Zanconato

[Paradise]

Hi, Bob. Great to hear you are enjoying the bike! Please send me over some pictures when you get a chance.

I'm feeling you regarding scaling up for bigger production. That makes sense. I was always amazed with how efficiently and to such high standards Seven was able to make bikes during my time there. Giving this more thought over the past day or two, I suppose a fear I have is the business would lose the identity and purpose that I want it to have. Maybe it's easier in my mind to justify not going down that path using the excuse of how hard it would be to scale up rather than just confronting the realization that deep down I just want to preserve the business as it is.

Geez, you guys are giving me lots to chew on here.

Mike, thanks for taking the time to answer all of our questions. This thread has been great, then you bring in babes too. Holy crap atmo!

Just to get you lusting over the idea of larger scale here's a story for you. I brought this frame into a rather new bike shop in Wilmington, DE. to give them the honor of building it up for me. It's a Specialized and Serotta custom shop so I figured based on Serotta giving them a dealership they were worthy of the build.

I brought it in on Saturday and they tell me it'll be a week before they get to it. The owner, wrenches some, so I got a call Sunday afternoon and then again Monday at work. He tells me that bike frame was so hot, he couldn't let it sit there but had to build it up. He wants to know when I'm going to come in and pick it up. So I go in and pick it up that night after work. While talking with Matt, who built it up, he tells me a number of customers came in and asked when they started carrying that brand and various other questions about their interest in the bike. When I saw the bike built up, all I could think of was this is a work of art and a real beauty! She rides like it too. Had my second ride on it tonight and came away equally impressed as my first ride.

I'm still waiting on a pair of hand built Alchemy tubulars from Jeremy. When I get them and my saddle choice finalized I'll take new pictures and send them to you and post them here and on the forum, across the hall.

[cardinal]

Hi Tim,
I'll have to hunt around. There are so many awesome bikes that have been made over the past decade. I'll get some up for you. Here's one to start though. The bikes of Sven Nys at Treviso Worlds. I loved how simple and purposefully specked the bikes were. The tools of a master.

Mike,
Were you in Treviso? I was there with my wife, we were hanging out by the stair run up with the Portland cross crusade crew. That was the coolest race I've ever been to! Cyclocross is a big part of the Zanconato identity from my perspective. Can you touch on why? Also if you could improve cyclocross equpiment, what would you tackle? (like 26.0 bars with the right bend, or front brakes that work...)

Thanks for the conversation.

[Erik.Lazdins]

Mike,
thanks for putting yourself out there on this thread - great stuff, a treat to read and follow as this thread develops. I'm a big fan of yours and your bikes and wish you the best,

Erik

[zank]

Are your frames like your children? Or just a collection of joined tubes? Or something in between? How do you feel when you see one of your bikes for sale by the original customer for whom you created the frame?

Good morning. This is a good one. Thanks for asking. For me, each frame is a representation of the relationship I have with the customer. It's more than just a collection of tubes, but I don't get emotionally attached either. It's somewhere in between. Each frame is an opportunity for me to do a better job than the one before, so I value each frame in that way too.

Resale is an odd topic for me. Like I said above, the frames and the customers are tied together. Some I expect will be resold. Some are resold weeks after the first owner takes delivery. From knowing the customer, it's almost expected. I don't fret about those. There's no loss of sleep. Others, though, do take me aback. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I get really disappointed if a bike is sold due to a vendor's work. This still reflects very poorly on me because I 1) chose the vendor and 2) let it go after inspecting it. Those are tough to take. Ultimately, I know that cyclists like new toys. I can't spend too much time or energy wondering about bikes that are resold. I know riders just want something new every so often. That's part of the fun, right? I'd be very worried though about what I was doing if a large number of bikes starting showing up in the classifieds.

Thoughts?

[zank]

yo zank - what's your take on the public's (at large) view of hand-built frames atmo?
i mean, there's a large segment that missed a preceding era or three and have no
depth when it comes to understanding the niche. these days, most folks view a
racing bicycle as those used by pros. it's been a long time since framebuilding and
the sport ran together. do you ever get the, "if your bicycles are that good how
come lance uses a trek?" stuff thrown at you? does it matter to you? do you have
a reply to folks who feel this way? i wrestle with that framebuilding has this quaint
and ye olde crap placed on its doorstep and have developed my own filters. what's
the company line at your place.

and, just because it's friday in oz and i am feeling casual i have to add:
massachusetts fikcung rocks imho.

