Frame builder boom

[Dave]

that should be the last word on this atmo.

Yet...it's not! :D

[Andy A]

if i'm buying a bike... its about other things. this started at my first bike... my candy red schwinn stingray...
and its been that way ever since.
the anti establishment and the establishment are an old married couple. the boutique market is booming because the mass produced market gives it a reason to be.

how can i favorite this?

[Bike Rider]

...This is not unique to framebuilding.

I suspect this topic is the talk of town in custom chopper circles. There, safety really is an issue.

[swoop]

how can i favorite this?

tattoo on the small of your back?

imagine being a talented architect in a world full of what passes as architecture. its just not easy to be anyone these days.

[sbc]

To the OP, I have a bike on order from some guy in Minneapolis that no one in my family has ever heard of. Now, I hear, he's thinking of moving his shop to another state. I am starting to worry.

For those who are jangling on about economics and supply and demand . . . be very careful. The whole of the 1980s was spent re-writing what the profession thought it new about markets, particularly when there is either incomplete or imperfect information (largely in response to the question: sure it works in practice, but does it work in theory?). If all you had was up to Econ 301, tread lightly.

[gt6267a]

Doesn’t every interest have some people searching for the esoteric while others pursue big box? Is that about the big box making a crap product or about something else, about some people liking non-mainstream items. Watches, bikes, cars, dbags … as the market grows so grows the number of people interested in the esoteric. New handmade builders are just filling a void in society. I don’t think it’s a reaction to the big box bikes at all. It’s a numbers game.

Some people want a Rolex others an IWC. Some buy a corvette and others a lotus elise. Some buy a krups and others a technivorm coffee machine. Some like the big box others not, but notice anything here? The prices are about the same in each category. In general, its not about the bike, the watch, or the car.

[Curt Goodrich]

hey you.. i wasn't admonishing you... i love you, man. i was feeling your pain! its the head down as self-preservation!

Thanks man. I didn't mean for it to read like you were admonishing me. I took it as good advice. Thanks.

[davids]

I really like my Specialized mountain bike. A lot. Maybe I could have duplicated its performance on a Santa Cruz for $1500 more. Or on a boutique custom builder's frame for an even bigger premium. But I wasn't interested. I don't have the same emotional investment in mountain bikes that I've got in road bikes.

I've got no interest whatsoever in Specialized road bikes. But that's me. I know some really super folks who like theirs plenty.

I'm really glad that Specialized exists and is able to deliver a high-quality, high-value product.

Dunkin Donuts, on the other hand, sucks.

[e-RICHIE]

its not about the bike, the watch, or the car.

like dbrk said atmo.

[Andy A]

Living that dream, everysingleday.

imagine being a talented architect in a world full of what passes as architecture. its just not easy to be anyone these days.

[Chris]

Six pages of this and the not a mention of the frn anywhere... Thank God!

[captstash]

he may get it but i dont think he has any business getting involved in someone elses transaction. he doesnt own it anymore.

something is worth what someone will pay for it..
maybe the guy wants an early vanilla for some reason. maybe he rode it, maybe he likes the style.

thats my opinion.
its worth what someone is willing to pay or overpay- not yours or his to judge.

I think what Sacha was concerned about was the perception that the bike for sale was representative of his work. He makes it pretty clear that that particular frame was not in any way representative of a modern Vanilla. I would be concerned if I were him too and I applaud his honesty in publicizing that.

To put it bluntly, IMHO, at this moment in the bike industry, building bikes domestically that are both better and cheaper, by a significant margin than the overwhelming flood of Asian bikes, and selling them without the use of acronyms and lies is the course of action that will begin to terrify the big guys. And that's what gets me personally out of bed every day, the desire to physically do harm to, pester and annoy corporations that I feel do psychic damage to the consumers and contribute to the economic and social destruction of the country... I try to make a dent in the industry that I know, with the tools I have. We need to re-define and simplify our relationships, both as consumers and an industry, and stick a pin in the hot-air ballon that props up all the bullshit.

