Ukraine

[72gmc]

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/10828...curity-council

Perhaps the UN also needs to stop pretending we are living in the Soviet era.

That’s a transcript of the Ukraine ambassador’s speech to the Security Council about the validity of Russia on the council given their declaration of war, for those who might be NPR-averse.

[bcm119]

.......

American institutions held the line, but barely last election, with 4 years to dismantle gov, I don't think we'd be so lucky in 2028.

It takes a long time to dismantle a gov, and 4 years luckily wasn't quite enough. Towards the end of his term, Trump signed an EO establishing "schedule F" of the civil service. It would allow the reclassification of high ranking fed employees in policy-making positions to a non-merit, unprotected status, meaning they could be replaced with unqualified, inexperienced Trump loyalists. All the pieces were in place-- stooges leading the regulatory agencies to select the positions to convert, stooges at OPM to approve them. Biden revoked the order on his 2nd day in office. Had Trump won, our gov would look very different by 2024. Few people seemed to grasp the weight of that near miss.

[j44ke]

Reuters and others are reporting that hackers are wiping computers in Ukraine and Latvia. Latvia makes sense as the next target as it shares a border with Belarus and is between Belarus and Kaliningrad. It would give Russia a corridor to the North Sea.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...wn-2022-02-23/

We just found out that one of our journalist friends, Askold Krushelnycky, is covering the war for the Times (London, not NY) and is in Luhansk near the Crimean border. His reports will be worthwhile if you can get through the paywall. He's a well-seasoned war correspondent, a Ukrainian, speaks fluent Russian and Ukrainian, and has lots of contacts in the country. All of which may also be a liability in the wrong place wrong time. Just hope he stays safe.

[jimcav]

here is hoping some anti-russian hacking occurs toot-sweet; and of course that your friend and all others there remain safe

[robin3mj]

Reuters and others are reporting that hackers are wiping computers in Ukraine and Latvia. Latvia makes sense as the next target as it shares a border with Belarus and is between Belarus and Kaliningrad. It would give Russia a corridor to the North Sea.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...wn-2022-02-23/

We just found out that one of our journalist friends, Askold Krushelnycky, is covering the war for the Times (London, not NY) and is in Luhansk near the Crimean border. His reports will be worthwhile if you can get through the paywall. He's a well-seasoned war correspondent, a Ukrainian, speaks fluent Russian and Ukrainian, and has lots of contacts in the country. All of which may also be a liability in the wrong place wrong time. Just hope he stays safe.

I also saw some photos from Lindsay Addario on the NYT site this week. Pretty sure she’s covered every major conflict in the last 20+ years and always gets the shots that capture the feeling on the ground.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Wouldn't the rest of NATO be obligated to defend Latvia?

Let’s hope WW 3 doesn’t start.

[fastupslowdown]

Putin's been planning this for months if not years. He just gave a firy speech and it's clear he has ambitions beyond Ukraine. Poland Romania. Moldova and the Baltics should be scared. Wondering if the conventional thinking that Putin shouldn't be engaged over Ukraine is wrong here

[fastupslowdown]

I was ambivalent up until recently. My dad was born in a Polish town that is now Ukraine. He and his family had horrible experiences from the local Ukrainian population. But I see now that today's generation is different. The two top leaders of Ukraine are Jewish and the people seem proud of their democracy and do not want to live under Russian rule.

[Peter Polack]

Putin's been planning this for months if not years. He just gave a firy speech and it's clear he has ambitions beyond Ukraine. Poland Romania. Moldova and the Baltics should be scared. Wondering if the conventional thinking that Putin shouldn't be engaged over Ukraine is wrong here

While Poland should be scared, so should Russia. Poland's a NATO ally and if Putin were to invade Poland it would be game on, and an ugly one at that.

[EBH]

While Poland should be scared, so should Russia. Poland's a NATO ally and if Putin were to invade Poland it would be game on, and an ugly one at that.

Romania and the 3 baltic states are NATO countries also, so if they are attacked WW3 is basically on. Russia will keep inside Ukraine. Even Russia don't stand much of a chance against the might of NATO.

[Rich Beaudoin]

It takes a long time to dismantle a gov, and 4 years luckily wasn't quite enough…

This is the fundamental problem of progress/development/having nice things: Building things of value takes much more time than destroying it/them and it requires relatively stable conditions.
It takes months to build a house and only hours for a fire to undo the effort.

[BBB]

Yeah, all roads lead back to Trump...some just can't help themselves here.

Indeed. It is easy sport calling out a complete moron.

[BBB]

Maybe:

(1). Have Interpol issue an arrest warrant for Putin. Invading another country without following the rules of international law should lead to charges being laid and a trial in the Hague (albeit Bush etc did in Iraq and in the circumstances, an arrest warrant could be a bit hypocritical).

(2). Sanction the people who rubber stamp Putin's decisions (ie the Duma representatives). They may be less likely to support Putin if it hurts them personally and be more likely to consider prevailing public opinion (which is unlikely to support a war of expansion).

Any other ideas?

