And somehow we still call it a democracy

[fastupslowdown]

All roads will lead through Ginni which has always been the issue.

I'm not really old enough to remember this, but

In 1966, Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas took a secret retainer from the family foundation of Wall Street financier Louis Wolfson, a friend and former client subsequently imprisoned for securities violations. The deal provided that in return for unspecified advice, Fortas was to receive $20,000 a year for life.

Disclosure of the retainer effectively ended Fortas’ judicial career. He resigned. I think politics has changed somewhat and I don't see Conservatives saying Thomas needs to go.

[j44ke]

All roads will lead through Ginni which has always been the issue.

Possibly the same way all Russian oligarch money went through the NRA. What ever happened to that investigation? Did it die with the bankruptcy of the NRA? BTW Wayne Lapierre is still CEO of the NRA. The man with the bullet proof house.

[BBB]

Whether there is corruption or not, it is the perception that is the problem.

Judges have to be seen to be above the fray. Accepting what amounts to gifts (luxury private travel) raises issues about what, if any, quid pro quo was expected, not to mention who he mixed with and what was discussed. This puts the judge in question, not above the fray, but well and truly into the mire.

His conduct in turn reflects on the institution and this would prompt most people to politely exit stage right (or at least prompt the Chief Justice to suggest they take their bat and ball and go home). However, what is right or what is the norm does not seem to remotely enter into the equation in the post-truth era, and most certainly not from the conservative side of the fence.

[Mark Walberg]

Unless something has changed recently, those 158 families get one vote per person. Just like you or me. "1%" can't outvote 99%.

But, they're working on that.

[COVRTDESIGN]

If anyone here thinks that the US will be anywhere near what it is now, in 200 years, you are sorely mistaken. This country will not last as one nation. Rome should have taught everyone that.

[Mabouya]

If anyone here thinks that the US will be anywhere near what it is now, in 200 years, you are sorely mistaken. This country will not last as one nation. Rome should have taught everyone that.

200 years is long enough that I'll go out on a limb and predict that a potential breakup of the US will be not even be in the top 10 of the most significant changes between 2023 and 2223.

[COVRTDESIGN]

200 years is long enough that I'll go out on a limb and predict that a potential breakup of the US will be not even be in the top 10 of the most significant changes between 2023 and 2223.

I would probably go out on the same limb!

[jclay]

I would probably go out on the same limb!

I would go out on a very much shorter temporal limb.

Maybe being a non-student until a bit later in life saved me from inculcating the sanitized, overly optimistic view of USA history and the unspoken but organic cultural notion that the USA is immune from destruction; our system has everything handled!

I still think I'll be dead before things come pretty completely off the rails but where my view was 95 to 5 (in my favor) in 2015, I'm not sure what odds I'd lay this morning but they're a lot closer to 50/50. Beating Trump and his lackeys solves nothing; it's tantamount to avoiding a torpedo in a very adversary rich, very dynamic environment. Lasting as a going democracy for even another 100 years seems a stretch to me; that'd be incredibly tough without the environmental challenges we face; with them, I just don't see how. Everything, absolutely every facet of modern civilization will be affected, challenged and if humanity is to survive, changed. Meantime, large demographic swathes in the USA are still pining away for a return to our (obviously) God given and sanctioned frontier mentality.

Not highbrow articles but to my eyes very much like the rumbling heard by US infantry near Bastogne in the winter of 1944.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sacr-far-right

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/polit...nes/index.html

[Bob Ross]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/polit...nes/index.html

Wow, that CNN article is excellent...and frightening. Thanks for posting it.

And thanks for re-engaging in this thread. I'd lately been lamenting the lack of political content in V-Salon's OT section over the past few years. It's always been one of the only websites I frequent where politics get discussed with calm, level-headed rationality and respectful disagreements, rather than the free-for-all donnybrook of most other forums' attempts.

[jclay]

Wow, that CNN article is excellent...and frightening. Thanks for posting it.

And thanks for re-engaging in this thread. I'd lately been lamenting the lack of political content in V-Salon's OT section over the past few years. It's always been one of the only websites I frequent where politics get discussed with calm, level-headed rationality and respectful disagreements, rather than the free-for-all donnybrook of most other forums' attempts.

Thanks.

I found this a little later; it's the tip of one iceberg....and there are a lot of others like it floating around, and they're convinced they they're justified. There seems to be an uptick in revolting bumper stickers around here lately. The dismally hysterical truth is that the politicians who try to advance policy that would help the disenfranchised white folks are the ones they dismiss as "commies" or "socialists"; the feds didn't offshore their jobs, neoliberal macro economics did: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...ance-102427097

[BBB]

Maybe it boils down to this: what happens if Trump gets found guilty in one of the four criminal cases he has managed to find himself entangled in ('witch hunt', 'weaponisation of the justice department'* etc etc) and is thrown in jail and he's the Republican candidate? Surely the place burns at that point (sorry!).

Hitler was right:

"All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods."

Despite the fact that 6235 courts** rejected court cases alleging electoral fraud and no one has actually managed to, you know, come up with any evidence (much less credible evidence), a substantive portion of people believe this 'steal' notion. Unfortunately it is going to get worse, before it gets better.

As an aside, if Trump does get jailed, does he lose his secret service detail at that point?


* even though not all cases are federal cases.

** a slight exaggeration, but it was a lot of cases. 50 plus maybe?

[COVRTDESIGN]

I'm not really old enough to remember this, but

In 1966, Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas took a secret retainer from the family foundation of Wall Street financier Louis Wolfson, a friend and former client subsequently imprisoned for securities violations. The deal provided that in return for unspecified advice, Fortas was to receive $20,000 a year for life.

Disclosure of the retainer effectively ended Fortas’ judicial career. He resigned. I think politics has changed somewhat and I don't see Conservatives saying Thomas needs to go.

Yes, but this also back when some integrity was around. Even in the 2000's Howard Dean excitedly yelled for one second, and that ruined his career.

There is no shame in politicians anymore, especially Republicans, and not even 4 separate indictments will cause them to cancel campaigns. It is a scary time in our world of politics, and I don't see anything that can be done in the short term to turn it around.

[COVRTDESIGN]

As an aside, if Trump does get jailed, does he lose his secret service detail at that point?


* even though not all cases are federal cases.

** a slight exaggeration, but it was a lot of cases. 50 plus maybe?

No. He retains secret service detail for the rest of his life. SS would have to go and literally sit in jail with him.

[BBB]

No. He retains secret service detail for the rest of his life. SS would have to go and literally sit in jail with him.

I'd be asking for a pay rise in that case...

[vertical_doug]

I don't think there is anything new here since George Orwell wrote 1984.

[jclay]

^^There's one important personal difference here! Pull up a comfy chair, light up up the formidable stereo in my shop and worldly dissonance disappears. Any volume required, any time needed, and if afterburners are required to make it happen? Pick up the sticks, put on the cans and blast off. I always feel better after the trip.