The Vaccine Thread

[Mabouya]

In that case, I guess it all depends.

My data is from when I get flu shots at work (an office environment) from "rent-a-nurses" who come in and do long shifts in a conference room. Maybe they wouldn't be able to take it, standing and bending all day, so they sit.

I was just wondering if the SOP for giving shots had changed.

[Clyde]

Yeah! Just made an appt for thurs 0945 to get mine hallelujah one less thing to worry about in the ED. Gown up gown down all day long and breathing through an N95 great fun.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Jesus dude, they are in a mostly empty stadium, surrounded family or other players' families they know. I think if the people around them were terrified of the "terrorists" they wouldn't be snapping pics with their phones. I'm sure they wore masks when they went to their seats. Fucking Fauci went maskless at the Nationals game after he threw out that sad, sad first pitch.

If you know someone, the virus doesn't spread? Thanks for that valuable information.

BTW, Dr. Fauci had his mask down for a few minutes as he was sipping from a water bottle.

[Clyde]

With regards to mask/no mask; my only comment is dumbshits die dumbshit death. In any number of forms. I'm not sure they are impinging on my freedom, or making it worse for anyone other than themselves. I could make a great video covering drinking/drugs/self-care deficit that would change a lot of people's actions (maybe) but HIPPA and privacy laws forbid it. Nothing beats a crazy meth head who has to be restrained who just killed a family in an mva. If middle-schoolers could see a graphic video of all parts of this type of event it might scare them straight, to steal a 70's term. If people could see someone struggling to breathe on a non-rebreather @ 15L of o2 then being intubated related to covid complications = same thing.

[Marvinlungwitz]

^^^ It's not about catching it yourself, it's about keeping transmission low in the population so those who are susceptible to serious disease and death aren't infected.

Young and healthy people aren't at significant risk of a bad outcome, and that's part of the reason they don't take it seriously. They need to understand shared responsibility and the public health ramifications of their behavior.

[Christian Fox]

If you know someone, the virus doesn't spread? Thanks for that valuable information.

BTW, Dr. Fauci had his mask down for a few minutes as he was sipping from a water bottle.

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, "know someone", as in know them well enough to have a general sense if they are a big covid risk. There are people in my life that I know well enough to feel I am safe to be around them without a mask.

Also, you can't spread covid without a mask in the span of a few minutes while sipping water? Thank YOU for that valuable information.

[davids]

With regards to mask/no mask; my only comment is dumbshits die dumbshit death. In any number of forms. I'm not sure they are impinging on my freedom, or making it worse for anyone other than themselves. I could make a great video covering drinking/drugs/self-care deficit that would change a lot of people's actions (maybe) but HIPPA and privacy laws forbid it. Nothing beats a crazy meth head who has to be restrained who just killed a family in an mva. If middle-schoolers could see a graphic video of all parts of this type of event it might scare them straight, to steal a 70's term. If people could see someone struggling to breathe on a non-rebreather @ 15L of o2 then being intubated related to covid complications = same thing.

This makes absolutely no sense. There is a bit of a difference between the mechanics of spread for meth addiction vs. COVID infection.

The dumbshits spread to the dumbshits next to them who take it home to their kids who go to school. They take it out to the CVS or grocery store. Teachers take it home, clerks spread it to every other customer.

And so on and so on. They are spreading a highly contagious potentially fatal disease.

So yeah. They die dumbshit deaths. What about the people two or three leaps down the chain? Are they, too, dumbshits?

[davids]

This article is from March 14: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ona-simulator/

Nothing in its conclusions have changed. Nothing.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, "know someone", as in know them well enough to have a general sense if they are a big covid risk. There are people in my life that I know well enough to feel I am safe to be around them without a mask.

Also, you can't spread covid without a mask in the span of a few minutes while sipping water? Thank YOU for that valuable information.

15 minutes of cumulative exposure is considered the significant threshold.

And while those near him may have been exposed to him (maskless) for 15 minutes, that was exactly 2 people, one of whom was his wife, as I am sure you recall from the photos.

[Christian Fox]

15 minutes of cumulative exposure is considered the significant threshold.

And while those near him may have been exposed to him (maskless) for 15 minutes, that was exactly 2 people, one of whom was his wife, as I am sure you recall from the photos.

Sure thing. And you had eyes on football mom for the whole game? Look, the point is I don't give a fuck about either of them not wearing masks. Indoor, poorly ventilated spaces are your big transmission areas. I wear my mask, but I don't get wadded up about what other people do, especially outdoors. Self righteousness isn't my thing.

