Maietta Cycles

[cardinal]

Wow Tony!
I have been out of touch for a while, so I didn't see this until today. You should have dropped us a line and visited Signal while you were in Portland. Your time with Carl is a lot like what I had planned earlier this spring. I had a conversation with Curt Goodrich about coming out to see his shop. Curt was very accepting of the idea and said the same thing, that I should share the experience. I arranged a place to stay and got a discount ticket from my mom who works for USAir. That is where our stories split. I got on the plane with sugarplums dancing in my head and god bumped off the flight in Phoenix. I spent the day, and some of the evening in the airport, found out that all the flights were overbooked for the weekend & realized that there was no way for me to make the trip happen. It was a real bummer, but I hope to get out there sometime in the future.

This kind of interaction is what I thought the potential of the framebuilders' collective could be. It's exciting to see. Thanks for making it happen, and thanks to Carl for being so generous.

[anthonymaietta]

Wow Tony!
I have been out of touch for a while, so I didn't see this until today. You should have dropped us a line and visited Signal while you were in Portland. Your time with Carl is a lot like what I had planned earlier this spring. I had a conversation with Curt Goodrich about coming out to see his shop. Curt was very accepting of the idea and said the same thing, that I should share the experience. I arranged a place to stay and got a discount ticket from my mom who works for USAir. That is where our stories split. I got on the plane with sugarplums dancing in my head and god bumped off the flight in Phoenix. I spent the day, and some of the evening in the airport, found out that all the flights were overbooked for the weekend & realized that there was no way for me to make the trip happen. It was a real bummer, but I hope to get out there sometime in the future.

This kind of interaction is what I thought the potential of the framebuilders' collective could be. It's exciting to see. Thanks for making it happen, and thanks to Carl for being so generous.

Hey Matt,

I really wanted to get out and see more of you guys. My week was jammed solid with sales meetings for my day job at the Monarch in Clackamas. I was indoors between the meetings and group dinners for 95% of the day. We hit up some pretty standard places; The Claim Jumper, Gustav's, Sayler's...and the last night at McCormick and Schmicks on the river downtown. I didn't have a car, but was able to borrow a colleague's and visit with Aaron Hayes (Courage) Monday afternoon. He sold me his Anvil brake boss fixture and we chatted for a couple hours. I was honestly a bit upset he put the torch down in January and closed up operations. I always considered you, he, and I as contemporaries since we "debuted" on the "national scene" together at NAHBS 4.0 in Portland 2008. His work was always so interesting and clean; its a really too bad he couldn't make the financials work.

The really blows about your trip to go see Curt!

Tony

[Dornbox]

Chris,

In addition to welding the frame into proper alignment we also worked on aethstetics. Strive to always weld going in the same direction and hide your start/stop points at 6 o'clock. I know from my own personal experience that this is not natural and does not alway put your hands/torch in the most comfortable position. The easy road is to position your hands in the most comfortable spot and weld; invariably though the start/stop points end up being at the ears of the tubes. While these "craters" will disappear under paint on a steel frame they will be flashing lights on the Ti frames I hope to tackle in 2011. I am getting my one pass steel welding to the point where two pass Ti welding will be second nature.

Come up to Shirley sometime with a 6 pack of your homebrew and I'll show you a few things.


Tony

You know it! I've been watching your welding closely over the last year and have to say I've personally notice a dramatic leap. I have no doubt you'll be up for Ti soon!

[anthonymaietta]

I have been going through the fitting and design process with a client in South Carolina and I have to say he provided some of the most detailed answers I've received to date.

Here is Page 2 sheet from my Information Packet & Customer Fitting Manual.

[brucew]

without EPO

[cardinal]

Hey Matt,

I really wanted to get out and see more of you guys. My week was jammed solid with sales meetings for my day job at the Monarch in Clackamas. I was indoors between the meetings and group dinners for 95% of the day. We hit up some pretty standard places; The Claim Jumper, Gustav's, Sayler's...and the last night at McCormick and Schmicks on the river downtown. I didn't have a car, but was able to borrow a colleague's and visit with Aaron Hayes (Courage) Monday afternoon. He sold me his Anvil brake boss fixture and we chatted for a couple hours. I was honestly a bit upset he put the torch down in January and closed up operations. I always considered you, he, and I as contemporaries since we "debuted" on the "national scene" together at NAHBS 4.0 in Portland 2008. His work was always so interesting and clean; its a really too bad he couldn't make the financials work.

The really blows about your trip to go see Curt!

Tony

Next time you are in Portland give me a call. I know I can help you at least find better food. And yes I too am bummed that Aaron decided to stop making bikes. His work is top notch and he is a really nice guy. It's a pretty competitive market in Portland, and there is a wide variety of quality. Aaron was one of the guys doing it right. Hopefully we will be able to convince him to work with us on projects in the future. He's got mad design skills!

[John M]

I have been going through the fitting and design process with a client in South Carolina and I have to say he provided some of the most detailed answers I've received to date.