Not only are there a few generations of riders whom don't know the niche and its roots in racing, there's also a generation now whom has never ridden anything other than a mass produced carbon frame and fork. Hey, those bikes are a ridiculously great value, but it does make it a tougher conversation when they approach me and they have "old fashioned" on the brain. NAHBS and the internet have brought a lot of exposure and understanding to the public about the niche. But the "racing" piece is mixed in with the "art" piece, and it muddies the waters.

It only matters to me to the extent that I have to be more creative when trying to get my point across, that these bikes are built for everyday riding and racing and not as an "only for a sunny Sunday" type of bike. I guess I'm lucky that a lot of the bikes are seen at race venues, so that gives a bit of credibility straight away. But yes, the "quaint" thing bugs me. It also bugs me when blowhards call hand-made bikes "old fashioned" or that other bikes are "technically superior". Blah blah blah.They're delusional. Fact of the matter is that there isn't much being done in this industry that wasn't being done in others 15-20 years ago. To some guys in some industries, any technique to put a bicycle together is antiquated, but they wouldn't argue that the process serves the purpose just fine. Feel me?

[zank]

Mike,

there are things when I build a frame I don't like to do and their are others I wish I could do all day long. Do you have a process or a part that you feel stoked to accomplish or one you could do without?

My favorite part is after I've massaged the castings so that everything fits just so, the tubes are mitered, the pieces are prepped and cleaned and I'm ready to start fluxing and loading them into jig. From that moment until the main frame is fully brazed...I could do that all day every day.

There are some mundane tasks I could do without, such as grinding brake boss features on crowns that will be used for cyclocross forks. That's pretty boring. Another is hammering on BB shells to get the DT/ST angle I need. It's not that I dislike them those steps as much as I find them dull.

What about you?

[zank]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to answer all of our questions. This thread has been great, then you bring in babes too. Holy crap atmo!

Just to get you lusting over the idea of larger scale here's a story for you. I brought this frame into a rather new bike shop in Wilmington, DE. to give them the honor of building it up for me. It's a Specialized and Serotta custom shop so I figured based on Serotta giving them a dealership they were worthy of the build.

I brought it in on Saturday and they tell me it'll be a week before they get to it. The owner, wrenches some, so I got a call Sunday afternoon and then again Monday at work. He tells me that bike frame was so hot, he couldn't let it sit there but had to build it up. He wants to know when I'm going to come in and pick it up. So I go in and pick it up that night after work. While talking with Matt, who built it up, he tells me a number of customers came in and asked when they started carrying that brand and various other questions about their interest in the bike. When I saw the bike built up, all I could think of was this is a work of art and a real beauty! She rides like it too. Had my second ride on it tonight and came away equally impressed as my first ride.

I'm still waiting on a pair of hand built Alchemy tubulars from Jeremy. When I get them and my saddle choice finalized I'll take new pictures and send them to you and post them here and on the forum, across the hall.

You made my day! Can't wait to see it. Tell us about the build.

[shand]

Good morning. This is a good one. Thanks for asking. For me, each frame is a representation of the relationship I have with the customer. It's more than just a collection of tubes, but I don't get emotionally attached either. It's somewhere in between. Each frame is an opportunity for me to do a better job than the one before, so I value each frame in that way too.

Resale is an odd topic for me. Like I said above, the frames and the customers are tied together. Some I expect will be resold. Some are resold weeks after the first owner takes delivery. From knowing the customer, it's almost expected. I don't fret about those. There's no loss of sleep. Others, though, do take me aback. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I get really disappointed if a bike is sold due to a vendor's work. This still reflects very poorly on me because I 1) chose the vendor and 2) let it go after inspecting it. Those are tough to take. Ultimately, I know that cyclists like new toys. I can't spend too much time or energy wondering about bikes that are resold. I know riders just want something new every so often. That's part of the fun, right? I'd be very worried though about what I was doing if a large number of bikes starting showing up in the classifieds.

