Keeping sharps sharp - a foray into knife-sharpening

[Gattonero]

This one was decent. A bit long, but, worth it. His sourdough videos are good too.

I've watched one minute only and I already love this guy's way to talk and show things :-)

[Gattonero]

I have this one: Amazon.com: Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone: 2-Sided Professional Grade Japanese Style Waterstone Blade Sharpener, 1 / 6 Grits, with Non-Slip Base, Angle Guide, Illustrated PDF Guide & Video Instructions: Kitchen & Dining

It seems to work for our needs (sound similar to your own).

There's a similar one in UK (similar price, too).

Now, yes, I too got hooked up on the wetstones. Before committing to a more expensive one I thought was better to use cheaper stones just to learn the right way.
So I got those, they're small but enough for my Sak's, and I can still do the kitchen knives.

Rough Rider Sharpening Stone Set | Heinnie Haynes
rr3000.jpg

Although I'm far from getting an easy and clean "paper-cut test", it's getting there and eventually I've learned a couple of things:

1. it's not difficult to learn how to keep the wrists locked and move the arms&shoulders
2. the above is the key to keep a constant angle when sharpening
3. some people said to keep the stones in water&dishwashing liquid. Didn't work for me, only cold water
4. those stones I'm using are small, so had to make a support out of hard foam, it makes a differerence!
5. light strokes on the stone did nothing, seems to me that a good amount of pressure is required
6. to "get the burr" on the medium stone I've to stroke the blade backwards only
7. while with the fine stone I start with good pressure backward strokes, followed by both directions strokes with lighter pressure

[mzilliox]

yeah, that french guy is really fun, i have been watching all of his stuff lately. he does the jacques pepin omelette for one.

I also have been surprised to find it takes more pressure than the experts on the videos say. ive been putting quite a lot of pressure on the trailing stroke. it took my 3rd session to be able to get a "feel" for the steel and the angle and such. Now my knives have that glossy thing going on the edge. sexy. and the cut test works pretty well when i try. My challenge now is how to keep an edge. its so good for the first 3-4 knife uses, then the razor edge gets lost. short of pulling out the 5k stone and honing, i guess one has to allow for dulling of the edge. my honing steel just doesnt seem to restore the razor edge well enough.

[MikeS]

As per TT's infinite wisdom: voila, a thread about knife sharpening.

What do you all use? How often? Hits and misses along the way?

Personally, my household keeps the knife game simple: 1 Shun Usuba, 1 Shun Duba, a New West Knifeworks Santoku and an Opinel paring knife. Minor redundancy but it's knife if you've got two people working.

For sharpening, we exclusively use Japanese waterstones. We have two, one of which is double-sided. The first is an ara-to (estimated around 750 grit), while the second is a double-sided naka-to (!4000 grit) and shiage-to (~10000 grit). Every 3 months all of the knives get the full treatment. It takes about 15 minutes per knife, so I tend to throw on a good podcast or at least make sure someone is around for entertaining company, as it's quite repetitive work..

In the past I've owned synthetic stones and an electric sharpener, and neither got the job done as well as waterstones. They're simple to use, hard to f* up and last ages. We've had ours for 3 years now (so, about 12 rounds of 4-5 knives...) and they're not even 10% worn.

For in between the proper sharpening sessions, we keep a honing steel around that's used probably once a week per knife.

My goto is a Moritaka Gyuto 270mm, and I maintain it with a JNS 1000/8000, (<1000, if there is any significant material to remove first)

[Gattonero]

What do you guys think about dual-side Arkansas stone?
I've a friend going to US in a few weeks and I may just pull the trigger on this, the brand seems one to be trusted

(40 bucks on Amazon)

[11.4]

What do you guys think about dual-side Arkansas stone?
I've a friend going to US in a few weeks and I may just pull the trigger on this, the brand seems one to be trusted

(40 bucks on Amazon)

In contrast to Japanese artificial stones, American Arkansas stones are cut right from the rock. The original source, with the best flint veins in the hills of Arkansas, was Norton, and they still have most of the best mines and the best stones. Unfortunately, they can be over $100 for a high quality stone, but it's like nothing else. Even theirs are not as good as they used to be -- I have some from four decades ago when they were very even in quality and literally translucent. Today they can have streaks of impurities and generally more contamination from other stone, so that they aren't quite the same stones.

Those comments apply to the hardest stones. The best were, and still are, specifically black hard Arkansas. Anything you see that isn't labeled as all three will be a softer, less hard, less fine alternative. It can still be a good stone but not that superfine stone for the perfect final edge.

The market is currently full of stones that are either composite Arkansas (similar to Japanese stones, made from ground-up Arkansas stone in a resin matrix) or poorer quality stone. I've had some that I could literally carve with a kitchen knife, others that would notch if you simply hit them at the wrong angle with a knife, and some that either lost their flatness quickly or were soft enough or coarse enough to not deserve the name. Recently I bought a collection of Preyda stones and found them useless. I'd almost say that if you want the real stone that justified the price, you'd have to pay the price -- an 8x2 stone, even only half an inch thick, should run north of $100. Smaller pocket knife stones (4x2 or equivalent size) should run around $70 or so. It should feel like glass that has been very lightly etched.

