Timepieces

[choke]

I'm sure true watch aficionados who know all about the movements in each watch would have some good reasons to prefer the IWC over the Sinn, but I'm not smart enough to know the difference, and my wallet will appreciate that.

Both watches use an ETA 2824 movement; IWC does modify the ones that they use and I'm not sure how much Sinn does the same. I don't think that there's a clear cut winner in the movement department between the two. Frankly though, as much as I love the styling of many IWC watches the fact that they use the 2824 has always been a bit of a turn-off to me since I have grown to really appreciate an in-house movement.

That's not to say that there is anything wrong with the ETA 2824. Some aficionados may consider it 'pedestrian' but it's been used in many great watches. One only has to look at the Ulysse Nardin Trilogy of Time series (Astrolabium, Planetarium and Tellurium) which all use the 2824 as the starting point (modified by Dr. Ludwig Oechslin) to see that the movement can certainly be something quite special.

But as NYCfixie said, buy the one you like. Being able to look at it upon your wrist and smile a little every time that you do trumps what's inside the case.

And, I would not get caught up in "higher price equals better quality" nonsense as almost any watch aficionado will tell you the Tudor shown above is better looking and better quality than the IWC Mark XVIII yet it costs less.

Ehh.....I'm not sure 'almost any' would agree. 'Better looking' is of course subjective so it's impossible to say one beats the other in a clear way....personal taste factors in to the equation. 'Better quality' is perhaps a bit easier to assess though there is some subjectivity there as well. I'd have to hold both in my hands at the same time to compare. Every IWC I have seen in person has been very well made and the watch community as a whole seems to feel the same. I know that Tudor has underwent many changes and improvements in the last several years and I have not seen any of the newer Tudors in person so I can't comment on their quality......but as for the older ones I have seen/held I would rate them below IWC in quality.

[dashDustin]

Movements are so varied, it’s almost impossible to state which is better than which. However, any movement that can claim COSC certification is top notch, in my opinion. But...then again, as I recall even COSC certification relies on a manufacturer to send in their movement to be tested, and pay for said testing. Various non-COSC movements are tested to standards greater than that of COSC. But...they can’t sport those 3 words on the dial that are so highly sought after. What’s the premium one pays for the North Flag to have not only an in-house movement, but also a COSC certification? The watch is fairly inexpensive, so I wonder how much value can be placed on Chronometer Officially Certified.

It sounds a lot like the UCI’s wheel certification.

[choke]

Movements are so varied, it’s almost impossible to state which is better than which. However, any movement that can claim COSC certification is top notch, in my opinion. But...then again, as I recall even COSC certification relies on a manufacturer to send in their movement to be tested, and pay for said testing. Various non-COSC movements are tested to standards greater than that of COSC. But...they can’t sport those 3 words on the dial that are so highly sought after. What’s the premium one pays for the North Flag to have not only an in-house movement, but also a COSC certification? The watch is fairly inexpensive, so I wonder how much value can be placed on Chronometer Officially Certified.

It sounds a lot like the UCI’s wheel certification.

You are correct that manufacturers have to send the movement in and pay for COSC certification. A COSC certificiate doesn't have any bearing on the quality or value of a movement for me....it's nice but that's all. Rolex does put a big emphasis on it though.

COSC used to release data every year but apparently that ceased a few years ago. This is the latest data that I could find....

[Jason Musgrave]

Speaking of Seiko 5's, I have a story about mine.

A while back, although I know nothing about regulating watches (other than having a timegrapher, which is neat to play with every now and then), I decided to try to tweak my SKX007 because the 7S26 movement had never been terribly accurate from the start when it was new, and it had gotten to point where it was loosing about a minute a day. Even though the SKX007 isn't that expensive, I looked around for a beater with a 7S26 on which I could practice first and got a nice Seiko 5 on the ADV forum. It turned out that the "beater" only lost about a second or so a day and keeps the best time of all of my auto's, so I haven't dared to mess with it. The watch is in very good shape, with no significant scratches. Judging from a few tool marks on the caseback, I'm guessing that someone opened it, did a very good job of regulating it, and it's now part of my normal rotation.