[jimcav]

I find it somewhat frustrating that over 300k deaths into this, there are still any defenses posited for NOT wearing a mask. A mask by definition is not a respirator, and so it doesn't offer complete protection, but the data are clear on the use of masks versus not using masks for reducing transmission. There is so much virus now circulating that it is now much easier to catch it, and that cumulative 15 minutes over 8 hours of exposure is a true concern.

My county had a lot of ICU beds, yet we still went steadily toward the state 15% available and then from 15% beds available to under 3% in about a week. That happens because people are still roaming around breathing out virus for others to breath in.
It is inexplicable to me how with CGI etc they can't create better PSA on wearing masks AND keeping distance. Wearing a mask doesn't mean it is okay to sit next to someone, or stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

The DOSE (amount) of virus you are exposed to matters. A mask helps limit what escapes from you to others, more than it protects what you breath in. I've seen so many respiratory-fit-tests in the navy it isn't funny, and seeing the "smoke" they used for fit testing drives it home: it follows the path of least resistance and goes into the person around the RESPIRATOR edges if the fit isn't perfect, and with a mask it isn't even close to a respirator seal. You might as well be surprised that placing a 3-ft high wall of sand bags around 2/3 of your house didn't stop 2-ft high floodwater from reaching your house. Of course, there aren't enough N95 to go around, let alone ensure proper fit--meaning most of us we are all at some risk. That risk isn't likely personal for most of us, we will be the asymptomatic, the mildly ill, maybe even a few of us will deal with some lingering "long haul "issues, but we are part of the chain of transmission that has put 300,000 americans in the ground--on the way to half a million. Is that number just so big people just have to sigh and say "oh well, I miss seeing my team, my bar stool, my dance floor, etc"? It is bad enough how many people HAVE to be in public, interacting, without giving the virus more avenues to spread.

Which is not to say give up, it screams to me now more than ever WE all need to do WHAT YOU CAN to break transmission. Please WEAR a mask, and stay AWAY from people as much as possible, even with a mask.

[Too Tall]

What Jim said.

[zachateseverything]

With regards to mask/no mask; my only comment is dumbshits die dumbshit death. In any number of forms. I'm not sure they are impinging on my freedom, or making it worse for anyone other than themselves. I could make a great video covering drinking/drugs/self-care deficit that would change a lot of people's actions (maybe) but HIPPA and privacy laws forbid it. Nothing beats a crazy meth head who has to be restrained who just killed a family in an mva. If middle-schoolers could see a graphic video of all parts of this type of event it might scare them straight, to steal a 70's term. If people could see someone struggling to breathe on a non-rebreather @ 15L of o2 then being intubated related to covid complications = same thing.

By not wearing masks they're increasing community spread which places a larger burden on the healthcare system. This isn't like choosing to not wear a seatbelt or to go without a helmet while riding a motorcycle. In those cases the decision to not participate in a simple safety measure really only impacts their quality of life. This is more like drunk or distracted driving where someone's poor decision making can have a profound impact on those around them.

[Clyde]

[QUOTE=davids;1031186]This makes absolutely no sense.]
An endless argument. Wearing a mask protects you, and invariably others as well. If you choose to wear a mask and limit your exposure to others, especially if you are in a high risk group, then you are doing all you can. People who engage in risky behavior are endangering themselves for sure. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from my little ditty, and when you're side-by-side with me working in the trenches we'll have a different conversation. In the meantime, there are plenty of guidelines published about who in the population are at risk and how they can minimize that risk. The story about the movie is a pipe dream for me, as another way of making a difference in preventable death.

[jimcav]

[QUOTE=Clyde;1031216]

This makes absolutely no sense.]
An endless argument. Wearing a mask protects you, and invariably others as well. If you choose to wear a mask and limit your exposure to others, especially if you are in a high risk group, then you are doing all you can. People who engage in risky behavior are endangering themselves for sure. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from my little ditty, and when you're side-by-side with me working in the trenches we'll have a different conversation. In the meantime, there are plenty of guidelines published about who in the population are at risk and how they can minimize that risk. The story about the movie is a pipe dream for me, as another way of making a difference in preventable death.

If you are in the frontline healthcare setting battling this, then thank you for being there, and I would add if you are there, I admire your restraint in calling out dumb-shites. Of course, as pointed out, there is no way to keep the impact of dumb-shites' behavior limited only to the dumb-shites themselves.