One step back from the black hard Arkansas is the white hard Arkansas. It should be a lot less expensive and should be good for most purposes. Just be sure it doesn't have weak veins in it because they will quickly notch. And it should still feel like frosted glass -- very flat, little or no texture, with a bit of abrasiveness.

For coarser stones, I'd go to composites or use silicon carbide paper on a glass plate. For more affordable finer stones, I'd go to ceramic. Overall, I'd look at Japanese stones if you don't mind the extra maintenance they need. Ceramic is a particularly good compromise because you don't need to use oil and you don't need to resurface ceramic regularly. I'm more in a state of using extra-fine 3M abrasive paper (actually a plastic sheet) with fine-micron abrasives, taped to a glass plate. Then I use a ceramic to finish off.

Specifically to answer your question, I'd hold out for Norton-brand hard black Arkansas or white Arkansas stones, don't get dual-sided stones because often lesser quality stone is used with only one good surface (the bad surface is glued to the inside). You can wear into them a couple millimeters and suddenly find a void or weak vein. For any other stone, there are plenty of options available internationally that are as good as what you're likely to find in a natural American stone.

[Gattonero]

Thanks for the help.
I am not familiar with Arkansas stones, surely the cheaper ones ought to be some hit and miss.

Eventually, I ended up with a cheapo "sharp pebble" as a starter: I can mess around and even damage it, and it will be only £35 lost. When my honing skills get better, I'll get a decent stone.
So far, that cheap one is working ok, I can get the "slice paper-thin a ripe tomato" on all my knives, and with some work I could get a blue steel Higonokami to shave my hair. Not bad for a total beginner.

I also got two ceramic rods, for the quick work, and made two stropping pads. Man, the latter made all the difference there, with the Herold black paste the edge comes up better than a generic "green oxide" paste. And since I got carried away, I got everything in a recycled box, plus I made a pouch for the small ceramic rod & stropping pad.

[Too Tall]

Thanks for the help.
I am not familiar with Arkansas stones, surely the cheaper ones ought to be some hit and miss.

Eventually, I ended up with a cheapo "sharp pebble" as a starter: I can mess around and even damage it, and it will be only £35 lost. When my honing skills get better, I'll get a decent stone.
So far, that cheap one is working ok, I can get the "slice paper-thin a ripe tomato" on all my knives, and with some work I could get a blue steel Higonokami to shave my hair. Not bad for a total beginner.

I also got two ceramic rods, for the quick work, and made two stropping pads. Man, the latter made all the difference there, with the Herold black paste the edge comes up better than a generic "green oxide" paste. And since I got carried away, I got everything in a recycled box, plus I made a pouch for the small ceramic rod & stropping pad.

You are out of control ;) Agreed, it took me many tries and a few different methods to settle down.

[Gattonero]

@josh: when I went to my parents in February and rummaging in the tool room (where a box full of spares for my Fiat 500 was unhearted, but this is another story) I found some 1" Obeche wood strips and scraps of 1" leather from the time when we had dogs. Couldn't leave'em there
The pouch was the excuse for a trial on some 1000D Cordura, I got to use that fabric to make a bespoke basket-bag for a colleague. Yes, I like sewing.

[mzilliox]

oh, thanks for the reminder, im overdue for a sharpening

[slwrnu]

if you buy knives from an artisan, they will usually offer to sharpen them for life on their wheel. The knives cost a lot to start but like many things if you invest well they end up costing you almost nothing. Such a pleasure to chop vegetables with a decent sharp knife. You have to be careful though.

[Too Tall]

@josh: when I went to my parents in February and rummaging in the tool room (where a box full of spares for my Fiat 500 was unhearted, but this is another story) I found some 1" Obeche wood strips and scraps of 1" leather from the time when we had dogs. Couldn't leave'em there
The pouch was the excuse for a trial on some 1000D Cordura, I got to use that fabric to make a bespoke basket-bag for a colleague. Yes, I like sewing.

Nice. HAHA I own two sewing machines....one works.

[dgaddis]

I picked up a Ken Onion edition Work Sharp last week. I liked the DMT diamond stone I got a while back, but it wore out pretty quickly. I've got a standard stone as well, and it works, it just takes so long. I was torn between this Work Sharp, the Lansky systems, and the KME systems. I ultimately ruled out the KME and Lansky for two reasons - they take a good bit of time, and they're not well suited for longer knives, like kitchen knives. So, I got the Work Sharp.

This thing is amazing. I'm sure if you're skilled with stones and have time you can get an even better edge...but this thing is fast and produces beautiful stupid sharp edges in just a few minutes. It's essentially a variable speed belt sander with adjustable angle guides. It comes with 5 belts - the coarsest of which you only need if reprofiling a really hard steel. I haven't used it at all, the next coarsest one removes material plenty quick in my experience. The finest belt is skinnier and made for use on serrated blades and gut hooks, I haven't used it yet either. But the three other belts - 4 passes on each side of the knife on all three belts gives you a mirror-like edge that cuts beautifully.