I've said this several times here but this mirrors my own experience. Years back I was trying to convince my wife to let me buy her an auto, she wasn't having any of it and said "fine but it has to be under $50" knowing full well I wouldn't find anything...well I found one of these and it has been the most accurate auto I have ever owned. At one point I let it go for 3 months without touching it - it was only a handful of seconds off!!

[murphy]

You are correct that manufacturers have to send the movement in and pay for COSC certification. A COSC certificiate doesn't have any bearing on the quality or value of a movement for me....it's nice but that's all. Rolex does put a big emphasis on it though.

COSC used to release data every year but apparently that ceased a few years ago. This is the latest data that I could find....

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the big watchmakers also test above and beyond COSC specifications. The three that come to mind first are Rolex, Omega, and Grand Seiko.

[Jason Musgrave]

Paradive is here, it's really well executed!!

[burgess1108]

Have wanted a Panerai for years, but could never really find one that ticked all the boxes for me; less than monster size (I have a cyclist's wrist size after all), date, no crown guard. Then they go and release five new blue dial beauties. Incoming...



I'll always love my Speedmaster, though. I think with these two pieces, my "collection" is complete.

[rcunnane]

Please forgive the long post, and maybe this should be a new thread (mods feel free to move), but I'm curious hear the group's input on my dilemma (first world, I know).

In an effort to mark some significant recent, and upcoming, events (promotion, 10 year anniversary) I find myself in the market for my first real timepiece. I was bit by the bug years ago and have been a long-term obsessive about watches ever since. My list has evolved over time, but largely existed on a wistful "someday" level due to financial and life restraints. When everything exists in the hypothetical it's easy to "know" what you want and what you would buy - now that I have the opportunity it's a lot more difficult. I've narrowed things down to a few leading contenders and would love to get your feedback on the merits and drawbacks of each since I know many of you guys have these pieces.

Some background to give you a sense of where I am:
-- My budget is probably about $5K now, if I wait some time (like ~1.5 years until my 40th b-day I may be able to push it up some more).
-- I'm an academic physician, so while I often wear semi-formal wear (suits, sport coats, etc) it's not super rigid like a board room or anything. I'm also in scrubs a lot.
-- As you'll see below I tend to gravitate towards divers, pilot watches, chronographs and GMTs - I guess I like the more tool watch aesthetic.
-- The watch would be a daily wearer (not going to use the term "beater") so durability is important.
-- I would like to build a collection over time, but not for the purpose of investment. I want to wear and enjoy my watches, not have them in a safe so I can sell them later for a profit.
-- My ideal collection would likely include many of these down the line, but I need to decide how to start.

Here are the watches I'm considering in no particular order:

1.) Tudor Black Bay GMT
-- I loved this thing when I first saw it. I like that it seems to be getting back to what Rolex used to be in terms of a high quality, durable, well-designed, functional tool watch.
-- Seems like an amazing value given that it is $3,900 on a bracelet and $3,575 on a strap. With that you get 200M water resistance, in house 70-hour power reserve movement and a "true" GMT complication. It's also available new with all the benefits of that over the used market.
-- The pepsi color scheme is awesome and the more subdued, matte, colors of the aluminum bezel seem more functional than the bright ones on a classic Rolex GMT Master II 16710 (which is also ~$5000 more expensive!).
-- Cons: People worry about the thickness (14.8mm), but pictures don't look too bad. I have yet to try one on so who knows. Pepsi color scheme, while awesome, maybe not the most versatile. Also, date wheel issues being reported but hopefully will be resolved by the time I would buy it.
Tudor_Black_Bay_GMT.jpg
Image from Hodinkee.com

