Throw Away Culture

[bigbill]

My apartment is super efficient, I don't drive, take public transport but because I fly a lot, my carbon footprint from flying is probably equivalent to driving a car averaging 25 mpg, 35,000 miles a year. And that is after making the choice to fly economy. If I flew business, it'd be closer to 100,000/ I have friends who even if they speak about climate change, will not fly economy because of status. Which is why the private jet-setter preaching climate change is such a oxymoron. My at status before the planet. (We're doomed)
Basically we have a society built on carbon intensive energy over 200 years. How and how quickly we can transition away from this, is the elephant in the room. Everything must change.

Economy versus Business class, back of the plane, front of the plane, same plane, what difference does it make? The economics of an airplane are largely up to the manufacturer and there's been a constant push from Boeing and Airbus to increase efficiency while squeezing more passengers on each aircraft.

[KonaSS]

Since Patagonia was mentioned and there seem to be many Patagonia fans on this forum, I have a question about Patagonia. What is their environmental cred based on? Isn't the bulk of their assortment apparel made of plastic fabrics, some of which are DWR-treated with forever chemicals, that shed micro-plastic and forever chemical bits all over the place, particularly when they are laundered and polluting the water system?

To answer your question directly - I think their cred is based on statements like this https://www.patagonia.com/our-respon...-programs.html

[jimcav]

it would be nearly impossible to get people to sort their trash into the correct receptacle upon leaving, assuming the receptacles were available. It's a people problem and the people don't care. I may have to start taking the items home with me for proper disposal as that seems to be the only solution.

agree on this observation. I used to stop after mtb'ing at a cluster of 8-10 restaurants around a nice central fountain with abundant outdoor seating (feeds the workers in a large business park area), and all over the place, outside each restaurant and in multiple areas near seating, there were pairs of regular and recycle trash bins.

I'd go up and plan to recycle my glass hecho en mexico coca cola bottle, plastic food container, etc., and people had just dumped trash into both with no regard. and these are the likely well-educated types at many biotech/tech places

[Chik]

To answer your question directly - I think their cred is based on statements like this https://www.patagonia.com/our-respon...-programs.html

Thanks for this. It sounds like carbon footprint is their primary focus.

[TonyP]

agree on this observation. I used to stop after mtb'ing at a cluster of 8-10 restaurants around a nice central fountain with abundant outdoor seating (feeds the workers in a large business park area), and all over the place, outside each restaurant and in multiple areas near seating, there were pairs of regular and recycle trash bins.

I'd go up and plan to recycle my glass hecho en mexico coca cola bottle, plastic food container, etc., and people had just dumped trash into both with no regard. and these are the likely well-educated types at many biotech/tech places

Having an education doesn't necessarily mean that a person gives a fuck, or that something is worth their consideration.

[bigbill]

I lived in the city of Kingman, AZ for two years before moving 20 miles north of town in 2020. When I first arrived in 2018, the town had several recycle areas with multiple dumpsters marked for various materials (glass, plastic, cardboard, paper, plastic grocery bags). Once a week, I load up my car with recyclables and drop them off on the way to work. I frequently saw bags of trash thrown in the recycle bins and it reached the point where the city disestablished all the recycle areas. No curbside recycle pickup, just a single rolling trashcan.

I retired from my engineering manager job last year. We received many materials in cardboard boxes and shipped products in cardboard boxes. We had a dumpster for cardboard and the local waste guys paid us for the cardboard which was recycled. Cardboard was largely going to China for recycling, but when China stopped accepting it, cardboard went in the trash.

[vertical_doug]

When you burn cardboard you release dioxins.

Recycling into other wood pulp products should be relatively easy except for all the other non-cardboard mixed in.

[jimcav]

Having an education doesn't necessarily mean that a person gives a fuck, or that something is worth their consideration.

I see how that reads, but I meant being educated on issues of the environment and recycling--most of the companies near there at least claim to care, a big one across the street says this "To enable our customers to make the world healthier, cleaner and safer". So they give a shit and it should be part of the culture for everyone working there. ViaSat isn't far and they provide bikes for workers to go between building on their campus, they also host the Science Olympiad for local students. I bet even Calloway Golf, which is also near, has some sort of responsible position.
My point was that if workers in places like this don't even bother, it is hard to have hope.