Hi Anthony,

I have enjoyed your thread and other communications from you to VS and elsewhere on the web. You seem to be one of the newer guys in the game that can make it long term (newer as compared to RS, DK, TK, etc...). How do you translate this order into a geometry? I expect that the numbers are on page 3, but the information on page 2 is pretty non-specific, especially since the client has no discomfort on his current bike.

[anthonymaietta]

Hi Anthony,

I have enjoyed your thread and other communications from you to VS and elsewhere on the web. You seem to be one of the newer guys in the game that can make it long term (newer as compared to RS, DK, TK, etc...). How do you translate this order into a geometry? I expect that the numbers are on page 3, but the information on page 2 is pretty non-specific, especially since the client has no discomfort on his current bike.

John,

Thank you for the compliments and the question. I am truly grateful to have fallen blindly into the path that I have. The numerous serendipitous events that have brought me to where I am are documents in this thread's original post. Maietta Cycles is growing slowly and sustainably. Growing up last born in my home presented me with numerous opportunities to learn from other people's mistakes or disregard the "lessons" and learn them the hard way. In my framebuilding business I try to converse and learn from successful peers and take their advice when given, but invariably there are still a lot of hard knock lessons along the way. When the time does come to hang the proverbial shingle, I hope the leap of faith is small...not a blind freewall.

With regards to the fitting. Yes, absolutely, there are more pieces to the equation. I never meet a growing percentage of my clients, so I developed an Information and Fitting Packet to aid the process.

This is Page 3: Bicycle Information Sheet. This gets down into some pretty specific information about the new frame (this is from the same client in South Carolina).


This is Page 6: Body Measurements.


This is Page 7: Current Bicycle Measurements.


This client fell more in line with wanting a relationship with the builder and it has been more about the experience, rather than having a unique body requiring a custom frame. His contact points on the frame: bar, saddle and pedal were not changed significantly, but I did optimize the geometry of the frame for his desired 100% racing use. It can certainly be daunting to fit a client remotely, many times without even seeing a picture of them, but the double diamond frame has been around 100 years. While I am not claiming to be a fit expert, its not rocket science (I actually have taken those classes, so I know), but as I stated before there is plenty of information to learn from peers and I take full advantage.

Tony

[anthonymaietta]

At one point I tended to this tread with an embarassing amount of activity. Cliches happened (I got busy at my day job, I got busy at my shop, etc) and I left this for a while.

Please ask questions. I have a renewed sense of dedication to this thread, and would like to see it get a lot more activity.

About 6 weeks ago I realized that 2011 would mark the 5th year I have been a legit business entity with liability insurance, accepting money for bikes, etc. Back in early 2006 after a few years of welding tube samples in the back room of Hot Tubes I was getting my ducks in a row and comissioned John Langdon to create an ambigram of my last name as my company logo. As has been told ad nauseum I built Maietta #2 for his daughter in exchange for the logo; and at the time he actually provided me with 4 versions that were 95% complete. I choose the one I liked best and it has been my logo for the first 50+ Maietta frames:



John allowed me to keep the original sketches of the other 3 and I have kept them to myself. A few weeks ago I asked John to finish one of the other skeches to commemorate my 5th year in business. I have looked at my logo enough that the new one and the old one have similar design principals visible to me (not sure how obvious they are to the general public), but the new one has a distinct medieval feel to it:



I am very happy with it and the new ambigram will be on the down tube of a very special 5th Anniversary bicycle that will be in my booth at NAHBS in Austin. Additionally it will be an intregal part of a batch of 5th Anniversary frames I will be unveiling in the near future that will include some parts designed by Aaron Hayes and some new materials I am experimenting with.

[Craig Ryan]

Tony, you've been painting your own work for a long time now, so I'm sure you have opinions on how to handle a lot of the problem areas on a bicycle. I'd like to know what your philosophy is regarding drop-outs and paint accumulation. How do you guarantee a customer's frame will let wheels drop in and out easily while still having paint on the drop-out? This is an issue I've been working through, maybe you have some tips for me.
Craig

[anthonymaietta]

Tony, you've been painting your own work for a long time now, so I'm sure you have opinions on how to handle a lot of the problem areas on a bicycle. I'd like to know what your philosophy is regarding drop-outs and paint accumulation. How do you guarantee a customer's frame will let wheels drop in and out easily while still having paint on the drop-out? This is an issue I've been working through, maybe you have some tips for me.
Craig

Thanks for the question Craig. There certainly are a lot of problem area on a bike. I couldn't paint a car very well, and I venture to guess a lot (most) car painters couldn't paint a bike. Getting clear to wet out without drips OR orange peel takes a loooong time to get the hang of. The easiest solution I have for dropouts is just not to paint/clear them at all.

Here is an Easton carbon fork with the masking right on top of the carbon.


