Youth Unemployment

[caleb]

Imagine being a member of Generation X. Say you graduate from college in 1995 and get your first job. Only 5 years later your savings disappear in the crash of 2000. Then you spend 8 years chasing a house that you can't afford because prices are being driven higher by Boomers with more money than sense. Then, just as you've gotten a good nest egg, it's all taken away again in the crash of 2008--again fueled by the greed of the previous generation. And let's not forget that by 2008 you're in middle management, so you're first in line to lose your job as the previous generation scrambles to cover its ass.

Sound like fun? This isn't my personal experience because I've been successfully self-employed since grad school, but I know many, many smart and hard working people who have gone through just this. And the generations after Gen X? They don't have a chance.

The hopeful side of me actually wants to think that the Gen Xers got the worst of it (I'm not one of them). They went into debt for two seriously overvalued assets: education and houses. When the market for both assets went bust, they were (and are) left holding the debt.

I want to think that it'll at least be a little better for subsequent generations. At least today nobody thinks houses will appreciate at 10%/year. Few think going $200k in debt for a second tier law degree is a winning proposition. I'd like to think those coming along now will at least have a little better information and counsel than Gen X had.

(Of course this optimism could be hosed if/when the student loan bubble bursts or if/when the medical and med tech bubbles burst, but I'd like to be optimistic.)

[lukasz]

The truth of the matter is that approximately 95% of the PhD programs in the Humanities should be shut down. There are not jobs to place the people with degrees. The only reason that they exist is so that universities can use them as cheap labor for TA's and introductory classes. It is an extremely sad story.

I'm starting a bicycle travel business after I get my degree ;)

Truth be told I'll be happy at a teaching/community college. I'm not into the politics of academia and I'm not in it for money or fame.

[TomW]

The hopeful side of me actually wants to think that the Gen Xers got the worst of it (I'm not one of them). They went into debt for two seriously overvalued assets: education and houses. When the market for both assets went bust, they were (and are) left holding the debt.

I want to think that it'll at least be a little better for subsequent generations.

I very sadly think this is absolutely not the worst of it bar structural change. The US and the rest of the world are seeing ever increasing polarisation between the rich and poor and the marginalisation of the poor. The effect of this is meritocracy becomes a joke and it becomes a self perpetuating system of elites favouring themselves.

See it in the current US political system where somehow those who are working class and poor actually vote for tax cuts on the rich and the undoing of the basic structural underpinnings of society that help those with little actually enter the system and play the game.

See it in the United Kingdom where our elected prime minister (36% of the vote) has decided he has a mandate to rip apart the NHS, schools, welfare and disability support. Now, if you are born in unfortunate circumstances you are ever more likely to die in unfortunate circumstances.

See it in China which has made itself anew in 50 years but now has a ruling class with their princeling inheritors who suck out the wealth of the country through a combination of corruption and the shrewd operation of political levers.

See it in Hong Kong which returned a budget surplus this year and is indirectly funnelling that to the tycoons through paying utility bills (owned by the tycoons).

The base conditions on which much of America's success was built; openness, competition are now degraded into inbuilt advantage. Same is true in Asia. In Europe we have always had class problems but there was a compact between the ruling and working class where it meant that there would be a basic level set. That is being removed by the anti Keynesianism of austerity.

I write this as a privileged little shit who got lucky as he had middle class parents who (effectively) bought my way through superior education into a better school, then a better university, then a profession, then the better law firm etc.. The advantages just spiral on. And am I better than those I "beat"; no.

Youth unemployment/ youth employment... it is affected more by structures than 99% of people would admit.

[turpentine]

My son thinks that because he's going to college 18 hours a week he shouldn't have to get a job, "I'm studying ..... hey dad can you lend me some money? " Where the hell did I go wrong.
Trade apprentices here in Australia are drying up because there are no incentives for employers to take one on, by the time you train them and they start to pay their way, there's a good chance they'll leave and start up as your opposition. The bottom line with any employee is to make money out of them, if they are only there to get through the extra work you may as well just cut your bad clients and save yourself the headaches.
I'm starting to sound like one of those grumpy old men.
Bill

18 credit hours or 18 total hours?
18 credit hours is a full load and he SHOULD be studying all the time or wasting the money failing the classes. So long as he isn't partying more than 1 sometimes 2 nights a week he should graduate at least.

recently graduated and underemployed checking in.

edit: didn't realize this was 5 pages.

[JoB]

As a college prof at a lib arts college, I would say that if you major at a lib arts vague academic field, you should *always* have a plan on what to do with this. Yes, this sounds obvious, yes, we tell this our advisees from day one (at least the good advisors do), but it does not always happen.

Too late for you now, but a philosophy major with a biz minor and two summer-long internships looks a hell of a lot better than a ... philosophy major in a competitive pile of resumes. I cannot overemphasize the importance of college students doing any kind of work outside schoolwork during their college days.

It's tough out there.

As a young person who majored in possibly the most vaguely academic liberal arts field humanly possible, I can't help but feel like some of this is about the absolutely batshit stuff we tell high school seniors about the purpose of college-- it certainly made me smarter and more critically adept but it also basically hardened me against any career path where someone else tells me to do tangible, specific tasks all day, which is basically 90% of the world of work.