Back in February, it would have been nice to use the defense production act to ramp up N95s, get those out to people "At high risk" and do fit testing for as many of those as possible, along with training on proper use/cleaning/etc. of course now we are all at risk, if not of a bad outcome, then certainly of catching and passing it along.

I still argue "doing all you can" should involve EVERYONE wearing a N95 if it is available, a mask if it is not, and strict physical distancing whenever it is possible (not just convenient or easy).

[beeatnik]

If people could see someone struggling to breathe on a non-rebreather @ 15L of o2 then being intubated related to covid complications = same thing.

Come on, man.

[beeatnik]

I find it somewhat frustrating that over 300k deaths into this, there are still any defenses posited for NOT wearing a mask. A mask by definition is not a respirator, and so it doesn't offer complete protection, but the data are clear on the use of masks versus not using masks for reducing transmission. There is so much virus now circulating that it is now much easier to catch it, and that cumulative 15 minutes over 8 hours of exposure is a true concern.

My county had a lot of ICU beds, yet we still went steadily toward the state 15% available and then from 15% beds available to under 3% in about a week. That happens because people are still roaming around breathing out virus for others to breath in.
It is inexplicable to me how with CGI etc they can't create better PSA on wearing masks AND keeping distance. Wearing a mask doesn't mean it is okay to sit next to someone, or stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

The DOSE (amount) of virus you are exposed to matters. A mask helps limit what escapes from you to others, more than it protects what you breath in. I've seen so many respiratory-fit-tests in the navy it isn't funny, and seeing the "smoke" they used for fit testing drives it home: it follows the path of least resistance and goes into the person around the RESPIRATOR edges if the fit isn't perfect, and with a mask it isn't even close to a respirator seal. You might as well be surprised that placing a 3-ft high wall of sand bags around 2/3 of your house didn't stop 2-ft high floodwater from reaching your house. Of course, there aren't enough N95 to go around, let alone ensure proper fit--meaning most of us we are all at some risk. That risk isn't likely personal for most of us, we will be the asymptomatic, the mildly ill, maybe even a few of us will deal with some lingering "long haul "issues, but we are part of the chain of transmission that has put 300,000 americans in the ground--on the way to half a million. Is that number just so big people just have to sigh and say "oh well, I miss seeing my team, my bar stool, my dance floor, etc"? It is bad enough how many people HAVE to be in public, interacting, without giving the virus more avenues to spread.

Which is not to say give up, it screams to me now more than ever WE all need to do WHAT YOU CAN to break transmission. Please WEAR a mask, and stay AWAY from people as much as possible, even with a mask.

Jim, do you believe that if you had been wearing a surgical or cloth mask in late February and the gentleman who coughed all over you had also been wearing a surgical for cloth mask, you would not have contracted Long Haul Covid-19?

[Clean39T]

Come on, man.

I'm with Tim. Most idiots think "I had the flu, whatever...can't be that bad, didn't kill Trump..." The stronger the public messaging the better. OR state has been running some great ads and has billboards all over the state that drive home the stupidity of holiday gatherings and how little we are being asked to do here to slow the spread. Ever see cigarette packaging outside of the US? Sometimes a little crude truth goes a long ways.

[beeatnik]

I'm with Tim. Most idiots think "I had the flu, whatever...can't be that bad, didn't kill Trump..." The stronger the public messaging the better. OR state has been running some great ads and has billboards all over the state that drive home the stupidity of holiday gatherings and how little we are being asked to do here to slow the spread. Ever see cigarette packaging outside of the US? Sometimes a little crude truth goes a long ways.

I've been on the other side of the ICU window during intubation. I've had medical power of attorney. I've made the end of life decision. I'd prefer if Tim would make his point with a bit more tact.

Why does it feel as if the medical establishment just discovered the concept of group dynamics?

[Clyde]

Thanks for your commentary. I've been up close to the whole covid thing since it started, and in the ED we are the ones who get the pt's first then stabilize them then send them to the floor if they make it that far. I'm rough around the edges for sure. We are not always certain of what we are dealing with until the test result show which use to be a couple days, now it's down to a few hours. The real heroes are the ICU RN's who are sometimes around it their whole shifts, where as we never know what's coming through the door. It's not been a lot a very enjoyable period of time. But we don't get to choose those things. It just happens and we deal with it.