40th Anniversary Steel Allez « Singletrack Forum
I never knew what more to say
40th Anniversary Steel Allez « Singletrack Forum
I never knew what more to say
Go to heaven twice, both of you knucklheads. This great stuff.
Agreed on all counts, you've done the craft a tremendous turn by pulling this off and THAT is exactly why we are here...too support, collaborate, appreciate and defend the knowledge.
I feel a goose bump coming on.
Peace, Josh
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tête
I think after all the dialogue I'd have to agree. There certainly are no negatives in all of this and I'm glad someone had the nous to actually pursue to the nth degree. As I said earlier I always believed that steel was capable of more but without the experience I wasn't sure I was actually right or where you'd even start.
One question, does the new tube set lend itself well to fillet brazing and TIG welding. ie. were the tubes 100% optimised for lugs or do the three methods benefit from the same development. I thinking grain, heat treatment, shape (flares, ovals, butts etc.)
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"Even my farts smell like steel!" - Diel
"Make something with your hands. Not with your money." - Dario
Sean Doyle
www.devlincc.com
https://www.instagram.com/devlincustomcycles/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139142779@N05/
That's kind of a hard question to answer. I did not consider tig or bronze welding when I designed the tubes wall thickness and butts. Hard to answer because when I walk the aisles at a NAHBS, for example, I see some bikes that should not be sold because of the way they are built. Some of those guys would use a tube that is too thin at the end and justify it by saying 'the bike won't be ridden long enough to break'. They may be correct in saying that, but I would not risk it. Some guys connect something to a thin part of the tube not knowing that in time the joint will fail by simply pulling a chunk out of the tube wall. That type of joint may work long enough to satisfy the customer but I wouldn't do it. These tubes may work for non lugged construction but I wouldn't until they had been tested. The other details in these tubes (butts) would benefit any type of construction. They are not that radical. Nothing on a design that is as old and well developed as steel frame tube is going to be radical. The seat tube has five different wall thickness, which may be a first, but I would not be at all surprised if it had been done before. These tubes were designed with these lugs to be used as a set.
It is just a matter of finding places to improve. The seat stays are allowed to be pretty thin because I added an internal re-enforcement as part of the seat stay cap, which adds strength to the joint. The brake bridge further strengthens to upper part of the seat stay assembly. I mount my stays to the side of the seat tube / top tube joint, as does Richard Sachs, J.P. Weigle and many others. It doesn't look "new" or different. I have made many types of joints in this area but I chose to use this method because the approximate neutral axis of the top tube and seat tube is there. The top tube has a nice big lap on the seat tube there which make that area nice and stable. The seat lug laps over that area to further improve it's stability. Then I, as does the above mentioned builders, make a cut in the lug to create a seat for the stay to rest in which makes for the thinnest braze joint. The more thin the braze the stronger it is. That strength made me think of making the brake bridge be designed the way it is in order to create a boxed upper part of the seat stay assembly to resist side loads. The seat stays have a long lever arm that makes it difficult to keep side to side stiffness. The stays get more thin below the brake bridge until they get near the dropout where they gain wall thickness for brazing. This is not rocket science, but I don't recall seeing a seat stay being butted in this way before.
Yesterday I met with a super nice old friend who turned me on to a really nice computer. It even has a refrigerator on the CPU. His company designs suspended and non-suspended bikes out of any material you would want. He also is responsible for these: Turn Cranks | Driven by Praxis Works
That is rocket science!
Mark Dinucci
Thank you. I learned so much from that simple explanation. No, not rocket science but does need some understanding to put it all together. Lots of little nuances that make a difference to the finished product.
__________________________________________
"Even my farts smell like steel!" - Diel
"Make something with your hands. Not with your money." - Dario
Sean Doyle
www.devlincc.com
https://www.instagram.com/devlincustomcycles/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139142779@N05/
Just thought I'd jump in here as I spent the afternoon with Tom and Keith from Reynolds today and it's pretty clear that an extraordinary amount of work went into this bike. I initially thought it was a very nice, well executed lugged bike but after chatting today I started to pick up on some of the many design features executed on this frame that I didn't pick up on when I first saw it. Top work Mark and all at Specialized and Reynolds who were involved.
Thanks Steven
I clicked on your link and looked around. You are obviously nice people. I looked at the vimeo stuff. Really impressive! That made your frame geos make complete sense to me. Good work. Do you guys agree on a shoe that works best for those conditions? I wouldn't want to be on those open moors during a bad storm! Beautiful.
Looks like you are taking the front brake mount seriously. Good on ya. Do you get those chain stays from RTL made to your design?
Yup, Keith and Tom got a bit of a workout from me. They may have had a few 'nicknames' for me at times. It took longer than we initially thought but, I knew it could be done as I had made sure the models were correct, and the process was possible. I have made lots of tubes over the years.
Really, thanks for your kind words and keep up the good work.
Bicycle Manufacture - Scotland, (still part of the) UK!
Mark Dinucci
Thanks Mark,
The trick there is to keep moving and keep moving fast!Do you guys agree on a shoe that works best for those conditions? I wouldn't want to be on those open moors during a bad storm! Beautiful.
NO, we'd really like to get RTL to make something and we're working on it but for the moment our chainstays are made by Deda.Looks like you are taking the front brake mount seriously. Good on ya. Do you get those chain stays from RTL made to your design?
Yeah, when I brought that bike up in conversation, Tom went a weird shade of green and had to leave the room for a few minutes! But seriously, I think they love stuff like that, they're already talking putting some of what they learned in that project to work in other projects. I think we all need work to do that pushes the boundaries.Yup, Keith and Tom got a bit of a workout from me. They may have had a few 'nicknames' for me at times. It took longer than we initially thought but, I knew it could be done as I had made sure the models were correct, and the process was possible. I have made lots of tubes over the years.
Yeah, we need to push ourselves. The idea is to not get bummed by not being able to do something really huge. Just remember that there will be no 'revolution' with any of the materials we use, only evolution.Originally Posted by shand
I went to the Oregon Bicycle Constructors Association show this last weekend. Bikes and beer and around 2,000 people in attendance. It has evolved quite nicely.
Check out this guy who is part Scott. He seems like a revolution but he got to where he is by evolving.
Last edited by e-RICHIE; 10-02-2014 at 09:37 PM.
Mark Dinucci
Someone with better skills than myself should capture these photos and put them here on the VS just because; Mark DiNucci handbuilt classics
Everyone should read the ad, especially the part about the tires :-)
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