44 Bikes

[fortyfour]

First Impressions up on the 44HQ blog. Simply put: This is one heck of a tire!

[fortyfour]

[thollandpe]

Are you sure it's the tire? Because that's one heck of a bike.

[fortyfour]

Are you sure it's the tire? Because that's one heck of a bike.

Thanks. The tires and the bike will be at the RMR. You going?

[j44ke]

I assume you can still do front derailleurs on the Huntsman in titanium if someone needed more of a 50/50 gravel/road set up with 2x gearing?

Asking for a friend.

[fortyfour]

I assume you can still do front derailleurs on the Huntsman in titanium if someone needed more of a 50/50 gravel/road set up with 2x gearing?

Asking for a friend.

So I get this question a lot. Simply stated: every clients needs are addressed in the first conversation as I listen to what it is that they want.

Every Huntsman out the door pretty much has room for 40mm tires and a front derailleur unless the client says otherwise. 40’s seem to be the all around best tire: Not too big, not too small. Best of large/small in one package. The present Huntsman most likely can take 50mm tires with room to spare. 45’s with good clearance for dirt/mud. Front derailleur stipulation, I just typically ask what the client will run for a max tire. Most of the builds with 40’s run 1x11 exclusively but that is the type of client I stereotypically talk to. 2x11 however is always an option that I am not opposed to. As an example, this recent build starts as a 1x11 with 37's but has the capacity to run a front derailleur:



Same with my personal Huntsman. This has room for a front derailleur with 35-40mm tires:

[j44ke]

Aha great. That was the question I was trying to ask but didn't have it sorted in my brain - width of tire versus front derailleur. Thanks. Very cool that you can get a 40mm tire and a front derailleur on the same bike. We rode around Hillsdale NY just making up the route as we went, and not a few times we were turned around by a gravel road where it was supposed to be paved. Which got the questions rolling about a gravel bike that wouldn't lose too much function as a road bike.

Coincidentally the two bikes above both got thumbs up.

[fortyfour]

<SNIP>

...a gravel bike that wouldn't lose too much function as a road bike.

Here's a few built to that specific requirement: All 2x11 with room for 40's but sporting front derailleurs on the way out the door.

Huntsman 2x11 Shimano 105 / Ultegra Mix:



Huntsman 2x11 Sram mix (Client had neck injury which required really upright positioning - hence component spec and geo):



Huntsman 2x11 Force 22:



Huntsman 2x11 Force 22 with Full Fenders:



Red seems to be a theme with front derailleurs? But that's a bunch of frame sets that went out as 2x11's if you go through all the albums. Some with fenders too. I will say though that Sram's front derailleur offers a bit more clearance between tire/lever arm. Shimano's newer lever arm of their front derailleur is a bit larger, so the throw needs to be heeded with tire size. Something to keep in mind with component choice. Apparently the previous Ultegra lever arm is a bit more slim/compact than the updated version but both work with current components. Di2 front derailleur... that's a problem with large volume tires and knobs. Sram eTap offers a bit more room. What I have noticed though is that for 2x set ups, most clients run max 35mm tires. That seems to be a really great combo for gravel and pavement. When bias is more on gravel/dirt, then riders seem to be opting for 1x11 and 40mm tires as initial set up. But I can build to whatever requirement the client requests (within reason). If there's any compromises that I feel will be a detriment, I'll pose my case to the client and offer up options for solutions.

[fortyfour]

[j44ke]

Thanks for posting the examples. She'd (my wife) steal this one off a bike rack in a second I think.



Anyway, hook is set. Just have to work on the landing.

[funcrusher]

kris - do you have any etap hydro builds in the queue? curious about the tire clearance with that fd battery...

thanks!

[fortyfour]

Thanks for posting the examples. She'd (my wife) steal this one off a bike rack in a second I think.



Anyway, hook is set. Just have to work on the landing.

You know where to reach me!

kris - do you have any etap hydro builds in the queue? curious about the tire clearance with that fd battery...

thanks!

I actually have an eTap that is next in line. I'll report in. Sram claims 20mm from center of frame to battery of FD. We'll see what kind of magic I can muster...

[fortyfour]

Few tweaks to be made post shakedown ride but I'm pleased...

[fortyfour]

Rubber changed.

[Britishbane]

Rubber changed.

Similar combos Kris, tell us about schwalbe vs wtb tires.

[joosttx]

I would too.

Chris, What are your thoughts on designing a Huntman with 650B wheels. Do you see any advantages or disadvantages to a 700c wheel.