Maybe it gets sorted at the facility wherever the bins contents end up. I know from personal visit to the USMC recycling center at camp pendleton, they definitely had people employed (not marines) sorting all the crap.

[TonyP]

I see how that reads, but I meant being educated on issues of the environment and recycling--most of the companies near there at least claim to care, a big one across the street says this "To enable our customers to make the world healthier, cleaner and safer". So they give a shit and it should be part of the culture for everyone working there. ViaSat isn't far and they provide bikes for workers to go between building on their campus, they also host the Science Olympiad for local students. I bet even Calloway Golf, which is also near, has some sort of responsible position.
My point was that if workers in places like this don't even bother, it is hard to have hope.

Maybe it gets sorted at the facility wherever the bins contents end up. I know from personal visit to the USMC recycling center at camp pendleton, they definitely had people employed (not marines) sorting all the crap.

Call me a cynic but "most of the companies near there at least claim to care" is what stands out to me out of every thing you wrote, and I agree, they claim to care.

Corporate America, shux, Corporate Anywhere is going to get on whatever bandwagon sells the most product. Are there "Green" businesses? Sure, but I don't believe that the Truely Green buisinessess are many compared to the numbers which claim to be.

Marketing via virtue signaling, probably works real well.

[Too Tall]

Tony to Jim's point...it's not nothing these corps. do. The obvious move for a socially conscious person might be to leverage that into something that is meaningful to yourself?

[jimcav]

Call me a cynic but "most of the companies near there at least claim to care" is what stands out to me out of every thing you wrote, and I agree, they claim to care.

Corporate America, shux, Corporate Anywhere is going to get on whatever bandwagon sells the most product. Are there "Green" businesses? Sure, but I don't believe that the Truely Green buisinessess are many compared to the numbers which claim to be.

Marketing via virtue signaling, probably works real well.

Sure I can call you a cynic! I think many who know me would say the same, especially regards the military and government, but it is all relative. I can readily criticize the gov't and military for inefficiency and some truly ridiculous things, but still was proud to Wear the flag for 28-years, and I wouldn't trade our gov't for any other--just wish there were more informed voters with longer term vision, better candidates, and less big money influencing it all. Being a cynic to me, if not extreme, is one way of being questioning and thoughtful, isn't necessarily bad if it doesn't make you too jaded to care and try within you sphere.

You could be right on the corporate hollowness, but I also have personally used the "fake it until you make it" approach to some challenging work situations (mostly dealing with coworkers I'd rather avoid), and it actually worked over time--I stopped 100% wanting to avoid the situations, even came to enjoy some of those awful people:).

I hope even if a company starts with fake intentions, that they become real to some degree over time. Certainly, if they don't even start in any way, they will never have/do anything real.

Individual actions maybe aren't much, but it is something. I'm sure lots of the workers at the eatery place are in a rush with limited lunch break time, but I always hope a few of them see me go to the trouble of taking stuff off my tray and putting some things into the blue bin and the true trash/food waste into the black, and do the same.

[TonyP]

Sure I can call you a cynic! I think many who know me would say the same, especially regards the military and government, but it is all relative. I can readily criticize the gov't and military for inefficiency and some truly ridiculous things, but still was proud to Wear the flag for 28-years, and I wouldn't trade our gov't for any other--just wish there were more informed voters with longer term vision, better candidates, and less big money influencing it all. Being a cynic to me, if not extreme, is one way of being questioning and thoughtful, isn't necessarily bad if it doesn't make you too jaded to care and try within you sphere.

You could be right on the corporate hollowness, but I also have personally used the "fake it until you make it" approach to some challenging work situations (mostly dealing with coworkers I'd rather avoid), and it actually worked over time--I stopped 100% wanting to avoid the situations, even came to enjoy some of those awful people:).

I hope even if a company starts with fake intentions, that they become real to some degree over time. Certainly, if they don't even start in any way, they will never have/do anything real.

Individual actions maybe aren't much, but it is something. I'm sure lots of the workers at the eatery place are in a rush with limited lunch break time, but I always hope a few of them see me go to the trouble of taking stuff off my tray and putting some things into the blue bin and the true trash/food waste into the black, and do the same.