[Tom]

My dad was from that part of the world. Was Poland, is Russia now. Russia invaded.. The family that was caring for him, his parents were dead,, were put on trucks. Uncle to gulag. Aunt to Kazakhstan. My dad got back from school in Vilnius when he arrived to find the town being bombed, headed west because he had a death warrant read out for him and survived as a conscripted laborer (slave) property of the German government.

This isn't that. Putin hasn't an alliance. But he's no idiot. He's softened up his opponents. In the old days you steamed your battleships up off their coasts and threw shells at them.

These days you get them fighting amongst themselves over elections or public health. Get them believing bullshit.

But, hell, we just had six inches of fucking snow and my doc closed the office a day ahead and numerous businesses local in these most perilous economic times closed to keep everyone safe... no wonder that asshole thinks he can just grab a neighboring sovereign country. We're just a bunch of overgrown babies over here.

I agree with my 89 year old mother in law (first female math major at University of Wisconsin). We're fucked and its our own doing.

[Corso]

Indeed. It is easy sport calling out a complete moron.

And yet, I don't see you talking about the current President - who can't seem to put together a cohesive sentence.

Yes, it's been too easy to defer and deflect to the easy target. Try staying current.

[jimcav]

Given that Putin is ordering soldiers with kill their neighbors with probable blood and certainly historical and religious ties, this war is almost implausible to me, except it is playing out live.

With what is at stake for Ukraine, and for Europe, I hope NATO does whatever aid and peacekeeping to the utmost, and as soon as possible. Missiles are slamming into urban apartment high-rises from the news feeds I see, with convoys of tanks rolling forward.

I don't really see the point of juvenile name-calling posts about Trump or Biden (or Bush or Reagan or whatever Ex-Pres or Ex-Premier etc)--nothing there is relevant to what is unfolding. Folks actually voicing support for Putin in this war, outside Russia and China, is beyond the pale to me.

President Biden may well be hampered by the current political reality here, but so far the coalition of nations seems to be growing or strengthening in its response. I hope we and our allies send as much aid as possible, military and other, and as soon as possible. Ukrainians are being killed on Putin's whim, and the various pretexts, threats, and disregard for tenets of the UN Charter, Geneva accords, and human life is obviously a real concern to Europe. I hope everyone follows Germany and sends military equipment. Didn't the US and NATO have exercises in the Baltic Sea in 2021? I only hope they once again get naval and air assets in that area soon.

[BBB]

Well...I was trying to stay reasonably current seeing it was only the other day that Comrade Trump praised Putin and suggested none of this nonsense would have happened if his Royal Incompetence was still sitting on the throne.

[vertical_doug]

Well...I was trying to stay reasonably current seeing it was only the other day that Comrade Trump praised Putin and suggested none of this nonsense would have happened if his Royal Incompetence was still sitting on the throne.

I think Trump is right in that Putin would not have invaded if he was president. According to Trump, this is because he told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if they did. I think the real reason is as an isolationist, and anti-Nato, Trump was more valuable to Russian goals than invading Ukraine.


Also, the reality of Ukraine joining Nato is driven by the Ukrainian people. In 2017, the Gov made it a priority to try to join Nato and EU. The process will take the better part of 20 years. In 2020, Ukraine changed their constitution to make it national priority. TO date, they have still have not complete a Membership Action Plan (MAP) which is a first step after 5 years.

As for Putin complaining about Nato Missiles being placed in Ukraine like and claiming the flight time to Moscow will be 7-10 minutes, this true, but the missiles in Poland are about 600 miles from Moscow. The closest in Ukraine will be about 329 Miles. But Putin is making threats to Finland and Sweden about joining Nato, and both of those country's borders are about the same distance to Moscow as Poland. (Sweden is actually farther. )

So the Nato/Missile thing is just a ruse and if you read Putin's essay on Ukraine from July 2021, you will see he frames this as Kiev being the home of ancient Rus.

The question is does Ukraine have a right to self-determination? According to Putin, the answer is no.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Putin’s genius move was letting Trump destroy NATO from within. Why would he have rocked that boat?

But the latest threats don’t seem like smart moves (at least imho); it seems unlikely that the West will take his accelerating threats without building alliances and military power.

Also: “Putin’s men in Moscow anxiously await his return as their sole hope for relief from rapidly accelerating Western sanctions—which will soon include the disconnection of Russia’s biggest banks from a global messaging system known as SWIFT.

During his Friday broadcast, amid tense discussions of Western sanctions, Soloviev theatrically looked down at his watch and asked: “Is Trump coming back soon?””

(From The Daily Beast https://www.thedailybeast.com/sanctioned-russian-tv-host-vladimir-soloviev-cries-about-losing-his-italian-villa).

[zachateseverything]

And yet, I don't see you talking about the current President - who can't seem to put together a cohesive sentence.

Yes, it's been too easy to defer and deflect to the easy target. Try staying current.

Biden has a well documented stutter but he's not exactly at the point yet where he's confusing passing a dementia test with acing an IQ exam.

This seems pretty cohesive to me. YMMV.