[Dallas Tex]

A more crude view. You get what you get. It seems hypocritical to me that we as a nation vote in politicians that demonize businesses and make it more difficult for them to operate within the confines of the US, then act dumbfounded when these businesses don't expand & create jobs in the US.

It seems ironic to me when folks with a car from Korea, shoes from vietnam, bike from china, and appliances from China can't figure out why their kids are having trouble finding a good job.

[vertical_doug]

A more crude view. You get what you get. It seems hypocritical to me that we as a nation vote in politicians that demonize businesses and make it more difficult for them to operate within the confines of the US, then act dumbfounded when these businesses don't expand & create jobs in the US.

It seems ironic to me when folks with a car from Korea, shoes from vietnam, bike from china, and appliances from China can't figure out why their kids are having trouble finding a good job.

Ummm, watch what they do, not what they say. Pols may demonize business for sound bytes on TV for campaigns, but then defer to the business paid lobbyist for bill writing. The reality is globalisation is much more complicated. Business is way ahead of governments in exploited loopholes, tax jurisdictions, environmental laws, employment laws etc. With the winner take all mentality being bred into the global elite, the money will not be shared.

I always view China/India as a win/win. We buy their cheap stuff and have exported our polllution to them.

[bcm119]

The "personal responsibility" argument I hear so often with respect to the unemployment of young people baffles me. The idea that 20-somethings fresh out of school can't find employment because they are too lazy or entitled to start from the bottom is insane. I occasionally screen for positions and read many resumes. I see lots of young people willing to start working immediately for peanuts just to get some experience. Like 100s of resumes, from smart young graduates. The idea that they should be flipping burgers is completely wrong; they should be at home learning practical skills in their field or taking courses. We're already getting blown out of the water by China in tech skills, the last thing we need is for our smart young people to waste their time flipping burgers. If you are a skilled worker and get laid off, by all means take advantage of unemployment benefits, they exist for this very reason. It is our country's investment in its skilled workers, and there is no shame in taking it. Polish your skills and get back into your field, and leave the burger flipping to those whose potential it matches.

There has also been a major shift in the job market in terms of who it favors. It is true that generally, very smart, very hard working, and very adaptable people will have an easier time staying employed, no doubt about that. The problem is that the whole mid section of the intellectual bell curve is made of people who are of mediocre potential, or who have more right-brained intelligence. This is simple demographics. 20 years ago it was far easier for the person with mediocre intellect or more right-brained skills to find decent paying work. That has shifted dramatically. The market has changed to one that severely favors the mathematical/analytic mind. There are people who simply aren't wired to learn these skills, and those people will struggle to find work, much less work that can pay bills.

And that word that everyone is afraid to say: Luck. It exists, it matters, and it plays a huge role in everyone's life. I wish more people would acknowledge it.

That is my perspective from a technology-heavy field of work. I'm not sure it applies to the more traditional professions, but tech fields are growing fast and influencing the market to a great degree.

[Human Epic Jolt]

Where do you want to go today?

[Eddie]

In my field people literally wait for professors to die. Here's some stats from an article a colleague wrote last year: "I applied for a total of 281 academic positions: 181 tenure-track (or otherwise permanent); 58 replacement (visiting, sub, etc.), 36 postdocs, and 6 public historian (i.e. in-house historian at the Department of Defense). I had (or was offered) 15 first-round interviews (8 of which for tenure-track or permanent jobs) and 7 on-campus interviews (4 for tenure-track/permanent). The result: five job offers, two of which were tenure/track or permanent and three for visiting positions (including the two visiting positions I accepted last year)." I sure am looking forward to THAT.

Lukasz, do I read you correctly to be complaining about the prospect of FIVE job offers, two of them tenure track?

My sig other has a fancy Ivy League PhD, received two full time offers (also one 1-2 year post), and managed to land the best job out of anyone in her program.

Brace yourself man. It's rough. Five offers in the current climate and you're doing real, real well.

[Mike Mcdermid]

Where do you want to go today?

confirmed ^^^^^^^ Nocturne

[Saab2000]

I've been dragging my ass out of bed at 4am for 17 years, show up on time to my job, do it the way I'm trained to do it, can pass a random drug test and don't fight with my bosses or my co-workers. I still have a job. This is not that hard.

The cliché is true: everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarten.

My company has been hiring every day since I've been there in one capacity or other and many of the leaders of the company started in 'low level' positions. There is plenty of opportunity in this country for those willing to make a bit of sacrifice.

There are no political undertones here. It's just the way it is. I drove pizzas as my first job out of a good college. 'Work' is beneath nobody.

[Human Epic Jolt]

stick to what you're good at i suppose is the eh response. unless of course you're a dog in which case you can branch out.

