Automobiles

[darkmother]

Yup, only charges at 55 kW

55 kW is slow? I had no idea those chargers were capable of throwing that much power. There are going to be some fires/explosions.

[Saab2000]

55 kW is slow? I had no idea those chargers were capable of throwing that much power. There are going to be some fires/explosions.

Tesla’s Gen 3 chargers (Superchargers are all DC) can charge at up to 250 KW. The Gen 2 were limited to 150 KW. Some other brands of chargers output up to 350 KW. Both throttle quickly, based on the ability of the car to receive this level, but I’ve seen 250KW in my Model, though the charging curve flattens quickly and it’ll do 250 only for a minute or two.

But yeah, DC fast charging is very high wattage. The cables and chargers have serious thermal management, up to liquid cooled cables. Tesla’s Supercharger cables are about 3+ CM in diameter.

Thus far, fires are quite rare, despite media hype about the dangers. They’re not unknown, but generally rare.

[Scott G.]

You guys want to talk to my wife about this AWD stuff? Let the mansplaining begin.

The only time I really liked AWD in our old Impreza was getting in and out of parking spots.

I had a Subaru XT6 awd, it had a lockable center diff, good for driving on iced up overpasses.
Car had all manner of odd ball features, back when Subarus were still weird.

[72gmc]

Aside from AWD's impact on vehicle physics, its impact on the driver may be just as important. Some drivers are really thrown off their game by inclement weather, and their anxiety changes their driving in ways that introduce risk for themselves and others. If the knowledge of AWD helps the driver be more calm and confident (not dumb, but confident) it may also help them be a better driver.

Holy cow. I guess I mansplained (Dansplained) but for the record this applies to me too. My Quattros made me more calm in sketchy situations.

[echappist]

I've looked at the second hand market these days for hybrid cars (plugged EV are definitely a no here) and the toyota Auris Tourer seems to be the vehicule that tick the most boxes in term of budget/reliability/aesthetic/practicality.

The Auris is pretty decent. I think a few of the cabs we took in London and Taipei were Auises (Aures?). Quite spacious and practical.

[darkmother]

Tesla’s Gen 3 chargers (Superchargers are all DC) can charge at up to 250 KW. The Gen 2 were limited to 150 KW. Some other brands of chargers output up to 350 KW.

That is a metric S**T ton of power. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I suppose that is the only way you can charge a battery that size quickly.

The locomotive battery chargers at work put out around 11 KW peak. They will charge a completely flat battery in around an hour.

[Saab2000]

That is a metric S**T ton of power. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I suppose that is the only way you can charge a battery that size quickly.

The locomotive battery chargers at work put out around 11 KW peak. They will charge a completely flat battery in around an hour.

Tesla’s home charger, called their Wall Connector (because the charger is actually inside the car) provides up to 11.5 KW on 240 volts. Of course, that’s AC. The high speed chargers are all DC. That’s where my knowledge ends. This is obviously for professional students of electricity, which I am definitely not one.

[rec head]

The Tesla test ride went very well. My only complaint is that by going to the local test ride center we had to only do crappy city driving. Totally my own fault. We got there took pictures of our driver's license clicked accept on our phone and the car was ready. I thought it was funny that the test drive course he programmed into the nav for us was basically to the Lucid dealer.

The only bit of "upsell" we got was after the drive I told the Tesla guy that we were looking for a used one and he said he recommends 2021 and newer because they have heat pumps for the battery. That was it. Super fast appointment with super helpful staff.

[rec head]

Aside from AWD's impact on vehicle physics, its impact on the driver may be just as important. Some drivers are really thrown off their game by inclement weather, and their anxiety changes their driving in ways that introduce risk for themselves and others. If the knowledge of AWD helps the driver be more calm and confident (not dumb, but confident) it may also help them be a better driver.

I think the is a great summation of why AWD is so popular. I believe it is exactly what is going on in my house.

[clunk]

IMG_2491.jpg

[TonyP]

IMG_2491.jpg

I guess he couldn't afford that El Camino he always wanted.

[robin3mj]

Mount a couple bikes in the bed and it looks like something you’d find at a CX race in Portlandia.

[echappist]

IMG_2491.jpg

Perhaps in the middle of a retro-fit? As someone who like wagons (and presently drive a Volvo wagon), I think it looks really off...

