure out what they are looking for and what kind of a rider they are or want to be. That process can take a long time. At no time do I have any interest in "closing the deal." If a potential customer is not completely ready, I don't want them to tell me to go ahead. When they are fully ready, we will build it. That sounds like "No Wine Before its Time." But it is true.

[Tom Kellogg]

Very classic paint job. Love how it plays up the lines of the bike. With all the Mariposas that made their way to the States, it's nice to know a fine ride is making its way from here to Canada.

Thanks. This sort of paint job does take more time and a steadier hand than most of ours do, and honestly, we aren't known for the old British / French style of finishes, but the challenge is fun and of course I think they have "The Look." They are just somehow right. I think I feel that way simply because of what was going on in high end bicycles when I started in '76. We all look back to when we first got into bicycles as the "Classic Age," whenever that was. I'm just older than most.

[dcpdpayne]

Hey Tom,
Thanks for sharing your and Jeff’s story. A question that I’ve seen many of the other builders get asked is how you deal with customers who either don’t really understand the “made to measure” process. Do you have clients that come in dead set on what geometry they need, or insist on going with something strange because they read about one place or another? Are you able to steer them in a new direction and what do you do if they can’t be swayed? I wouldn’t think that you’re the type of man to suffer fools too lightly (which in this case it a very good thing.) After all the customer is paying as much for your knowledge (whether they know it at first or not) as they are your ability to build, paint etc etc.
Cheers,
Andy

[Matthew J]

Glad you asked that dcpd. In this age of the blog, seems everyone thinks they are experts. A few years back I came across a blog by some couple who had made a fortune in real estate (probably on skid row now) and decided to take a round the world bike tour.

In their equipment page, they mentioned they had originally thought to order Bruce Gordon tour bikes, but opted against because Bruce did not agree with their geometry and tubing specs. I stopped reading then and there. Here were a couple of finance wonks suggesting they knew more about bike design than one of the grand masters.

Custom builders really need a lot of patience.

[drbdr]

Attachment 22625Attachment 22627

Funny looking bike or not, you don't have to ride with TT to get an appreciation for Tom's bike design skills. Just look at the picture. Man and machine (together) just look right. In fact, that's how Tom does his fittings -- no tape to measure limb lengths, no protractor to measure flexibility -- just him, looking at you pedaling your bike. Wisdom >>> fancy fit system.

Tom, I know you pride yourself as an artisan (which you certainly are). We've all known you as a gentleman. And now we can also call you professor.

[Tom Kellogg]

Hey Tom,
Thanks for sharing your and Jeff’s story. A question that I’ve seen many of the other builders get asked is how you deal with customers who either don’t really understand the “made to measure” process. Do you have clients that come in dead set on what geometry they need, or insist on going with something strange because they read about one place or another? Are you able to steer them in a new direction and what do you do if they can’t be swayed? I wouldn’t think that you’re the type of man to suffer fools too lightly (which in this case it a very good thing.) After all the customer is paying as much for your knowledge (whether they know it at first or not) as they are your ability to build, paint etc etc.
Cheers,
Andy

Over the years, we have actually had very little of that sort of thing. There is only one that comes to mind that went way over the top with the customer wanting what she simply could not have. It is not that we didn't want to build what she wanted (well, that too) but that her demands added up to a physical impossibility and no matter how I tried to explain it to her, she just could not put it all together. Irony; she was an engineer. Folks have come to us with preconceived notions of what geometry they think they want, often appropriate, but sometimes I do need to do a bit of education and persuasion. For the most part, it has not been a problem. Lucky, I guess.

[Tom Kellogg]

Attachment 22625Attachment 22627 ... call you professor.

Not so sure about that. I have given some seminars and club talks, and I do teach Sunday School. Mostly, I want to make riders happier, more comfortable, more efficient, more effective, safer ... that's my job. Thanks for your compliments Ben.

[Too Tall]

Hey Tom! In a world where specialists seem to be a dying breed you have a unique niche and expertise in building enduring track tandems...among other things (road, cx, brevet, basicallyeverythingunderthesun). Building these crazy machines really does require special skills.

Was it three yrs. ago??? I was at Trexlertown to watch the Tandem Champs and there were at least 3 perhaps 4 of your tandem bikes racing. Their vintage spanned 30 yrs. right? The frames must take one heck of a pounding esp. given national caliber riders, banks and single sided drivetrains. Would you mind talking just a little about what makes a track tandem work well and why? Also, is there a good argument for using belt drive for the timing chain? Good stuff or not?

[VA_MEL]

Tom:

I'm sometimes a little off-put by how many classifications of bicycles are out there: race bike, training bike, tri bike, track bike, touring bike, cyclocross, rando, commuter, etc. Taking two that seem fairly similar in my mind, in terms of your design considerations, how generally does a road race bike (i.e. one that will actually be raced on the road) differ from one that won't be raced but will be ridden aggressive in groups or training?

Mike

[Tom Kellogg]

Hey Tom! In a world where specialists seem to be a dying breed you have a unique niche and expertise in building enduring track tandems...among other things (road, cx, brevet, basicallyeverythingunderthesun). Building these crazy machines really does require special skills.

Was it three yrs. ago??? I was at Trexlertown to watch the Tandem Champs and there were at least 3 perhaps 4 of your tandem bikes racing. Their vintage spanned 30 yrs. right? The frames must take one heck of a pounding esp. given national caliber riders, banks and single sided drivetrains. Would you mind talking just a little about what makes a track tandem work well and why? Also, is there a good argument for using belt drive for the timing chain? Good stuff or not?

