Dornbox Bicycles

[anthonymaietta]

I swore I sold a dozen bikes that day. Seriously

Did you actually though?

[Dornbox]

Did you actually though?

Dud! (Did I spell that correctly?) Actually I'm working one deal right now with a local female racer because of her bike... but that was from a different ride. Don't be hatin' Tony, I'm not your competition. "SERIOUSLY"-Chris

[e-RICHIE]

Why would the tires rub? There's about .75 a cm on either side of the tire. I think my Poprad only has a hair more (granted it's a bigger tire) and that's a cross bike. I'd have to guess if there was going to be a flex issue, it would have show in the dirt. Besides people seem to like em outside of the V. My wife's bike has the same chain stays and people were chatting her up like crazy on the last century she rode. I swore I sold a dozen bikes that day. Seriously. -Chris

"just trying to help atmo..."

[Flux]

chris,

i really like your crow headbadge. totally bad ass.

also, i read that you will start racing. i'm sure that will be a big help in developing your product.

i'm looking forward to seeing you nail the fork thing down and refining your paint/look.

best of luck,
justin

[Dornbox]

"just trying to help atmo..."

ATMO- That's why I'm asking for clarification as to why you think it will rub. I only did it because AGIS did the same thing and I liked it... so I copied it. I get the focus on the basics part, I was just wondering if I was missing something larger with the tire rubbing....?-Chris

[anthonymaietta]

Dud! (Did I spell that correctly?) Actually I'm working one deal right now with a local female racer because of her bike... but that was from a different ride. Don't be hatin' Tony, I'm not your competition. "SERIOUSLY"-Chris

No hate.

I don't assign the serial number until the deposit is cashed.

[Dornbox]

chris,

i really like your crow headbadge. totally bad ass.

also, i read that you will start racing. i'm sure that will be a big help in developing your product.

i'm looking forward to seeing you nail the fork thing down and refining your paint/look.

best of luck,
justin

Thanks for the compliment Justin! The corvine head badge was inspired by the mass grackle population in Austin TX. I like to describe them as cunning ground birds that aren't afraid to fly... Like my bikes!

[shanerpvt]

I like the head badge also. Speaking of flying creatures in Austin, a Bat would make a great logo.............

[Dornbox]

I like the head badge also. Speaking of flying creatures in Austin, a Bat would make a great logo.............

NO DOUBT!!! If I was still living there... I'd probably go with a taco cart though. My knickname was "taco powered hotrod" when I was there. I'd eat em pre ride and would often keep one in the jersey for a mid ride boost! Chorizo and egg, mmmmmm good! Thanks!-Chris

[e-RICHIE]

ATMO- That's why I'm asking for clarification as to why you think it will rub. I only did it because AGIS did the same thing and I liked it... so I copied it. I get the focus on the basics part, I was just wondering if I was missing something larger with the tire rubbing....?-Chris

chris -
sometimes the only answer to the question why is because.

make what you use.
use what you know.
know what you use.
sell what you use.
and never look up to see what anyone else is doing.
no matter how wide the net is cast, all that matters is what you think.
if you ever second guess yourself, pause until you don't atmo.

there's no contest to see how much clearance is enough, and atmo i never bought that
rigidity stuff with the chainstays in that position. science be damned, huh. the bicycle
and the parts often have to work and function in worse case scenarios. i mean all this
in the most tactual way i can express it - learn how to make frames. once you have done
that, edit the process so that you can innovate where it's warranted.

[Dornbox]

chris -
sometimes the only answer to the question why is because.


there's no contest to see how much clearance is enough, and atmo i never bought that
rigidity stuff with the chainstays in that position. science be damned, huh. the bicycle
and the parts often have to work and function in worse case scenarios. i mean all this
in the most tactual way i can express it - learn how to make frames. once you have done
that, edit the process so that you can innovate where it's warranted.

Eloquent and perfectly stated. I really do appreciate all the advice and criticism from everyone and especially you. I just like to know why. I loved the military but there were a few soles ( I did I spell that correctly!) that took issue with my... inquisitiveness. Thanks!-Chris

[e-RICHIE]

Eloquent and perfectly stated. I really do appreciate all the advice and criticism from everyone and especially you. I just like to know why. I loved the military but there were a few soles ( I did I spell that correctly!) that took issue with my... inquisitiveness. Thanks!-Chris

darn spell check - i meant tactful not tactual atmo.
[X] asshat.