2.) Omega Speedmaster Professional reference 3572.50
-- The classic - though I particularly like this version with the Hesalite crystal and exhibition caseback. It has been discontinued, but frequently available on the gray market at ~$3,100-$3,500.
-- I love it and my dad used to wear an old quartz Omega - so there is a definite draw there because of that.
-- Cons: I've looked at Speedys so many times, I kind of feel like I may get bored with it at some point. Also, while controversial, I do use the date feature a lot on my current watch a lot.
Speedmaster front.jpg
Speedmaster back.jpg

3.) IWC Pilot's Chronograph reference 3717
-- I've always liked the legible, but complex design of this dial. I also like the splash of color from the seconds dial. This version is slightly smaller at 42mm than the current reference 3777 at 43mm
-- Also discontinued, but available via gray market at ~$3,500
IWC 3717.jpg

4.) IWC Pilot's Chronograph reference 3706
-- I like the unique dial, colors and hands. The vintage vibe is cool and hails back to the, arguably, better days of IWC in the '90s.
-- Discontinued but available for ~$3,200
IWC 3706.jpg

Others:
5.) IWC Doppelchronograph reference 3711
-- Not really all that practical but this thing is just dope. Super thick case so probably difficult to have as a daily wear. Maybe someday as an addition to the collection - might also scratch the IWC 3706 itch at the same time.
-- Surprisingly available on gray market for ~$5,000
IWC Doppelchronograph.jpg

6.) Rolex GMT Master II reference 16710
-- If price were not an object...unfortunately it is.
Rolex-GMT-Master-II-16710.jpg


Let me know if I should be thinking about anything else that would fit the bill.

Ryan

[Matthew Strongin]

My vote is to wait and stretch and get the Rolex. Modern Rolexes are extremely well made and durable and will hold their value better than anything else on your list. You'll spend more, but it will stand the test of time and be worth more down the line. And you'd be starting your watch collection with something that is a grail watch for most.

My second vote is for the Tudor. It's a great watch for the money with quality and construction above it's price-range peers. A good start of a collection and a way to get into nice watches without going overboard.

Speedmasters are great and classic and worthy of being in any good collection.

[rcunnane]

Others I like:

Nomos Club Automatic Date Atlantic:
Nomos club-automat-datum-atlantik.jpg

Sinn 856 UTC:
Sinn 856-UTC.jpg

[Jason Musgrave]

Me, I'd get the Tudor.

[dashDustin]

4.) IWC Pilot's Chronograph reference 3706
-- I like the unique dial, colors and hands. The vintage vibe is cool and hails back to the, arguably, better days of IWC in the '90s.
-- Discontinued but available for ~$3,200
IWC 3706.jpg

WatchNet: Trading Post: FS IWC Pilot Chrono 376 Never Polished w/box papers Reduced Again

lovely example for a killer price, in my opinion. admittedly, i'm partial to IWC. i'm wearing a 3777 right now. i prefer the contrasting day/ date...but...yeah. IWCs speak to me and i don't see enough of them in the wild to just be like "yep. another IWC." it's the brand that got me into watches.

i can tell you, though, regardless of which you get, you'll still have the desire for the others. so opt for the one that will hold you over the longest. the one you'd take home to mom, not the one you'd take home from the bar.

[NYCfixie]

I concur with Strongin and by reading your post it appears you already made the decision:
1) Rolex GMT
2) Tudor GMT
3) Everything else

Please know that I am biased (having been raised by physicians who also taught med students and both wore Rolex watches) :
- 1993 Rolex Explorer II, 40mm, white dial (purchased new after my first big job promotion)
- 2010 Rolex DateJust, white dial, Gold/Steel, Oyster bracelet, 36mm classic size (purchased new for a significant birthday)
- 2018 Rolex Submariner Date, Ceramic bezel, Oyster bracelet, 40mm (purchased new for a significant birthday - but very early since I was on a waiting list for one)

If you want more opinions, go back to page 60 and read forward because there is a great deal of love for Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Seiko, and other brands. You need to make your own decision but I always think it is fun to see what others have and why they have it,

My vote is to wait and stretch and get the Rolex. Modern Rolexes are extremely well made and durable and will hold their value better than anything else on your list. You'll spend more, but it will stand the test of time and be worth more down the line. And you'd be starting your watch collection with something that is a grail watch for most.