Thoughts?

This is really interesting. I built a bike for a customer a couple of years ago. After a couple of weeks I normally send out an email just checking everything is ok. I hadn't heard from this guy at all after he received the bike and he never responded to my follow up email. I sort of forgot about it. Anyway, couple of weeks ago he calls me up to order a 29er (his previous bike was a 26" off road tourer) so I asked him about the other bike. He told me he didn't really like it, wasn't too sure why and really hadn't ridden it much. Because of the emotional investment he had in it (it was a long process!), he couldn't bring himself to part with it, so there it was, unridden and getting dusty.

The point is that in the intervening 2 years I had 1 bike come back to me broken and one bike come back to me cause I messed up some numbers on the geometry but that unridden, unwanted bike hit me harder than both of those. It seemed like much more of a failure and even more so as the customer didn't feel like he could talk to me about it.

Steven

[zank]

Mike,
Were you in Treviso? I was there with my wife, we were hanging out by the stair run up with the Portland cross crusade crew. That was the coolest race I've ever been to! Cyclocross is a big part of the Zanconato identity from my perspective. Can you touch on why? Also if you could improve cyclocross equpiment, what would you tackle? (like 26.0 bars with the right bend, or front brakes that work...)

Thanks for the conversation.

Hi Matt,
I'll be joining the conversation over on your thread. Nice work!

Yeah, we were there. We were across the back field from you guys on that greasy turn leading into the long straight heading into the loops before the stairs. We loved seeing the Cross Crusade flag being waved. We had prime seats to see the crash that unfortunately took Mourey out. Major bummer. But we got to hang out with some wacky Belgian fans who all came down in a bus. All they wanted to talk about was cross in the US and how they wanted to come race here. Funny stuff. The grass is always greener everywhere you turn.

I suppose this won't come as much of a surprise, but I think there are (at least) three areas that could stand to see some improvement in cross equipment.

Braking - I wish SRAM would consider taking a leap and design a Rival lever with an XX master cylinder in it. Maybe 120 rear/140 front rotors. Disks are fantastic. Hydros are light. Disks set up with little to no thought required except maybe for the bleeding, which is easy to master. But better braking would require...

Traction - Tubulars are great. Supple, ride nice, less prone to pinches and punctures. The treads suck. There, I said it. I know there is a balancing act between traction and rolling resistance. But I would venture to say that a greater percentage of time is lost in the corners due to traction issues than compared to rolling along a straightaway. I think chunks of time are lost in the corners.The Rhyno is as a good a choice as we have. With all of the tread design advances in the mtb world, I know we can do better.

Gearing - This is more of a gripe as a seller, but it would be nice if 46 chainrings were a more prevalent option and easier to track down. I know SRAM has taken the lead on this and has made 38/46 a combo standard and the rumors show that Campy may follow suit, but it took long enough. Maybe I should just be happy that it happened at all. Maybe the days of having to chase down chainrings for cross bikes are over. That would be sweet.

How about you? What do you think could use some improving?

[zank]

This is really interesting. I built a bike for a customer a couple of years ago. After a couple of weeks I normally send out an email just checking everything is ok. I hadn't heard from this guy at all after he received the bike and he never responded to my follow up email. I sort of forgot about it. Anyway, couple of weeks ago he calls me up to order a 29er (his previous bike was a 26" off road tourer) so I asked him about the other bike. He told me he didn't really like it, wasn't too sure why and really hadn't ridden it much. Because of the emotional investment he had in it (it was a long process!), he couldn't bring himself to part with it, so there it was, unridden and getting dusty.

The point is that in the intervening 2 years I had 1 bike come back to me broken and one bike come back to me cause I messed up some numbers on the geometry but that unridden, unwanted bike hit me harder than both of those. It seemed like much more of a failure and even more so as the customer didn't feel like he could talk to me about it.

Steven

Hi Steven. I feel your pain. I've been there. All we can do is really encourage the open dialogue, but we can't make them talk. I guess everyone has to make their own choices on how they want to handle a situation. Tough stuff.

