And now for something new...did the Pandemic change your political ideology?

[davids]

"I will not take his word for it."

I have no problem with this response

That was my reaction, too. It's a shame this got spun to discredit (1) the vaccines and (2) the Democrats' attitude towards them.

VP Harris certainly never said "Trump's vaccine"...

[bigbill]

A note to @bigbill, lexan and plexiglass shields are designed to combat droplet transmission, and can actually exacerbate aerosol transmission where they inhibit airflow.

Part of the increased airflow was the addition of Patterson fans in the assembly area. The shields were placed perpendicular to the airflow.

[bigbill]

That was my reaction, too. It's a shame this got spun to discredit (1) the vaccines and (2) the Democrats' attitude towards them.

VP Harris certainly never said "Trump's vaccine"...

Except it wasn't just his word, there were plenty of scientists and CDC folks supporting the vaccine. For a politician to cast doubt on a vaccine during the time of an epidemic is irresponsible, regardless of party.

[beeatnik]

This will bake your noodle, Orange Man should have “muzzled and suppressed” officials to get the vaccine out in October. Had he possessed that Machiavellian deviance, 200,000 old, poor and brown American lives would have been saved. Ah but his dismantling of the regulatory state would have resulted in millions of lives lost from the effects of, um, pollution.

[takashi]

Except it wasn't just his word, there were plenty of scientists and CDC folks supporting the vaccine. For a politician to cast doubt on a vaccine during the time of an epidemic is irresponsible, regardless of party.

This may be an example of the spinning that davids is referring to

[takashi]

This will bake your noodle, Orange Man should have “muzzled and suppressed” officials to get the vaccine out in October. Had he possessed that Machiavellian deviance, 200,000 old, poor and brown American lives would have been saved. Ah but his dismantling of the regulatory state would have resulted in millions of lives lost from the effects of, um, pollution.

My guess is Orange Man has never done anything to benefit the lives of old brown American people and certainly not poor old brown American people.

[beeatnik]

You don’t know many males in the African American community, correct?

[beeatnik]

Respectfully disagree on that last point. I own a home in the inner city and I knew last Feb that my tenant’s experience of the pandemic would be more horrific than mine. I also knew that her actions would impact community spread more than mine. At the moment, that community has the highest case rate in the City of Los Angeles which is to say one of the highest in the entire world.

My guess is Orange Man has never done anything to benefit the lives of old brown American people and certainly not poor old brown American people.

The saved lives would have been collateral damage. The election was the prize (if you follow Harris’s reasoning).

Also, it’s old (mostly white), poor (white, black and brown) and Brown ( disproportionately Latino under 65) not old poor Brown.

[takashi]

The saved lives would have been collateral damage. The election was the prize (if you follow Harris’s reasoning).

Also, it’s old (mostly white), poor (white, black and brown) and Brown ( disproportionately Latino under 65) not old poor Brown.

Ah, got it. My statement is still true.

[theflashunc]

Except it wasn't just his word, there were plenty of scientists and CDC folks supporting the vaccine. For a politician to cast doubt on a vaccine during the time of an epidemic is irresponsible, regardless of party.

Except the additional context matters. The Trump administration, and Trump himself, were touting for months that a vaccine was "just around the corner" and were both behind-the-scenes and openly pressuring the FDA to approve shots before the election. This culminated in the December open threat by Trump via then Chief of Staff Mark Meadows to fire Hahn, the FDA chief, if the vaccine wasn't approved.

Given that all this pressure was coming from the guy who told us all to inject bleach or shoot UV light into our bodies, yeah, some skepticism that the scientists were being allowed to do the work to review a vaccine that hundreds of millions of us were going to get seems rather healthy from the then VP candidate. I think we can all agree the vast bulk of the populace didn't want corners cut on a shot we were all going to get.

It also underscores the point Trump has done an abominable job taking credit for the one thing he did get right. The vaccine development happened at record pace. The US has led the world essentially in vaccination effort in no small part because of the supply we had available. Instead he's too busy spreading the Big Lie to do some good and encourage people to take the vaccine his administration spearheaded.

