Foresta Frames

[Chauncey Matthews]

I have rethought my original plan and developed a model suited to my abilities and goals as a framebuilder. While I have no plans to quit my day job, I am still approaching my business as if it was my only gig. Craig

Yo Craig,
In what ways did your original plan differ from this new one?

[Craig Ryan]

Eric, thanks! I hope to get to NAHBS with a regular booth, but I'll spend this year in the New Builder area. It is slow, but by February I hope to have my ducks in a row. Hopefully I'll be able to meet you there face to face.
Craig

[Craig Ryan]

Yo Craig,
In what ways did your original plan differ from this new one?

That is a good question Chauncey. As my intentions have become more serious, I've had to ask myself serious questions. I'm not in my 20's starting a career. Instead, I have a career to protect, and the responsibility to maintain my retirement goals and "vigor" for teaching. I need to keep my spending within the limits of my capability. I've decidedly narrowed my focus concerning what I will build. In the past I've bought in numbers, way beyond a months, or six months needs. Now, I am only ordering what I need for the next few weeks and that's it. I'm also limiting my purchases by working with a smaller selection of parts. The same can be said for shop supplies and tools. I've figured out what works for me, so I'm not trying new things to get a job done anymore. The choice to build a shop doesn't necessarily save me money, but it will make life easier, and the downsizing of it will be a savings. By building an outbuilding we can make our cars last longer and protect their investment. I also do not want to paint in a garage attached to our house. The choice to limit the size of my shop was important. Potential resale of our property played a large part in the decision. A smaller shop will be easier to get the money back out of someday if we ever move. The smaller shop necessitates cutting back to the core of building. Because of this I am not planning on using any heavy machinery. The mill is going to go, and I won't be getting a lathe. I can focus on my building skills, not trying to learn the ropes of being a machinist. This will help keep my investment low, and allow me to eventually buy some better "core" tools. I hope this helps explain where I'm going. Thanks!
craig

[edoz]

It's a dang shame about that mill, I wish I were local enough to buy it from you.

[Chauncey Matthews]

Thanks for the reply, it sounds like you've thought things out pretty well- now you just have to put the plan in action and see if it works for ya!
Still, are you sure you want to sell the mill? Seems to me that a versatile tool like that would be the perfect thing to have around. I'm always wishing I had a mill every time I'm making dropouts, brake mounts, fork crowns, etc.
One of these days....

[steve garro]

don't sell your mill!!! for the few SqFt. it takes you will find uses for it. as your building progresses you will start looking at it thinking "I bet i could do this on that....." If you didn't have it I'd say don't worry about it/one, but you have it & to replace it will just get more & more expensive, and likely a lesser machine. Heck, put an H2O boss fixture on there & drill away! - Garro.

[Britishbane]

That is a good question Chauncey. As my intentions have become more serious, I've had to ask myself serious questions. I'm not in my 20's starting a career. Instead, I have a career to protect, and the responsibility to maintain my retirement goals and "vigor" for teaching. I need to keep my spending within the limits of my capability. I've decidedly narrowed my focus concerning what I will build. In the past I've bought in numbers, way beyond a months, or six months needs. Now, I am only ordering what I need for the next few weeks and that's it. I'm also limiting my purchases by working with a smaller selection of parts. The same can be said for shop supplies and tools. I've figured out what works for me, so I'm not trying new things to get a job done anymore. The choice to build a shop doesn't necessarily save me money, but it will make life easier, and the downsizing of it will be a savings. By building an outbuilding we can make our cars last longer and protect their investment. I also do not want to paint in a garage attached to our house. The choice to limit the size of my shop was important. Potential resale of our property played a large part in the decision. A smaller shop will be easier to get the money back out of someday if we ever move. The smaller shop necessitates cutting back to the core of building. Because of this I am not planning on using any heavy machinery. The mill is going to go, and I won't be getting a lathe. I can focus on my building skills, not trying to learn the ropes of being a machinist. This will help keep my investment low, and allow me to eventually buy some better "core" tools. I hope this helps explain where I'm going. Thanks!
craig

Is this decision at all related to Dave Kirk's smoked out section? He stated very much the same reasons for his minimalist (in terms of machining) approach to his business.