Thanks for posting the examples. She'd (my wife) steal this one off a bike rack in a second I think.



Anyway, hook is set. Just have to work on the landing.

[fortyfour]

Similar combos Kris, tell us about schwalbe vs wtb tires.

I'm going to do a bit of a more in-depth write up on the blog shortly about the swap and tweaks along with more thinking behind all that went into this latest prototype. I'll share it here FYI. In the meantime, here's a bit of info from the previous blog post - read through or scroll down towards the bottom last two images and I speak a bit more about the two tires:

Marauder Build Check // 44HQ Blog

I would too.

Chris, What are your thoughts on designing a Huntman with 650B wheels. Do you see any advantages or disadvantages to a 700c wheel.

So this is all "opinion" but the below is my own informed opinion because I've put so much time into prototyping and the R&D of what I feel works out on the road or trail. But still, it's my opinion and food for thought:

Most of the advantages that I've witnessed with the 650b vs 700c stuff comes down to rider height, inseam, intended use and terrain. If the rider is tall enough, IMO: 700c with a 40mm tire is one heck of a combo. It physically has a longer circumference. Straighten that out flat on the ground and the math adds up quickly. You will cover more ground. 650b with a large volume tire has it's merits too.

I'm not sure I feel the same "wheel wind up / getting wheel up to speed" that others claim they feel, but a lot of how a bike performs has to do with geometry and setup especially when it comes to mixed terrain. If a bike feels unstable, it's because geometry is not appropriate for it's terrain. When a bike feels grounded and stable, it's because the geometry is well executed for it's intended purpose. Tires/wheels add to this equation and effect ride quality (stability, traction, comfort).

Handling though? I'm not so sure. Head tube angle, bottom bracket height or rather drop (depends what you want to look at) and chain stay length. Those 3 items when played and considered together determine how the bike will handle. Wheels, tires and tire pressure play with this as well, but those 3 geometry points really matter. I do not even know what the trail is on any of my bikes (i can look it up if someone asks) but this isn't a factor I weigh. Nor is wheelbase. Wheel base is a result of frame size and that is determined by stature or rider. Trail is a result of head angle and fork rake.

That's what I've found and for the rider the goal is and always will be: performance for their intended application.

Hope that helps!

[fortyfour]

More thoughts after a longer ride on the next iteration of the Marauder. Enjoy.

[dgaddis]

That's a good read Kris.

Question on tires :: do you have much experience with Maxxis? I've used WTBs in the past (it has been quite a few years though, back before they had the 'tough/fast rolling' type models/descriptions), but for my terrain (rocks aren't a big concern) they tended to be a bit overbuilt, so just curious what your experience has been. I'm currently using the Maxxis Ikon / Ardent combo with the EXO sidewalls on both, tho I have used the non-EXO versions of each with *mostly* great results. The only issue I ever had was a sidewall cut at a non-local race with a 5 mile long rock garden at the end that's known for destroying bikes. Even then, I got a few more rides on the tire before the cut finally really let loose.

[fortyfour]

That's a good read Kris.

Question on tires :: do you have much experience with Maxxis? I've used WTBs in the past (it has been quite a few years though, back before they had the 'tough/fast rolling' type models/descriptions), but for my terrain (rocks aren't a big concern) they tended to be a bit overbuilt, so just curious what your experience has been. I'm currently using the Maxxis Ikon / Ardent combo with the EXO sidewalls on both, tho I have used the non-EXO versions of each with *mostly* great results. The only issue I ever had was a sidewall cut at a non-local race with a 5 mile long rock garden at the end that's known for destroying bikes. Even then, I got a few more rides on the tire before the cut finally really let loose.

Hey Dustin! So you know, those "few years ago" have really since then. They've really done a superb job with their new offerings. I've run that combo you mention from Maxxis last summer:



I'd say for dry, dusty hardback and loamy soft situations this combo was great. However, if the trail had excess of rock and it had been raining so it was a bit slick, they were terrible. Literally death defying. Something about the knob configuration and/or compound just didn't hook up so well. That was a rarity however mind you.

Hearing what you're riding though, they sound like an ideal match. I would say with that in mind, I'd really give the WTB Riddler 2.25 TCS Light/Fast a try. That sucker is SO fast. Grip is exceptional even in wet conditions. Side knobs really hug the ground when you're hammering hard turns too. They shed mud well. But they are fast.



I'd probably suggest this mated with say a Trailboss 2.25 or 2.4 up front. That's a great all around tire front or rear.