Because the belt flexes a bit the edge produced is convex, meaning it's a bit thicker immediately behind the leading edge, so in theory the edge is tougher.

Reading reviews there's two major complaints:
1 - grit on the guides will scratch your knives. This is true. I don't notice it on my kitchen knives (which have a brushed finish after many scrubbings with a scotchbrite pad to clean them), but I can see it on my pocketknife which has some fairly wimpy coating on it. I could care less...but if you have knives you don't want to get scratched, you'll have to spend some time taping the blade up to protect it.
2 - it'll round off the tip of the blade. Not true, if you follow the directions. You don't pull the blade all the way through, you stop it before the tip hits the centerline of the belt. All my knife tips are still pointy pointy.

I had this cheap knife that was in my wife's grandpa's toolbox we inherited. It was already dull, but I dulled it even more by banging the edge into the cast iron on my vise. It was DULL. I used it as my practice knife to get a feel for the sharpener. ~2mins later it was slicing paper effortlessly.

A few pics.

Chef knife. Any scratches are hidden in the brushed finish. You can see that the tip hasn't been rounded off at all.


Pocketknife with some scratches visible on the blade coating (which is notoriously not a tough coating). This pic was taken before I was finished going through all the belts, the edge is still a bit rough. You can also see where I let the thumb stud get into the belt a bit.


Finished edge on the pocket knife. Mirror-ish. There are some stropping belts available as well, but this is so good I doubt I'll bother with them.

[Peter Polack]

I wandered onto this thread because I have a pair of scissors that need sharpening.

Don't laugh; they're just basic Fiskars. Probably cheap enough to throw away and buy another. But that's not the point!

They're dulled from use, and I'm sure of it as I have another pair that pretty much sit in a toolbox which have a much better edge.

I've checked all the youtube videos etc., and none of the approaches work. I've used files, cutting with sandpaper, and a generic, two-sided Sears sharpening stone. Nothing's improved. I even tried the "sharpen using the bottom of a ceramic mug" technique, with barely a change.

I suspect it's because the blades are stainless; I'll guess Fiskars tries to make it difficult for the consumer to service the scissors so they'll replace them instead.

So my question is, without spending tons o' money, how can I sharpen scissors? Do I need a different sharpening stone? Should I buy scissors that will respond to my generic Sears stone? Are stainless scissors too hard for a sharpening stone? Should I use another method?

[Clyde]

Peter I went through a bunch of sharpening attempts with my Fiskars and the happiest day, a few years later, was replacing them. Sharpening knives with decent steel is one thing, those scissors are disposable in my opinion.

[Peter Polack]

Peter I went through a bunch of sharpening attempts with my Fiskars and the happiest day, a few years later, was replacing them. Sharpening knives with decent steel is one thing, those scissors are disposable in my opinion.

Don't tell me what I don't want to hear!

Anyway, after much surfing on techniques and tools, I decided to try a two-sided diamond sharpening tool. I'll report back on whether I wasted my money.

[Eric Estlund]

Eric Estlund on Instagram: “Shhhhck”

[Dancingbear]

I wandered onto this thread because I have a pair of scissors that need sharpening.

Don't laugh; they're just basic Fiskars. Probably cheap enough to throw away and buy another. But that's not the point!

They're dulled from use, and I'm sure of it as I have another pair that pretty much sit in a toolbox which have a much better edge.

I've checked all the youtube videos etc., and none of the approaches work. I've used files, cutting with sandpaper, and a generic, two-sided Sears sharpening stone. Nothing's improved. I even tried the "sharpen using the bottom of a ceramic mug" technique, with barely a change.

I suspect it's because the blades are stainless; I'll guess Fiskars tries to make it difficult for the consumer to service the scissors so they'll replace them instead.

So my question is, without spending tons o' money, how can I sharpen scissors? Do I need a different sharpening stone? Should I buy scissors that will respond to my generic Sears stone? Are stainless scissors too hard for a sharpening stone? Should I use another method?

My spouse is a seamstress, and uses a variety of scissors of various quality, some nice steel Wiss, and a few pairs of Fiskars. I've been sharpening her scissors for years with good success, but full disclosure- the technique I use isn't for the faint of heart. The tool of choice currently is a right angle die grinder with a 2" Roloc disc, maybe 150 grit. I secure one of the scissor blades in the bench vise with wooden pads, and take a couple of passes the length of the blade doing my best to maintain the right grind angle. Then repeat with the other blade. die grinder.jpg
This skill is one of the reasons she won't divorce me.

[Gattonero]

Eric Estlund on Instagram: “Shhhhck”

Nice work there!

[Eric Estlund]

Thanks- that little axe needed a fair bit of work, but it'll shave now.