[Craig Ryan]

Is this decision at all related to Dave Kirk's smoked out section? He stated very much the same reasons for his minimalist (in terms of machining) approach to his business.

Britishbane, Yes, yes, yes. Dave, and Carl before him made me examine my needs as a one man shop. I read The Goal, then applied the thinking to my needs. Initially, I thought as a one man shop it would be important to be able to build my own tooling. I figured I'd need a mill and a lathe on a routine basis. When you look around at the builders who have mills and lathes, they are rigging them up as dedicated, or semi-dedicated stations to miter tubes etc. The jigs for those activities aren't cheap, think thousands, and what do they do which couldn't be accomplish with a bench grinder or sander, a drillpress, and a file? I don't need to miter TI or carbon just steel. If I decided to make all my own jigs, how likely would it be they could come close to the quality Don or Jeff offer? So what would I be using the machine for? I could make little nick-nacks, but for the savings in tooling, time, education, and space, I could make a drawing and have someone else make it for me. Of course I realize there are thousands of uses for a lathe, and I'd love to face headtubes, and turn crown races. Maybe someday if I have the room.

I made a list ranking the tools I'd like to use or upgrade in the future. The machines got pushed out the bottom.
1. Space for bench, vise, brazing
2. Space for grinding, sanding, drilling, second vise to hammer on.
3. Space for 3' x 4' surface table and bike stand
4. Paint booth
5. Blast cabinet
6. Soak/pickling tanks

The size I have to work with is a given. I spend a lot of time in my shop, and I want it very close to home. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti machine in any way. I just have to deal with the constraints imposed on me.
Craig

[edoz]

Craig, I can totally understand the desire to downsize and simplify. Lots of guys do just fine without all that stuff, and when you get comfortable with it you won't want it any other way.

[Jef58]

Craig, to add what Edoz says... You want to set up a dedicated paint booth where a lot of builders sub that work out. It sounds like you picked painting space over machinery space as a long term goal. Paint and finish are areas that you can be creative with your own style and uniqueness that can stand apart. Landshark and Pegoretti have their own uniqueness that may be controversial, but definitely "their" signature and certainly unmistakeable. Even the recent Vanilla scheme has stirred a little of the pot here and there.

Good luck to you, and hopefully you'll go for your own style in finish work.... like your little panel you did on the red bike.

[Britishbane]

Britishbane, Yes, yes, yes. Dave, and Carl before him made me examine my needs as a one man shop.

Craig, I thought as much. I am absolutely thrilled that this smoked out section has been able to help the frame builders here at VS as well as educate and entertain the cycling enthusiast. Rock on Craig.

[Craig Ryan]

I hope it hasn't seemed like I've dropped off the face of the earth, but I've been busy and want to give you all an update on what's happening in the Foresta world.
As you can see in the photo below, excavation has begun on my little shed where I plan on doing all my building. I've spent the past months working out all the details for the $ part of it all, and it's starting to come together. In a nutshell, my shop is being financed by simply refinancing my house. It was a long process, but I'd recommend it to anyone if you have the credit to back you up. Hopefully I'll have concrete tomorrow, then it'll go quickly.

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Meanwhile, my shop space is in limbo as I've filled it up with some nice tools, thanks to Susan's father. A move for him meant his basement woodworking shop had to go, and I was the man with a truck! I now will have access to a very nice drill press, an air filtration system, band saw, table saw, and boxes of hand tools. Space will be at a premium in my new shop, so I may have some tools in the garage which aren't related to metal work, and others on wheels so I can stow them more easily.

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It's all looking up and starting to come together, I'm hoping a Senator will drop by!