[Dornbox]

darn spell check - i meant tactful not tactual atmo.
[X] asshat.

I actually missed that, spell check has changed my life. When I scratch something on paper my vocabulary is cut by 50%.-Chris

[nahtnoj]

What was the process you went through to arrive at your frame pricing?

I asked Nic Crumpton a similar question, since his bikes are in many cases cheaper than top shelf mass produced carbon. He said its time, materials, and profit - doesn't really look at what others are charging.

[Dornbox]

What was the process you went through to arrive at your frame pricing?

I asked Nic Crumpton a similar question, since his bikes are in many cases cheaper than top shelf mass produced carbon. He said its time, materials, and profit - doesn't really look at what others are charging.

I read that one... I think you said he should be charging more? I had a couple friends in Austin who race on Team San Jose on his bikes. They're pretty awesome (the bikes and the riders). It's been really hard to value myself to be honest. When I first started thinking about it, I would have been more comfortable having paid someone a lot more to build me the exact frame that I build than what I felt comfortable charging someone else for it. As I'm gaining confidence, that's becoming a little less of an issue... but it's still is and probably always will be to some level.

Anyway, pricing, the one thing I had to come to terms with is that I was new and had no reputation. As everyone here knows bike materials aren't cheap and if you don't do your own paint that can be a big hit. I didn't want to price myself out of selling a frame but I didn't want to devalue my brand or the industry. So, first I figured out my cost. Then, I shopped around for comparable builders with a reputation but that weren't gods and came to what I consider a happy medium. I'm not planning on turning any real profit for at least another year and my overhead is close to nil minus my consumables and electricity. So why it's a little bit of a lax approach, it works. Currently I just focusing on getting my name out there. A couple times I've actually spent most or all of my profit just to upgrade the paint for a client so I could have a nice image or two. It's fun building a brand but I'll be glad once I start to get a little traction. For now it looks like I'll have a queue that will get me through the winter if I take my time, that's a nice feeling. Spring of 2012, that's when I'll have to revisit the business plan and get a little more serious. But I certainly won't complain if I can make a little beer money next season either. Thanks!-Chris

[steve garro]

Having built a few bikes I'll say this: 1st: your bikes look pretty nice, although I can't subjectively comment on anything I haven't seen assembled myself. 2nd: I know what it costs to make to a bike, and at $950.00 esp. with fancy paint you are either barely making any $$$ at all or loosing $$$. 3rd: I first showed @ NAHBS-San Jose after building over 100+ frames & I should have just went & looked at stuff {which i barely got to do} and shook hands & spent the $$$ on tooling or rent or beer for all the guys at the show. lots to learn there. missed all the seminars, all that. Like Carl's buisness one. Damn. Build bikes. Lots of bikes. it seriously took me more then 100 frames to get my "flavour" and "flow." just giving some advice, Rock On - Garro.

[Dornbox]

Having built a few bikes I'll say this: 1st: your bikes look pretty nice, although I can't subjectively comment on anything I haven't seen assembled myself. 2nd: I know what it costs to make to a bike, and at $950.00 esp. with fancy paint you are either barely making any $$$ at all or loosing $$$. 3rd: I first showed @ NAHBS-San Jose after building over 100+ frames & I should have just went & looked at stuff {which i barely got to do} and shook hands & spent the $$$ on tooling or rent or beer for all the guys at the show. lots to learn there. missed all the seminars, all that. Like Carl's buisness one. Damn. Build bikes. Lots of bikes. it seriously took me more then 100 frames to get my "flavour" and "flow." just giving some advice, Rock On - Garro.