Here is a stainless steel track dropout with the bare steel masked (and some good ambient dust to ruin the pic):


Most geared bikes I build use conventional steel hooded dropouts. On these I mask a 7/8" diameter circle on the primer paint where skewer contacts the inside and outside of the dropout. This not only prevents the paint from chipping, but it also keeps paint from the inside of the skewer slot. The hooded dropouts from Nova have a very close tolerance on the slot and paint/clear will prevent the wheel from dropping in:


If you PM your address I'll send you some 7/8" circles to use on your frames. Good luck. Keep up the great work.

Tony

[steve garro]

Please ask questions. I have a renewed sense of dedication to this thread, and would like to see it get a lot more activity.

About 6 weeks ago I realized that 2011 would mark the 5th year I have been a legit business entity with liability insurance, accepting money for bikes, etc. it has been my logo for the first 50+ Maietta frames:
Additionally it will be an intregal part of a batch of 5th Anniversary frames I will be unveiling in the near future

So you sell 10 frames a year? - Garro.

[anthonymaietta]

So you sell 10 frames a year? - Garro.

On a 5 year average thats about right regarding output (at this point fortunately the orders arrive faster than the bikes leaving), but it was slower in the beginning. 2010 will see ~16 Maiettas head out the door. While my engineering job helps to keep food on the table and a roof over my head, it really puts a strangle hold my output in the shop. Working 50+ hours with 25-50% travel doesn't give me a lot of time to dedicate to the shop.

Did 50 frames in the first 5 years seem like a lot or a little in your opinion?

[steve garro]

Did 50 frames in the first 5 years seem like a lot or a little in your opinion?

TIG'ing? not that many, frankly - although as you say you have many pokers in the fire. A very good friend of mine with allot of practice says he will break 100 TIG frames in 2010 alone. My 1st year I actually did {and sold!} 40 frames but it was very, very stressful. I average between 25-30 fillet brazed frames a year now + maybe < 10 forks, 1/4 of frames are full builds, and I must have sent out at least 50+ wheels this year. Not much, but hey - I'm a cripple. - Garro.

[steve garro]

TIG'ing? not that many, frankly - although as you say you have many pokers in the fire. A very good friend of mine with allot of practice says he will break 100 TIG frames in 2010 alone. My 1st year I actually did {and sold!} 40 frames but it was very, very stressful. I average between 25-30 fillet brazed frames a year now + maybe < 10 forks, 1/4 of frames are full builds, and I must have sent out at least 50+ wheels this year. Not much, but hey - I'm a cripple. - Garro.

having said this earlier, I also must add that I would be qualified to have the "how not to be a framebuilder" seminar on dumb shit I have done but survived through long toil, but we'll talk about that over suds someday - Garro.

[anthonymaietta]

TIG'ing? not that many, frankly - although as you say you have many pokers in the fire. A very good friend of mine with allot of practice says he will break 100 TIG frames in 2010 alone. My 1st year I actually did {and sold!} 40 frames but it was very, very stressful. I average between 25-30 fillet brazed frames a year now + maybe < 10 forks, 1/4 of frames are full builds, and I must have sent out at least 50+ wheels this year. Not much, but hey - I'm a cripple. - Garro.

I think its safe to safe what you do, Steve, is an inspiration to all of us framebuilders. My dad and I have hiked a substantial portion of the Appalachian Trail and I often think about Bill Irwin hiking the entire 2200+ miles blind while I am out there. I'd be impressed if you were only making 2 bikes a year, and when I'm in my shop I do think about you and what you must face. Don't sell yourself short.

With my current process, equipment and skill I could see 100 frames as a realistic output. One thing that also slows my output is painting my own frames. At this point it takes me longer to paint a frame than it does to build one. Painting one frame at a time is not the most efficient way to do it with baking times and the sanding process. If/when I do this full time I'd like to build a couple frames, then paint them as a batch, then repeat.

Tony

[anthonymaietta]

we'll talk about that over suds someday - Garro.

Absolutely. You going to Austin?

Tony

[Jonathan]

One thing that also slows my output is painting my own frames. At this point it takes me longer to paint a frame than it does to build one. Painting one frame at a time is not the most efficient way to do it with baking times and the sanding process. If/when I do this full time I'd like to build a couple frames, then paint them as a batch, then repeat.

Tony

Tony,
This has been on my mind too.What stops you from not passing the painting to someone else? Buildng more frames is more opportunity to sell more complete bikes and cast your brand net wider. I do it because I enjoy going from start to finish, but I am always thinking I should pass it on.

JG

[steve garro]

Absolutely. You going to Austin?

Tony

naw, man - busy + family/life/stuff - maybe if there were two of me - I just dig too big of a hole for myself. like you said, it's surprising I get done what I do. if I do go again I may just walk the isles & infest all you's guys booths - Garro.

[edoz]

having said this earlier, I also must add that I would be qualified to have the "how not to be a framebuilder" seminar on dumb shit I have done but survived through long toil, but we'll talk about that over suds someday - Garro.

Funny, someone that I took a seminar from at NAHBS cited your business as an excellent example for new builders to strive towards. I can tell that you raced at one time, cause you sound like you're standing at the start line talking about how much you haven't been riding and how bad you feel right before you put the hammer down on everyone;)