The message here speaks volumes to me -

[zachateseverything]

My first sentence was, "This is dependent on the product category." I've expanded on that. I would paraphrase the opening sentence if I can but am struggling this morning.

I don't think you understood my point. Yes, there are some materials that have degraded due to capitalism. In your example of cashmere, the goats aren't allowed to grow as much before and between shearings. You get worse fibers so overall yarn quality suffers, but the farmers produce more of them so they still make more money. Other raw materials are similarly impacted by high global demand. Lumber quality is lower now that we've chopped down all the old growth. it happens.

but in general, and despite some changes to raw materials, we have way more access to good quality stuff now than we did 50 years ago. We aren't limited to what our local stores or the sears catalog have. and thru the magic of automation and industrialization, quality has gotten significantly more consistent.

[bigbill]

I spent my last four full-time working years as the senior engineer for a cabinet manufacturing corporation. We made 4500-5000 cabinets a day. In my four years, I saw many material changes, some of which were driven by external forces. The focus is on what the consumer sees and feels, so the doors, frames, and hardware gets the attention. The sides, backs, and drawers can be built from cheaper materials. About four years ago, a significant player in the particle board world saw its largest plant burn down. The company decided to leave the business instead of rebuilding. This meant particle board came from Mexico and was less dense, requiring more fasteners and glue. We adapted and moved on. Storms hit coastal Texas, shutting down refineries and chemical plants that make the adhesives that are used to make particle board and plywood. This drove another shortage and increased prices. Covid threw wrenches every week, not least of which was finding employees.

For the future, when I left, painted cabinets were shifting to MDF (medium-density fiberboard) which has no grain but looks good with a glossy finish. One of the last projects was to simplify processes such as only stocking four kinds of hinges instead of 7. What amazed me is that people still ordered cabinets with doors and drawers without soft-close features. I guess some people like to slam shut drawers and doors because there is no price difference. Cabinets are expensive because of all the logistics and labor required to manufacture them. The profit margins are small; companies rely on volume.

[Bob Ross]

The stuff that actually matters are pickups, effects, amps, and speakers. Basically, the things that apply a filter to the signal. The guys that fuss about tonewoods and finish types are the equivalent of the audiophile guys that stress over things like speak wires made from precious metals.

I took a class with luthier/guitarist John Amaral 43 or 44 years ago, and on the topic of Does [Insert Variable] Make A Difference In An Electric Guitar's Sound? he said something that I found wonderfully astute and profound:

"Everything makes a difference in the sound. The question is, can you hear the difference?"

(And by "you" he meant each of us individually. There are ways to test/prove the answer...though admittedly some are impractical.)

[TonyP]

Well, the universe is everything, and if it's expanding, someday it will break apart and that would be the end of everything!

There are times that make me think that this would be an improvement.

[defspace]

I think it's worth asking "who can afford (or is allowed) to own or experience these things?"

If you're comparing something from the mid 20th century that only well to do white men could own/experience vs something we all can own/experience, that's not really a fair comparison. I'm sure today's yachts are very well made.

[e-RICHIE]

Documentary Now is funnier than siht.
TLD and I are later than latecomers to this but alas we’re completely engrossed.
Next stop, UCONN Women’s basketball.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Sorry about going further off topic, but here’s some of the context for my prior comment.

After I recognized I had unilateral hearing loss in my right ear a few years ago, I became more aware that what we hear (or think we hear), is not really objective, and heavily influence by our psychology. Believe it or not, I can still hear in (apparent) stereo, especially if I’m listening to something familiar, because I know what it should sound like, and what I want it to sound like, and my brain subconsciously does the rest. (Left ear is okay, and I’m still better than average at diagnosing heart murmurs by exam. But admittedly not as good as I once was, and I’m comparing myself to more and more people who never developed the skill of auscultation very well).

Back in the day, I had arguments with a number of people about what guitar EJ played in C of D. As it ends up, I was correct. But since he was a strat guy for the most part, that’s what people expected and wanted to hear. I think I can still hear differences in instruments, but I’m much more open to the idea it’s because I like to think I hear the difference.

But I’ll never sell my Kevin Ryan.

[zachateseverything]

Sorry about going further off topic, but here’s some of the context for my prior comment.

After I recognized I had unilateral hearing loss in my right ear a few years ago, I became more aware that what we hear (or think we hear), is not really objective, and heavily influence by our psychology. Believe it or not, I can still hear in (apparent) stereo, especially if I’m listening to something familiar, because I know what it should sound like, and what I want it to sound like, and my brain subconsciously does the rest. (Left ear is okay, and I’m still better than average at diagnosing heart murmurs by exam. But admittedly not as good as I once was, and I’m comparing myself to more and more people who never developed the skill of auscultation very well).

Back in the day, I had arguments with a number of people about what guitar EJ played in C of D. As it ends up, I was correct. But since he was a strat guy for the most part, that’s what people expected and wanted to hear. I think I can still hear differences in instruments, but I’m much more open to the idea it’s because I like to think I hear the difference.

But I’ll never sell my Kevin Ryan.

This is an interesting comment. I don't think there's a real concern about going off topic in this thread either.