I agree with this and I act as I would like to see others act, and while I don't expect it to, I would like for the good acts to snowball. What I don't agree with is "Individual actions maybe aren't much", I think that they're all important.

My outlook follows a line that I think is credited to Tom Waits, "There is no Devil, it's only God when he's drunk". Heaven, or Hell, God, or the Devil, is on Earth, and depending how we act, as a people, is which it is.

[jimcav]

I truly agree it is really important to me what I do, and glad it is to many others, I just wish it was important to everyone.

[BBB]

Too Tall may have a red headed kindred spirit in Oz.

See

Beau likes to repair stuff. Amongst other things.

[Too Tall]

Too Tall may have a red headed kindred spirit in Oz.

See

Beau likes to repair stuff. Amongst other things.

We like him.

[Peter Polack]

On the plus side of the discussion, I'm in the process of remodeling my 1/2 bath.

I removed the toilet and cleaned it to like-new condition. I took photos of it to post on craigslist for free. I'm sure there is someone out there who would take advantage of a very clean, new looking, used toilet.
While arranging the parts for the photos, I tapped the tank with the tank lid and put a big ol' crack in the tank! Well, there went that attempt at generosity...

This weekend, I finally got around to doing the same with the vitreous bathroom sink, except for the cracks!. The sink and the single lever Pfister faucet were only five years old and I cleaned them thoroughly, removing all the caulk and plumber's putty as well.

I posted it on craigslist for free yesterday and someone picked it up this morning. Guy said the pink sink in his 60's era house had rust and was starting to leak. Both of us ended up happy and nothing was thrown away.

[TMB]

Still have a corded drill, 'cause there are no batteries to wear out
and throw away.

Old engineer's maxim "If it's not there, it can't break."

I just bought a complete set of bits in good shape for my Bit Brace.

[TMB]

When I take Metra Rail (not the same thing as the L - Metra is fine, though seemingly pulled straight out of 1968) into Chicago it is pulled by a BNSF locomotive on the line I live on. Interestingly, my town is the first stop on the westbound routes from Chicago’s Union Station, so were I to take Amtrak westward, I could hop on about two to three miles from my house and get to the west coast a couple days later. I actually want to do this. But then I look at the price (not inexpensive at all) and remind myself that I work for an airline that can get me there for free in 3-4 hours.

But I do want to take a train journey across the States one day.

Sorry for the drift.

My wife and I were stuck in traffic outside beautiful downtown Wikieup, Arizona about a week ago and got talking with the other people who were stuck in traffic and also walking their dogs ….

Lady behind us in line lives in Seattle and travels regularly to NYC for work and she travels by train. Long discussion ensued and when the traffic eventually started rolling again (we did wave as we drove through Kingman !) Ger and I were already down the pike (get it?) planning a trip from Seattle to Chicago, few days in Chicago and then on to NYC ….

I love train travel. It ain’t cheap, but it is an experience in itself, not just the necessary pain of getting from point A to point B.

[j44ke]

Too Tall may have a red headed kindred spirit in Oz.

See

Beau likes to repair stuff. Amongst other things.

I identify. Living in the country is all about tasks. I might start 12 of them, but I try to finish at least one each day. Then one day a week is errands so I can go about and get the things that will help complete the other 11 tasks. And groceries. Hardware and grocery day is usually Friday. That way I'm not using the car for stupid piddly trips for a widget or a gizmo. And maybe the meanwhile I figure out a solution for one or another stumbling block without needing anything from the hardware store (although a hardware store is my Disneyland Magical Kingdom.) This year the goal is to add riding the bike.

[sk_tle]

I identify. Living in the country is all about tasks. I might start 12 of them, but I try to finish at least one each day. Then one day a week is errands so I can go about and get the things that will help complete the other 11 tasks. And groceries. Hardware and grocery day is usually Friday. That way I'm not using the car for stupid piddly trips for a widget or a gizmo. And maybe the meanwhile I figure out a solution for one or another stumbling block without needing anything from the hardware store (although a hardware store is my Disneyland Magical Kingdom.) This year the goal is to add riding the bike.

Do you come back every time with a metric ton of hardware? Why not riding the bike to the hardware store? That way you could ride several days a week and go to Dysneyland Magical Kingdom as many times ! :D Win-Win!