[davids]

This will bake your noodle, Orange Man should have “muzzled and suppressed” officials to get the vaccine out in October. Had he possessed that Machiavellian deviance, 200,000 old, poor and brown American lives would have been saved. Ah but his dismantling of the regulatory state would have resulted in millions of lives lost from the effects of, um, pollution.

What would have happened it the vaccines hadn't been effective?
If there had been massive debilitating or fatal side effects?

Also, I don't understand the numbers you cite - 200,000 lives saved by beginning vaccinations in October instead of the end of December? Millions of lives lost to what exactly?

[beeatnik]

What would have happened it the vaccines hadn't been effective?
If there had been massive debilitating or fatal side effects?

Also, I don't understand the numbers you cite - 200,000 lives saved by beginning vaccinations in October instead of the end of December? Millions of lives lost to what exactly?

When did Pfizer complete their clinical trial? Moderna?

[beeatnik]

Given that all this pressure was coming from the guy who told us all to inject bleach or shoot UV light into our bodies, yeah, some skepticism that the scientists were being allowed to do the work to review a vaccine that hundreds of millions of us were going to get seems rather healthy from the then VP candidate. I think we can all agree the vast bulk of the populace didn't want corners cut on a shot we were all going to get.

The bleach and UV comments were malapropisms by a "very stable genius." Ask TH about the history of airborne transmission and ultraviolet air disinfection in measles. Or rather read the abstract here:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...889-6/fulltext

Responsible politicians, journalists or policy makers would have set the record straight immediately after those comments were uttered. I mean we were in a public health emergency.

Also, help me with the timeline, who was President when the Pfizer and Moderna received EUA? You honestly believe Harris as a US Senator and VP candidate had not been briefed on the safety profiles of the vaccines?

[davids]

When did Pfizer complete their clinical trial? Moderna?

November 9 and November 14.

Are you going to answer my questions?

[beeatnik]

November 9 and November 14.

Are you going to answer my questions?

I don't know in a parallel universe the vaccine is out in Sep, Trump wins the election and Trump continues to install cronies as heads of the EPA and other regulatory agencies. US extends the withdrawal from the Paris Agreement.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/ai...tion#tab=tab_1
Air pollution kills an estimated seven million people worldwide every year. WHO data shows that 9 out of 10 people breathe air that exceeds WHO guideline limits containing high levels of pollutants, with low- and middle-income countries suffering from the highest exposures. WHO is supporting countries to address air pollution.

And this doesn't even take into account climate change.

[GrantM]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-va...dd966d5ef.html

[thollandpe]

The bleach and UV comments were malapropisms by a "very stable genius." Ask TH about the history of airborne transmission and ultraviolet air disinfection in measles.

He was not talking about using UV for air purification or disinfection, not even close.

"Suppose that we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light... Supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way."

That's not using UV-C light for disinfection, which is proven and recommended by ASHRAE, CDC, and others. In fact if you use UV-C you have to take precautions to keep it away from the skin and eyes.

It's the quackery of light therapy, which (don your tinfoil hats now) has been hawked by Mr. Russell Ramsland, who has also pushed the big lie about the election being stolen. COINCIDENCE?

The making of a myth
Russell J. Ramsland Jr. sold everything from Tex-Mex food to light-therapy technology. Then he sold the story that the 2020 election was stolen.

Only the best people.

[beeatnik]

He was not talking about using UV for air purification or disinfection, not even close.

"Suppose that we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light... Supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way."

That's not using UV-C light for disinfection, which is proven and recommended by ASHRAE, CDC, and others. In fact if you use UV-C you have to take precautions to keep it away from the skin and eyes.

I think you're giving Orange Man too much credit. He was notorious for his lack of, um, intellectual curiosity and it was widely reported that he would hardly skim through briefings/intelligence reports. I, however, do believe he was dumb enough or inarticulate enough to confuse or not understand GUV air disinfection or believe it was a prophylaxis.

Either way, why not clearly and loudly set the record straight after the press conference. "Hey, America, this the way this UV stuff actually works for measles which (shhhh) are airborne like Covid." That kind of thing.

[beeatnik]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-va...dd966d5ef.html

And the irony is that all the right wing commentators (Shapiro, et al) are pro vaccine. Why? Because they want lockdowns and masking to end. Full stop.

[zetroc]

This thread sucks. Everyone go outside.