[Jonathan]

My favorite part is after I've massaged the castings so that everything fits just so, the tubes are mitered, the pieces are prepped and cleaned and I'm ready to start fluxing and loading them into jig. From that moment until the main frame is fully brazed...I could do that all day every day.

There are some mundane tasks I could do without, such as grinding brake boss features on crowns that will be used for cyclocross forks. That's pretty boring. Another is hammering on BB shells to get the DT/ST angle I need. It's not that I dislike them those steps as much as I find them dull.

What about you?

Ask me when it's my turn.

[zank]

Ask me when it's my turn.

tease

[El Chaba]

I suppose I can trace my desire to build bicycle frames back to the 1993 Philadelphia Interbike show. I was a senior in high school and the bike shop I had grown up in and spent every dime of paper route money at invited me to attend with them. I had been riding a sweet 1981 Benotto that was handed down to me from my cousin in 1990, but walking into the hall and seeing all of the glitz and gleam was too much. Cliff, the shop owner and my teacher of all things cycling-tradition, directed me to the Carrera booth. He knew Claudio was my hero and the bikes were what he considered everything I would want and need. He was right. I ordered a Cassiopeia at the show. I loved that bike. I scrutinized every aspect of it, trying to figure out why Podium did what they did when making it. What I didn’t know at the time was that bike would become my muse years later.

.

I knew you had good taste.....

[WadePatton]

Thanks, John!

Yes, that was my big decision in 2008. I wanted to put 110% into this. My heart wasn't into the other track nearly as much as this one.

right on. as i spent 14 years getting 7 years worth of degrees that were, as i know now, going in the wrong direction--i routinely harass the college-aged kids i'm around with some reality-checks. i ask them what _are_ you going to do and how are you going about that. make 'em think a little.

[zank]

right on. as i spent 14 years getting 7 years worth of degrees that were, as i know now, going in the wrong direction--i routinely harass the college-aged kids i'm around with some reality-checks. i ask them what _are_ you going to do and how are you going about that. make 'em think a little.

Funny. I routinely harass starry-eyed frame builder hopefuls I'm around with some reality checks. I ask them the same questions. They don't realize that all of the blow and fast women come at a price. It's really hard on the family.

[Saab2000]

Funny. I routinely harass starry-eyed frame builder hopefuls I'm around with some reality checks. I ask them the same questions. They don't realize that all of the blow and fast women come at a price. It's really hard on the family.

Sounds like the airline biz. 'cept for the blow. The image/fantasy (Leo di Caprio as a Pan Am Captain in Catch Me if You Can) and the reality (my life) are not always the same.

Gotta keep those starry-eyed wannabes in check!

[Dave]

Sounds like the airline biz. 'cept for the blow. The image/fantasy (Leo di Caprio as a Pan Am Captain in Catch Me if You Can) and the reality (my life) are not always the same.

Gotta keep those starry-eyed wannabes in check!

Hell none of you have anything on teachers, we are the most deviant group out there.


Z,

Had a qustion regarding what you said here...I am copying as I still don't know how to quote peopel multiple times, so please excuse me.

Good morning. This is a good one. Thanks for asking. For me, each frame is a representation of the relationship I have with the customer. It's more than just a collection of tubes, but I don't get emotionally attached either

My question is about the relationship with customers. I understand why it might be beneficial not to get too involved with a customer, but do you ever wish that you could? I think cycling is unique on the aspect of meeting new folks and building relationships with them. I have not encountered anything else like it in my few years on the planet. I totally get not allowing yourself to get involved emotionally with the frames you produce, but are there folks you really look forward to building for? I would imagine family of course, but are there people who you would love to see in the que? Other builders perhaps?

I suppose this could lead into who would you love to build a frame for, but not trying to send too loaded of a question.

[VertigoCycles]

Braking - I wish SRAM would consider taking a leap and design a Rival lever with an XX master cylinder in it. Maybe 120 rear/140 front rotors. Disks are fantastic. Hydros are light. Disks set up with little to no thought required except maybe for the bleeding, which is easy to master. But better braking would require...

So happy you wrote that.

[corko]

Removed .......

[Shinomaster]

Mike, I want an aluminum road bike.