[sk_tle]

It probably handles like a noodle in the current state.

[32x20]

Yup, only charges at 55 kW I believe to 80% SOC. We are aware.

Been away awhile, but thought I'd chime in on the Bolt discussion. We had an order on a Lightning, but between the higher prices at the time and the frustration with the Ford truck we already have, we canceled the order, fixed the gasser F150, and bought a Bolt EUV. I did some spreadsheet work and this solution put us ahead on cost (by far) and carbon emissions as well, making some assumptions on the amount we would drive the gas truck.

I LOVE the Bolt. My wife has a model 3 and while the EPA ranges are not close (325 vs 249) in real-world usage it's a lot closer than it ought to be. The Bolt seems to consistently exceed rated range, while the Tesla almost never makes rated. It does charge really slow, if you're used to Tesla speeds. I wouldn't go drive it across the country if I had a timeline.

It sounds like Chevy is now planning an updated Bolt with the Ultium platform, which would be a real gem if they pull charge speeds up and keep prices low.

[Saab2000]

Been away awhile, but thought I'd chime in on the Bolt discussion. We had an order on a Lightning, but between the higher prices at the time and the frustration with the Ford truck we already have, we canceled the order, fixed the gasser F150, and bought a Bolt EUV. I did some spreadsheet work and this solution put us ahead on cost (by far) and carbon emissions as well, making some assumptions on the amount we would drive the gas truck.

I LOVE the Bolt. My wife has a model 3 and while the EPA ranges are not close (325 vs 249) in real-world usage it's a lot closer than it ought to be. The Bolt seems to consistently exceed rated range, while the Tesla almost never makes rated. It does charge really slow, if you're used to Tesla speeds. I wouldn't go drive it across the country if I had a timeline.

It sounds like Chevy is now planning an updated Bolt with the Ultium platform, which would be a real gem if they pull charge speeds up and keep prices low.

Excellent report. I look forward to seeing the next generation Bolt and I hope they keep it affordable and don’t make it scarce. Almost all I’ve heard about this car has been positive with the exception of charging speed, which honestly really only matters if you’re road tripping. If it’s for day trips and commuting, etc., this is far less of an issue.

Re: range

I too am aware of the allegations against Tesla for inflating their range estimates. It doesn’t really apply to me because it has “enough” for my needs. But that’s a weak sauce justification and I get it. Additionally, I don’t drive it in the most efficient manner possible, which is surely how they tested it.

It appears most EV makers underpromise and over deliver WRT range and as a consumer that’s how I’d like it as well. I’ve seen range tests of GM, Porsche and Mercedes-Benz where they have exceeded published range estimates and often by non-trivial margins. That won’t likely happen in the Tesla. That said, it meets or exceeds my bladder range so I’m good. When I’ve had the bike rack on there’s a penalty and when it’s been cold there’s a penalty. Finally, I drive with traffic and if that’s going 80 MPH so am I even though that will mean a slight efficiency hit.

[echappist]

Excellent report. I look forward to seeing the next generation Bolt and I hope they keep it affordable and don’t make it scarce. Almost all I’ve heard about this car has been positive with the exception of charging speed, which honestly really only matters if you’re road tripping. If it’s for day trips and commuting, etc., this is far less of an issue.

Re: range

I too am aware of the allegations against Tesla for inflating their range estimates. It doesn’t really apply to me because it has “enough” for my needs. But that’s a weak sauce justification and I get it. Additionally, I don’t drive it in the most efficient manner possible, which is surely how they tested it.

It appears most EV makers underpromise and over deliver WRT range and as a consumer that’s how I’d like it as well. I’ve seen range tests of GM, Porsche and Mercedes-Benz where they have exceeded published range estimates and often by non-trivial margins. That won’t likely happen in the Tesla. That said, it meets or exceeds my bladder range so I’m good. When I’ve had the bike rack on there’s a penalty and when it’s been cold there’s a penalty. Finally, I drive with traffic and if that’s going 80 MPH so am I even though that will mean a slight efficiency hit.

That word "slight" is doing quite the heavy lifting, and the entire sentiment expressed in your last sentence is glaringly unfathomable given you, unlike most, really do know better when it comes to aerodynamics, because aerodynamic drag force is the one phenomenon that has an outsize effect on not only your hobby but also your professional endeavors.