So for work, I do engineering analysis related to the handling performance of tires at one of the major US tire manufacturers. Final sign off with our OE customers for handling performance is generally a subjective evaluation. You mount up a set of tires, take it out onto the test course, and a trained driver evaluates things like how the steering torque builds as you enter a turn, or how much on-center freeplay exists before the car starts to react, etc. In general the evaluators have a difficult job but are very precise in their inputs and are about as consistent in their feedback as you could hope. but one thing that we've found is that if you tell the test drivers that there's a difference between two sets of tires they're going to find some reason to rate them differently, even if you just made some impact gun sounds while they sat in the car and filled out their paperwork before being sent out on the same physical set of tires they drove before.

Circling back to guitars, if a particular guitar just does it for you, then awesome.

[vertical_doug]

I think it's worth asking "who can afford (or is allowed) to own or experience these things?"

If you're comparing something from the mid 20th century that only well to do white men could own/experience vs something we all can own/experience, that's not really a fair comparison. I'm sure today's yachts are very well made.

On a side note, the good old days so many republican voter are yearning for in the 1950's, we had a top tax bracket of 91% and 1/3 the private workforce (non-farm) was unionized.

[gregl]

On a side note, the good old days so many republican voter are yearning for in the 1950's, we had a top tax bracket of 91% and 1/3 the private workforce (non-farm) was unionized.

"Turn back the calendar a few decades, but only for the things that don't hurt me"

Greg

[mg2ride]

Thanks to the OP for encouraging me to waste 5 minutes of my life. I tend to think this is some kind of prank. The 2 shots from the youtube promo have so much in common. 2 overweight, poorly dressed slouchers. I can call them that because I can completely relate. I'm one as well I just don't try and pretend I'm better. I think some people can relate to Joey because like him, they like to believe they are better. Swoop would love this guy.

[e-RICHIE]

Thanks to the OP for encouraging me to waste 5 minutes of my life. I tend to think this is some kind of prank. The 2 shots from the youtube promo have so much in common. 2 overweight, poorly dressed slouchers. I can call them that because I can completely relate. I'm one as well I just don't try and pretend I'm better. I think some people can relate to Joey because like him, they like to believe they are better. Swoop would love this guy.

I’m the original poster, and haven’t encouraged you to do anything.

[mg2ride]

I guess I took your offer to "share it with the world" literally. Besides that, I get to chose if you encouraged me. As much as you want to be, it's not up to you,

[Corso]

Reading 4 pages of opinions - that's what makes the world go 'round- everyone see's something different.

I agree- I would rather see people dressed nicely in an airport, vs looking like a comfortable bag of milk.

My wife and I raised 3 kids, now young adults, who would never look like it was time for bed when going out in public.

I was hiking in the White Mountains of NH this weekend. Older folks had nothing in hand except maybe a pole.
Younger folks? Phones. Yapping away, taking selfies, making face and fake gang signs in said selfies, yapping away as in "I'm walking up this fn mountain, I'm coming down this f'n mountain, etc etc.

Kudos for hiking, but man, I don't think they saw anything in NATURE---except to say "I was here...and everyone look at me being here"...

Cars: I have a 1969 SS Camaro convertible, my daily driver is a 2012 Ford Taurus SHO. The SHO beats it in every category, except the attention it draws. But the SS is something special to me.
I can fix anything that goes wrong with the SS. The SHO? Nope, must have the right computers to fix the cars computers.

Interviews: I'd be happy if the applicant just showed up!!!! Now, they blow it off without even a call (or text).

Just my 2 cents.

[thollandpe]

Cars: I have a 1969 SS Camaro convertible, my daily driver is a 2012 Ford Taurus SHO.

Dayum. Them are two fine rides, hoss.

What color is the ragtop? Is the Taurus a wagon?

We had a Taurus wagon for a while, one of the lesser models, and it was a fine family truckster. My daughter told me at the time it was the least-stolen car in the US. That’s a feature, not a bug! While I’m partial to the 90’s jellybeans, I hope yours has that beautiful interlaced fingers manifold atop that kick-ass V6.

[Corso]

The SHO is a sedan- black. twin turbo, awd.
SS- pictured.69-SS-rear .jpg

[thollandpe]

69-SS-rear .jpg

I’ll be in my bunk.

[pdxharth]

I’ve come back to read this thread a couple times because the topic is fascinating to me, too, as I often lament the lack of nice clothes or quality, well-designed and made things in our world. These two quotes touch on my thoughts, which is that it all goes back to capitalism. Average workers cannot afford well-designed and made things. It’s more about volume than quantity in regards to our stuff these days. Sure, that may not be the case for those on this forum, but my hunch it is a driving factor in the decades-long shift discussed in the video. From Forbes: In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO’s Executive Paywatch news release today” (5/22/18). So people have moved on to cheap appliances (my old range was a 1957 Gibson, made in Michigan, that was stylish and awesome. Finally died. Parts not available. My new one is a Kitchenaid. It has a tiny bit of style, but it’s crap overall, relatively speaking) and lots of plastic, disposable junk. Why? Not because people don’t like quality stuff, but because that is what they can afford.

Henry Ford was a racist, anti-Semitic jerk, but he understood enough about the world to pay his workers well so they could afford to buy the cars they made.

On a side note, the good old days so many republican voter are yearning for in the 1950's, we had a top tax bracket of 91% and 1/3 the private workforce (non-farm) was unionized.

Quote Originally Posted by defspace
I think it's worth asking "who can afford (or is allowed) to own or experience these things?"

If you're comparing something from the mid 20th century that only well to do white men could own/experience vs something we all can own/experience, that's not really a fair comparison. I'm sure today's yachts are very well made.