Steve, Thanks for the compliments and taking the time to check out the website. The 950 price is as basic as it gets (single color, basic dropouts, etc) and while it's very little, there is some profit there but thats only because my overhead is nil (literally) . I've recently had one of the painters I use raise their prices a little. That combined with the fact that I'm starting to move into more expensive materials (fillet pro, 880T rod, etc) is starting to cut things a little too close. My plan is just to get more frames under my belt rather than turn a profit, "build bikes, lots of bikes". I am planning on displaying at Philly and I'm pretty psyched about it too. In hind site though, I do find myself wishing I purchased that new jig, bender, larger tanks, extra tube sets, beer for you, whatever, instead. I think it was the glamour of being part of the cool crowd. Anyway, the good news is that I do have a small queue that will allow me to keep moving and practicing. 100 frames seems like it's an eternity from now... sounds cools though! In terms of my own flavor, that's something I think about, a lot, but much like your experience growing, I think that's off in the far distance for me... but I'm working a microscopic amount in when I can. Thanks for the wisdom! Oh yeah, those frames your kick en out, serious flavor... and the arched TT 29ers, caliente!-Chris

[steve garro]

my overhead is nil (literally) .

you don't have rent, utilities, family, insurance, food costs, tubing, gasses, toilet paper, shop rags, strikers, flux, filler rod, cutting tools, oil, H2O bottle bolts, raw metal, dropouts, drawing paper, phone service, www costs, web page hosting, travel $$$, show booth $$$, plane tickets, gas for the car, shipping, paint, boxes, green scrubbies, acid brushes, music, ect...............it goes on & on. build a frame and write down everything you do/use while building it. there is no way you can price a unit until you have thought all these out. remember - an all robot work force uses fewer shop rags! I'm about to do one myself before 2011. the las one I did was a few yrs ago and a 4130/verus/paragon frame with a simple powdercoat was up around $700.00 COGS. - Garro.

[EnginCycles]

I am planning on displaying at Philly and I'm pretty psyched about it too. In hind site though, I do find myself wishing I purchased that new jig, bender, larger tanks, extra tube sets, beer for you, whatever, instead. I think it was the glamour of being part of the cool crowd. Anyway, the good news is that I do have a small queue that will allow me to keep moving and practicing. 100 frames seems like it's an eternity from now... sounds cools though! In terms of my own flavor, that's something I think about, a lot, but much like your experience growing, I think that's off in the far distance for me... but I'm working a microscopic amount in when I can.

I have a few questions. How many frames have you cut up? How many frames have you thrown in the garbage? How many frames have broken (trust me they will) and how have you dealt (going to deal) with it (meaning fix it or replace it)?

What is wrong with your current jig that you felt you wished you bought that new jig?

You obviously are very energetic and want to keep moving forward but have you really sat down and thought it all out? How long does it take you to build a bike? Not to compare but to give you an idea I can build a bike in 1 day. This includes bending the stays, welding it, doing the braze ons and all the finish work on the drop outs. Do I make 300 bikes a year? No way! That is because there is a ton of other stuff that is included. My price does not reflex a bike being made in one day, it is based on a dollar amount that is required to pay all the bills and put food on the table.

Last question is what do you consider being a full time professional? My opinion of a professional builder is someone that brings in income that puts food on the table and makes his living in the bicycle industry. There are excellent builders that fall under part time builder but I am curious what makes you claim full time professional? You claim you are not making money but that is OK because you are learning. Don't you think that falls under something other than full time professional?

I will end with don't take it as being harsh (you claim to have thick skin so this is testing it) and I am sure we will have a pleasant conversation in person in a few weeks time.

-Drew

[Dornbox]

you don't have rent, utilities, family, insurance, food costs, tubing, gasses, toilet paper, shop rags, strikers, flux, filler rod, cutting tools, oil, H2O bottle bolts, raw metal, dropouts, drawing paper, phone service, www costs, web page hosting, travel $$$, show booth $$$, plane tickets, gas for the car, shipping, paint, boxes, green scrubbies, acid brushes, music, ect...............it goes on & on. build a frame and write down everything you do/use while building it. there is no way you can price a unit until you have thought all these out. remember - an all robot work force uses fewer shop rags! I'm about to do one myself before 2011. the las one I did was a few yrs ago and a 4130/verus/paragon frame with a simple powdercoat was up around $700.00 COGS. - Garro.

So maybe the "literally" wasn't so literal or at least accurate. I was overlooking the small things that do add up or the things that I just associate as house cost's (internet, rent (my shop is on the property), phone, utilities, etc.). Perhaps I'm afraid to really dive into it but your point is well taken. I'll have to start figuring these things out now so I'll be ready later. I've been a little naive, perhaps intentionally, as I really do consider myself to be in a pure investment phase but with that said, my ultimate goal is to be a viable business. When calculating your cost, do you divide fixed monthly costs over an average amount or fixed number of frames you expect to build in a year? Thanks!- Chris