My second vote is for the Tudor. It's a great watch for the money with quality and construction above it's price-range peers. A good start of a collection and a way to get into nice watches without going overboard.

Speedmasters are great and classic and worthy of being in any good collection.

[murphy]

I am probably biased, but I doubt you will get bored with a Speedmaster. I daily wear mine so it is definitely durable. Also, it becomes a ritual every morning for you to stand up and wind your Speedy (I do mine in the morning, but you do you). That being said if you don't like the idea of winding your watch every day I would look elsewhere.

As for another option, can I interest you in a Grand Seiko GMT? Their dials, hands, and markers are all made in house and it shows. Take a hard look at the details on this dial.

That being said, Rolexes are beautiful and I lust after them; plus they hold value like no others in this price range.

[Blue Jays]

If watch will be worn frequently with scrubs that indicates a distinct possibility the watch may need to be occasionally washed. A metal bracelet or rubber strap is far easier to maintain in that regard.

If getting a watch with a crocodile (or similar) exotic strap, it is better if that is after you own two other “daily driver” watches. Watches with exotic straps need to breathe between wearings or they prematurely get very gross.

[NYCfixie]

Compare and contrast....Even as a diehard Rolex fan myself, the Tudor GMT is really nice.

I was invited to a Rolex event at a local jeweler and was able to try this on....

2018 Rolex GMT-Master II
Stainless steel, 40mm, new movement, 70 hour power reserve (previous one was 48 hours)

Thankfully it was a non-working sample otherwise I may have purchased it on the spot (and had to fight off 50 other people who also wanted it). I never liked the jubilee bracelet but it works really well on this timepiece. The watch wears really well on the wrist.

Attachment 108362

1.) Tudor Black Bay GMT
-- I loved this thing when I first saw it. I like that it seems to be getting back to what Rolex used to be in terms of a high quality, durable, well-designed, functional tool watch.
-- Seems like an amazing value given that it is $3,900 on a bracelet and $3,575 on a strap. With that you get 200M water resistance, in house 70-hour power reserve movement and a "true" GMT complication. It's also available new with all the benefits of that over the used market.
-- The pepsi color scheme is awesome and the more subdued, matte, colors of the aluminum bezel seem more functional than the bright ones on a classic Rolex GMT Master II 16710 (which is also ~$5000 more expensive!).
-- Cons: People worry about the thickness (14.8mm), but pictures don't look too bad. I have yet to try one on so who knows. Pepsi color scheme, while awesome, maybe not the most versatile. Also, date wheel issues being reported but hopefully will be resolved by the time I would buy it.
Tudor_Black_Bay_GMT.jpg
Image from Hodinkee.com

[dashDustin]

Another worthy consideration, in my humble opinion, is an 'older' Planet Ocean.

Steel Chronometer Watch 291.51.82 | OMEGA(R)

That was my first nice watch. Sold it to pay off some of wifey's medical bills 3.5 years ago. I miss it. It was just about perfect. I would like to get another some day.

[rcunnane]

Compare and contrast....Even as a diehard Rolex fan myself, the Tudor GMT is really nice.

Thanks for all the input fellas! Recent Rolex designs just don't do it for me - I think it mainly has to do with the ceramic bezels. If I went Rolex I'd probably wait a bit to save and then shoot for something from just before they switched to ceramic.

[MisterDangerPants]

Nomos Club Automatic Date Atlantic

As I read your initial post, I was going to reply with a recommendation of taking a look at NOMOS and was happy to see you have them on your radar from your subsequent post. I have a NOMOS Club (manual wind, 36mm) and it's fabulous.

[burgess1108]

For me, I'd go with:

1) Rolex
2) Speedmaster
3) Tudor

I own a Speedmaster that I've had almost exactly a year and I've worn it daily in that time. I'm very happy. Classic, somewhat understated for a chrono, but for those that appreciate them, recognizable.