(jerk joke)

[sonny]

Luck

yep. and it seems more employers want to hire somebody to be their friend.

in my near constant search for more & better work i meet a lot of employers and in the process of being turned down i've been told that i didn't get the job because we didn't "connect"--apparently nothing to do with my qualifications (or lack thereof). this has happened more than once at this point and it wasn't for customer service/point of sale positions.

i am straightforward and outgoing in the workplace, but a head down, nose-to-the-grindstone kinda guy. i don't make useless banter, engage in weird passive-aggressive behaviors, or do stuff just to look busy.

sometimes i might as well be from a different planet.

no grump
just sayin

[Human Epic Jolt]

yep. and it seems more employers want to hire somebody to be their friend.

in my near constant search for more & better work i meet a lot of employers and in the process of being turned down i've been told that i didn't get the job because we didn't "connect"--apparently nothing to do with my qualifications (or lack thereof). this has happened more than once at this point and it wasn't for customer service/point of sale positions.

i am straightforward and outgoing in the workplace, but a head down, nose-to-the-grindstone kinda guy. i don't make useless banter, engage in weird passive-aggressive behaviors, or do stuff just to look busy.

sometimes i might as well be from a different planet.

no grump
just sayin

the three r's.

[bcm119]

I've been dragging my ass out of bed at 4am for 17 years, show up on time to my job, do it the way I'm trained to do it, can pass a random drug test and don't fight with my bosses or my co-workers. I still have a job. This is not that hard.

The cliché is true: everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarten.

My company has been hiring every day since I've been there in one capacity or other and many of the leaders of the company started in 'low level' positions. There is plenty of opportunity in this country for those willing to make a bit of sacrifice.

There are no political undertones here. It's just the way it is. I drove pizzas as my first job out of a good college. 'Work' is beneath nobody.

Your experience is becoming the exception though, which is part of why there is a problem. You're in a service industry that isn't going away anytime soon, and people will always be needed to drive planes. In that respect you are one of the lucky ones. In the vast majority of technology industries however, if you show up on time every day and do the same thing you were trained to do for 20 years and never argue with your boss, you will stagnate at best and be shown the door at worst. It's about adapting, constantly learning new skills in your spare time, innovating, etc., or you're out. Very left-brained activities that don't come easily to a lot of people. Very different from many service industry-based careers, and this type of thing is taking over the market.

[Human Epic Jolt]

bunch of fucking moaners.

[lukasz]

Lukasz, do I read you correctly to be complaining about the prospect of FIVE job offers, two of them tenure track?

My sig other has a fancy Ivy League PhD, received two full time offers (also one 1-2 year post), and managed to land the best job out of anyone in her program.

Brace yourself man. It's rough. Five offers in the current climate and you're doing real, real well.

Nah, I think that's really good. Of course those offers are probably at places like the University of middle-of-nowhere-land. And it took him two years of applying and almost 300 applications. After the first year and no job offers it looked much worse from his perspective. And he's got pretty good credentials.

The way I see it I'm gonna write something that'll get published and get me a job in the next few years or I won't and will never be able to land a job at a research university. And you know what: I don't care.

[Saab2000]

Your experience is becoming the exception though, which is part of why there is a problem. You're in a service industry that isn't going away anytime soon, and people will always be needed to drive planes. In that respect you are one of the lucky ones. In the vast majority of technology industries however, if you show up on time every day and do the same thing you were trained to do for 20 years and never argue with your boss, you will stagnate at best and be shown the door at worst. It's about adapting, constantly learning new skills in your spare time, innovating, etc., or you're out. Very left-brained activities that don't come easily to a lot of people. Very different from many service industry-based careers, and this type of thing is taking over the market.

I hear ya. Mine is a unique job. But the qualities I mentioned are universal. I have a friend who keeps moaning about not being able to find work but he won't make the sacrifices needed. Work is called "work" for a reason and nobody in modern Western society died from working too hard.

[TomW]

Work is called "work" for a reason and nobody in modern Western society died from working too hard.

I am afraid I am going to have to call you out absolutely on this. Not true. Hard work regularly kills, maims and disables people. I've know at least two people personally who have committed suicide from working too hard at law firms in London. One was particularly brutal and public as the guy threw himself down the stairs at the Tate London.

Japan even has a work for it...: karoshi, “death by overwork”. If you want to feel hollow inside at the half up: half down effects of industrialisation read this about Ssangyong in Korea and the treatment of workers there.

This whole "my generation worked the young doesn't" is absolute tosh and demeaning to the difficulties the young face. We are in a present where the economic system is tiered to corporations and McJobs are the future. However, this is not even a few hours at the local McDonalds kind of job the older generation may have been used to. It is computer optimised irregular shifts of 3 hours on semi-permanent status to ensure that no permanent benefits are given. Or it is working with electronic tags like criminals in Amazon warehouses.

Read this and really ask yourself whether this is a future you want for your relatives, friends, kids, or, really anyone? It is soulless and beneath what we should accept as a society.

Simply saying that you can get a job with hard work is a panacea which just hides the problem. Could black people prior to the 1964 Act get a job if they worked hard enough? Can women at work succeed if they work hard enough without equality legislation? No.

With the younger generation saddled by debt, in a country where resources are now expensive and the paths of opportunity narrowed, work alone is simply not enough. They need help and understanding and we don't give it we will all fall behind.