Yo, Josh, The fifth frame I ever made was a track tandem, built in the early winter of ’76. At that point, I was just trying to build as many types of frames as I could in order to learn as much as I could as fast as possible. I had just begun to race and my younger brother Dave, was already quite good. I figured that a track tandem for the two of us would make a lot of sense. I can’t remember whether he and I actually rode that bike or not. It is still being ridden at raced at T-town, although no longer by me. I did race on it many times during the time that I was active on the track from ’76 to about ’95. I have no idea how many people have raced on that tandem. I gave it to the Velodrome many years ago so that they would have another bike for Nationals and the Tandemonium events that are held there.

TKtandem1.jpg
Ray Ignosh, Andy Kuklis, all photos courtesy of John Knauer

That frame is a double twin lateral design, popular in British and French tandems of the era. The design allows for a very comfortable ride, especially for the stoker. Vertically compliant and laterally rigid. Nice for casual country jaunts, but suck-ass for racing. When it comes to torsional rigidity, it is about as bad as it gets. The double laterals do almost nothing to counteract shear stresses.

Our second track tandem was built in ’78 for Jerry Ash and Leigh Barczewski. They got the silver medal in the worlds that year on the bike. The Czechs chopped them into turn three and Jerry broke his collar bone in the second ride of the finals. That frame’s design was quite similar, but I used much heavier tubing. Decent by the standards of the day, but not anywhere near where it should have been. I don’t know what ever happened to that bike.

Over the years, we built a number of road tandems, sometimes with couplers, sometimes not, but never with double twin laterals. Some used single marathon tubes, some used double marathons. It depended on the application and the customer’s needs. Eventually, the Velodrome commissioned a new tandem, donated by passing the hat around to the spectators. Red in its first paint job, it is now a Gios Blue. This was our first tandem that was properly designed for track racing. Double Marathon tubes, oversized everything else. Fully lugged, crossover drive and way stiff.

TKtandem2.jpg
In this image, the captain is Andy Lakatosh and the stoker is Ben Barczewski. Holders of T-town and National 333.3m and 200m records. photo John Knauer

Track tandems are not only put under huge stress, but some pretty unusual stresses that singles just don’t experience. A good tandem team will load a frame with around 350 pounds and well over two thousand watts. The torque being applied to the rear bottom bracket with a crossover drive is enormous and the shear stresses on the frame in an underbanked turn at over 40 mph are just crazy.

Trexlertown is a “underbanked” track in that the banking is not neutral at sprint speed. At higher speeds, a bike, and especially a tandem want to climb up the track. As the tandem enters a turn at speed it can be difficult to get the bike smoothly into the turn (force of momentum, mass, uncooperative stoker) and even more difficult keeping it on the line that the captain wants. Any of you who have watched serious tandem racing will remember seeing tandems drift up out of the pole lane, even above the stayers line during sprints. Believe me, it’s not intentional. Creating a frame that won’t twist is critical. Ensuring that the entire driveline remains true and consistent at all times must be done, but is very difficult to accomplish. Derailing, noisy and broken chains are one of the banes of tandem riders. A well designed frame eliminates those issues.

Building skills? Nothing special, really. Just patience since they take a huge amount of time to build. But unless you have actually raced a tandem on the track, you can’t fully understand what goes on out there and how to deal with it.

By the time we had built our fourth track tandem (originally built for Mike Beers and Mike Grabowski) we had pretty much gotten it all sorted out. That bike was ridden to at least three National Championships (maybe more, I can’t remember) and I really don’t think we could do better. It is pretty big, for two big guys. All three of the bikes discussed above are still raced and if you ever get the chance to watch Tandem Night at Trexlertown, it is a real treat, and pretty crazy. They don’t just run a sprint tournament, they have scratch races and others as well. I’m glad that I don’t race the track any more, but is sure was fun.

Team RiteAid.jpg Team RiteAid 2.jpg

Mike Beers Captain, Aussie sprinter stoker, photo John Knauer

Belt drive? Nope. Driveline quality is just too critical with a belt drive system. Even on a good tandem, a belt drive would have a lot of reliability issues. On most of the tandems out there, a final belt drive would be causing problems during warm-ups.

[Tom Kellogg]

Tom:

I'm sometimes a little off-put by how many classifications of bicycles are out there: race bike, training bike, tri bike, track bike, touring bike, cyclocross, rando, commuter, etc. Taking two that seem fairly similar in my mind, in terms of your design considerations, how generally does a road race bike (i.e. one that will actually be raced on the road) differ from one that won't be raced but will be ridden aggressive in groups or training?

Mike

Mike: Great question. I don't know if another builder would answer differently, but from our point of view, the two bikes you describe are essentially the same thing. Of course you asked about a road racing bike, not a crit specific bike which can be somewhat different. Depending on the physical attributes of the rider, I might make the non-racer's bike a bit more comfortable riding than the racer's, but even there, the differences would be subtle. Road racers may be more fit, talented or cooler looking than a good club rider out on the Sunday Derby, but their needs are really the same. Helps?

[WadePatton]

really glad to meet you at richmond tom.

the stay spoons: poetry in joinery.

i learn from you quite often, and haven't asked you a question yet. (howard hughes was no engineer either)

thanks for all so far.

and skip the donuts, keep toots off the back-unless he's cooking dinner.

[Too Tall]

T.K. you are a saint for the terrific explaination and pics. I really can't explain why I've got this obsession with racing track tandems. This is something I must do someday.