On the building front, I've just finished a frame which is a full prototype of something I call "Jake Brake." A sure footed road bike which will be at home with 27mm tires. It's on hold for paint, which on hold for the new pickle tank, which is on hold for the tools to be where I can use them. I'll try to update some of those specifics when I get to them. Thanks for reading!
Craig

[Craig Ryan]

What's been going on with Foresta? Any thoughts of building have ground to a halt as I focus on my new shop construction. It won't be long before I can move in. Meanwhile, I'd like to show off two of the frames I've made this summer. Built up they are great rides, and represent 359, their chosen name. I've got another frame in limbo waiting for paint, it's called Jake Brake, and you'll see it as soon as possible.

Attachment 23216
My shop will have double 36" doors on the front, and a single 36" door on the rear. Both lead to concrete pads for work outside. Each wall will have a window of either 36" x 36", or 24" x 24". A drop down staircase will lead to storage in the attic as a bonus. Right about now it's looking like it'll be built better than my house

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[Jonathan]

craig,

thanks for the heads up on the poska paint pens in another thread. I've been looking for something that will hold up to imron clear and they do the job well.

Jonathan

[Craig Ryan]

Good to hear Jonathan. Remember, it was Dave Bohm that steered us toward them. I think the key is in using the water based variety. I see Sharpie has expanded their water base line. Also, there are a lot of water based air brush products out there. I'm all for trying more as soon as my new paint booth is up and running.
Craig

[Chauncey Matthews]

Hi Craig,
What is better about the water based ones?

[Craig Ryan]

Chauncey, I believe either will work as long as they dry completely. In experimenting I've had the oil based paint markers work out fine sometimes, and other times lift under the clearcoat. The problem is you want to shoot the clear within a short timeframe after shooting the color. In that time the oil based paint won't dry completely. A thin line may be fine, but a filled in shape will likely lift. The still wet paint is trapped under the fast drying clear. All of this makes sense in the world of oil painting on canvas. The under layers are lean on oil to make sure they dry. Then an oil painting isn't varnished until enough time has passed, like a month or so, in order to not trap in the oils within the lower surfaces. This is why some of Ryder's paintings are all falling apart. Light fastness is another factor, but most clearcoats are UV protected.

[Chauncey Matthews]

I was thinking it had something to do with how well it covered.
I've only used a paint pen to sign a frame on top of the clear, but I have one coming up that will need to have fill in work done between the color and clear....so thanks for the info!

[Craig Ryan]

Hopefully you are aware I've been working on building a new shop dedicated entirely to framebuilding. It's been a long few weeks as I've worked through details and turned my life upside down getting it all done. In the beginning Susan and I talked through all the options for growth, with the biggest goal being to get me out of the garage, and the cars in. We looked at renting space, moving, adding onto the garage, and even adding onto the house itself. In the end we settled on a "super shed." The shed started life at about 300 square feet, then was slowly parred down to 200 square feet. The process let me think through many of my needs and wants, and separated them. I got with a great builder who's helped me in tight spots before and we talked through the main features. Concrete floor that is stable, insulated well, windows, porch area for working, 100 amp service, and double doors for moving equipment in and out. Initially I wanted something very energy efficient that would use passive solar light for winter warmth. But in talking we decided having storage space up above was more important, so we just insulated the heck out of it all. With lights and a full carpet we have plenty of storage for all of Julie's stuff. Julie, Susan's daughter is almost in the middle of a stint in the Peace Corps (Namibia, Africa).

Jon, who is the true craftsmen in this whole project doesn't believe in building things wrong. Every detail on this workshop is spot on, and the entire structure is built better than my house. Susan and I are in awe, and totally tapped out for funds. But we did some extras, like a storage area for our mower etc, and a concrete patio off the house, and ... a bunch of landscaping out front to distract the neighbors while the real building was going on out back. So some of the improvements I was hoping to work in will have to wait. A blast booth, a nicer compressor, a nicer vise; they will all have to go on the next wish list.

As it sits now I'm finishing the inside. I've got the benches in and lights up, but all the character has to be added in the next week or so. I hope to be back cutting tubes soon. Stay tuned!
Craig

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[edoz]

It looks really nice. Is that last picture where the vise goes?