Business is war?


CaptStash....

PS: I really like the looks of that Skeletor frame.

[e-RICHIE]

just a question born out my inability to read through all the angst atmo -

And that's what gets me personally out of bed every day, the desire to physically do harm to, pester and annoy corporations that I feel do psychic damage...

so, you wanna do to them what they are doing to us?

...to the consumers and contribute to the economic and social destruction of the country...

but these are bicycles, for god's sakes. folks are buying and riding bicycles
atmo. if big corpo is as good at their task as you say, folks are riding bicycles.
we (framebuilders) can't fill that demographic void.

[swoop]

the vanilla part of this thread makes me think of the first few women i *ahem* became a man with... and how i really wish i could go back through time and apologize to them before hand for the lack of skill with the torch for all the good intentions.
i mean, i was good with the torch but i wasn't the maestro that i am now. oh just never mind. bad metaphor.

the fucking past.. at least mine doesn't show up on ebay or frame forum. all i have to live down are old drivers license photos and the fact that i wore a vest with no shirt and ripped jeans in the late 80's.

i like that the guys that are making bikes now aren't all the same guy. you know what i mean?

[e-RICHIE]

i like that the guys that are making bikes now aren't all the same guy. you know what i mean?

no one is doing the same dance they did then.
that part should never have needed to be articulated.
if we stayed 'there', we'd have never left.
and were that the case, there'd be no one to answer these questions atmo.
that cat should sell the frame for as much as he can get and the buyer can
live with the joy of knowing he has something rare and truly part of the left
side of the timeline.

[M_A_Martin]

I think what Sacha was concerned about was the perception that the bike for sale was representative of his work. He makes it pretty clear that that particular frame was not in any way representative of a modern Vanilla. I would be concerned if I were him too and I applaud his honesty in publicizing that.

While we don't really know what Sacha was concerned about, I agree with Stevep.

It might be frustrating if an old frame goes for as much as a new frame, especially if a builder knows he knows more now than he did when he built the old frame which is representative of his early work...but it seems to me that younger builders can learn a lot from Richard Sach's approach to his older frames that come up for sale. The man has style and grace when talking about his early work.

[Shinomaster]

the vanilla part of this thread makes me think of the first few women i *ahem* became a man with... and how i really wish i could go back through time and apologize to them before hand for the lack of skill with the torch for all the good intentions.
i mean, i was good with the torch but i wasn't the maestro that i am now. oh just never mind. bad metaphor.

the fucking past.. at least mine doesn't show up on ebay or frame forum. all i have to live down are old drivers license photos and the fact that i wore a vest with no shirt and ripped jeans in the late 80's.

i like that the guys that are making bikes now aren't all the same guy. you know what i mean?

Exactly... The first girl I "knew" wasn't impressed either. Unfortunately my bad pots from college are reminders of how bad I was. I only see them when I go home to Boston. I'm going to drive them over to SteveP's house and leave them in his yard.

[gt6267a]

Exactly... The first girl I "knew" wasn't impressed either. Unfortunately my bad pots from college are reminders of how bad I was. I only see them when I go home to Boston. I'm going to drive them over to SteveP's house and leave them in his yard.

i suspect your mom would plotz. parents hang on to the paperweights ... i've gone so far as to knock high school artifacts off desks in hopes of them finding the circular file ... no dice she still keeps the crap. if you want to continue getting culinary advice, i recommend leaving the relics alone.

[swoop]

no one is doing the same dance they did then.
that part should never have needed to be articulated.
if we stayed 'there', we'd have never left.
and were that the case, there'd be no one to answer these questions atmo.
that cat should sell the frame for as much as he can get and the buyer can
live with the joy of knowing he has something rare and truly part of the left
side of the timeline.

that.. wwhat you said here... feels right from my chair on the sidelines.

[captstash]

fuck you. dunkin donuts is cheap, clean and you can take your family there.

jerk

YEah but the coffee sucks!