I'm sure that you understand that power to overcome drag varies with the cube of speed, but just to illustrate the point, driving at 80 MPH takes 20% more power as compared to driving at 75 MPH ((80/75)^3). Driving at 80 MPH takes 50% more power as compared to driving at 70 MPH. 20% (never mind 50%) is neither a marginal difference nor a "slight efficiency hit", and all that to go 6.7% faster (or 14.2% in the case of 80 MPH vs 70 MPH).

I wonder what an instructor pilot would tell a trainee pilot, when the latter asks in class, why can't we just fly 5% faster to make up for the lost time.

[Saab2000]

That word "slight" is doing quite the heavy lifting, and the entire sentiment expressed in your last sentence is glaringly unfathomable given you, unlike most, really do know better because aerodynamic drag force is the one phenomenon that has an outsize effect on not only your hobby but also your professional endeavors.

I'm sure that you understand that power to overcome drag varies with the cube of speed, but just to illustrate the point, driving at 80 MPH takes 20% more power as compared to driving at 75 MPH ((80/75)^3). Driving at 80 MPH takes 50% more power as compared to driving at 70 MPH. 20% (never mind 50%) is neither a marginal difference nor a "slight efficiency hit", and all that to go 6.7% faster (or 14.2% in the case of 80 MPH vs 70 MPH).

You are correct about this. Parasitic drag increases exponentially. That said, I don’t know what the most efficient speed would be in my car. I’m guessing like 50-55 MPH. Given that Chicago traffic speed laws are essentially unenforced I go as fast as I want, or better said, I go with the traffic flow. I’m not trying to hypermile the vehicle. People who do that are hyper annoying and a borderline road hazard. When I cruise on a road trip I’ll usually do the speed limit up to speed limit + 5-8 MPH, depending on conditions.

EV owners are very much in tune with what they will arrive at their next charge with in terms of state of charge. That number goes up with slower speeds and down with higher.

Lately I’ve been using 8-9% of my battery capacity on my commute and sometimes I’m going 45 MPH and other times 85 - It depends on what traffic around me is doing. Anecdotally, outside air temperatures have a higher impact on what I use going to work than my speed.

I haven’t done enough road tripping to really pay too much attention. Clearly going 90 MPH would have a massive negative impact over a long segment vs going 65 MPH. It’s so easy to go extremely fast in an EV. There’s little sensation other than wind noise because the drivetrain, unlike a gas car, does not really sound frantic at higher speeds. I’ve never seen 100 MPH in my current car but it would be stupid easy to get there quickly. Acceleration is the primary party trick in a Tesla. But when driven normally (and this is easy too because throttle modulation is actually quite good) the other one is very low electric bills and no gas station visits. That’s a pretty cool party trick too.

[rmplum]

That is a metric S**T ton of power. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I suppose that is the only way you can charge a battery that size quickly.

The locomotive battery chargers at work put out around 11 KW peak. They will charge a completely flat battery in around an hour.

I just wrapped up the commissioning of a 350kW charger at our office. Them cables are bigguns. The electricians earned their bucks wrestling those things through the tight spaces in the base of the power cabinets (the 350kW dispenser is fed by two very large cabinets adjacent to our pad). There's not much out there right now that charges at 350kW right now, so we are future-proofed a little. It took 6+ months to get this ABB unit delivered from order. Maybe it was 8 months?

Anyway, wife is picking up her Bolt (a 2020 model with DC Fast charging) later this week. It's hard to beat for driving distance/dollar. Not great for road trips, but she can always swap cars with my daughter and take the Mazda3 for a week if needed.

RP

[sk_tle]

When the tesla model S came out I saw all those videos about people drag racing them and using that ludicrous mode button and I was kind of afraid we would see idiots driving them stupidly everywhere. Power only increased over the generations, I think the latest Model Y can deliver 1000HP or something in the right conditions.

It turns out that nearly all Tesla I see are driven 10kph below the speed limit while the idiots are usually the turbo diesel cars drivers. I guess that EV range anxiety quickly take over and it gets old quit quickly to hammer and launch yourself into space at every traffic light + complaints from your passengers.