Coconino Cycles

[roguedog]

That's great to hear Steve. Glad the community came together and you're able to offer a great carrot. Good on you.. and best to the folks involved.

[steve garro]

rolling & trimming to raw length 32' of top tubes, two diameters + two different wall thicknesses, plus making 4" fishmouthed seattube sleeves. Barry the sometimes shop helper pictured. great to have him back in the shop this winter when his biz slows a bit. - Garro.

[steve garro]

Coconino World HQ update, 10-31-10 coconino cycles custom bicycles 928 774 7747 www.coconinocycles.com: Mike's bike gone, Lainie's coming right along. - Garro.

[DCT]

steve-

its been a pleasure reading your smoked out section. you've obviously got the skill and your bikes are fucking awesome, but honestly, you're a cool cat and id be proud and happy to swing my leg over and jump on one of your bikes. personality and coolness is important, and you've got that. everyone @ v digs u.

keep up the good work

[anthonymaietta]

Steve,

I honestly can't remember/find if this question has already been asked, so I apologize if it has.

With such an awesome program like BikeCad out there, what advantage/benefit do you find from doing a full size hand drawn blueprint?

Love your work and blog. Keep it up.

Tony

[steve garro]

Steve,

I honestly can't remember/find if this question has already been asked, so I apologize if it has.

With such an awesome program like BikeCad out there, what advantage/benefit do you find from doing a full size hand drawn blueprint?

Love your work and blog. Keep it up.

Tony

I love drafting, took it all through school. Less computer time in life = better. I'm making it with my hands, I may as well draw it with them too. I can hold parts up to the drawing to check them instantly in real time. I can write notes to myself while I work. I don't fiddle with geometries, I've figured out what I want before I start drawing while building the previous bike - I've been working on bikes professionally for 22yrs. all I need to draw is the front triangle, the CS's are a set length & fixtured in my Anvil fixture, and the SS's are made from scratch. Plus, and this is a big one - when I'm done the client gets the bluprint & they all dig that. - Garro.

[echelon_john]

Hi Steve,
Can you comment a little bit on downtube thicknesses/strength in your bikes? I notice that (at least in the photos I can recall) you don't use a gusset; is this true for big/heavy guys & 29ers as well as 26" bikes? Does susp fork vs. rigid impact this decision? What kind of wall thicknesses and butt lengths would you consider the minimum for a given weight rider/likely use?

I'm mostly a road guy but am planning to build a couple of MTBs soon and am looking at the options for maintaining/increasing strength at the DT/HT junction.

Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom!

Best,
John

[steve garro]

Hi Steve,
Can you comment a little bit on downtube thicknesses/strength in your bikes? I notice that (at least in the photos I can recall) you don't use a gusset; is this true for big/heavy guys & 29ers as well as 26" bikes? Does susp fork vs. rigid impact this decision? What kind of wall thicknesses and butt lengths would you consider the minimum for a given weight rider/likely use?

I'm mostly a road guy but am planning to build a couple of MTBs soon and am looking at the options for maintaining/increasing strength at the DT/HT junction.

Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom!

Best,
John

I don't put out much on tubing choices, but i'll say this: the overall length of the tube will do the choosing for you. there are only a few really viable 29er choices that combine strength with longevity + are long enough with the long ATC + ~ 63mm BB drop that will work {generally 670mm +}. you are not going to find anything less then 35mm & 9/6/9 on any 29er I make, unless it's kind of on the smaller side & rigid, then there is a 35mm x 9/6/7 that works real nice. I'm also apeing Soulcraft & saying "no more suspention corrected forks or frames built for them" void on the warrenty. rigid forks over ~ 440mm ATC are dangerous IMO. They have to be over built, as does the DT or failure will happen {recall that thread awhile back?} you have to get off the fence. rigid or suspention - decide. I also like somthing thicker then 7/4/7 for off road just for dent resistance, unless it's a relly light rider. again, IMO - Garro.

[echelon_john]

Thanks for the response! I figured 9/6/9 would be pretty much the minimum for the DT, whether suspended or unsuspended. Assume you are saying that if it's a rigid setup you'd consider going even thicker? Also, just so I'm clear, you'll build rigid 29er forks/framesets that aren't susp. corrected so you can minimize the ATC--the size of the 'lever' that's stressing the DT/HT junction, and suspension-compatible 29er frames with tube dimensions like you mentioned, because the suspension should be lessening the stress on the DT/HT junction?

Is there any situation where you do use a gusset? I know there are plenty of pros and cons...just curious what your take is.

Thanks Steve--appreciate your thoughts and the info you continue to share, esp with regard to fillet brazing and fillers/flux. It's all really helpful.

John

[steve garro]

Thanks for the response! I figured 9/6/9 would be pretty much the minimum for the DT, whether suspended or unsuspended. Assume you are saying that if it's a rigid setup you'd consider going even thicker? Also, just so I'm clear, you'll build rigid 29er forks/framesets that aren't susp. corrected so you can minimize the ATC--the size of the 'lever' that's stressing the DT/HT junction, and suspension-compatible 29er frames with tube dimensions like you mentioned, because the suspension should be lessening the stress on the DT/HT junction?

Is there any situation where you do use a gusset? I know there are plenty of pros and cons...just curious what your take is.

Thanks Steve--appreciate your thoughts and the info you continue to share, esp with regard to fillet brazing and fillers/flux. It's all really helpful.

John

you mostly nailed it there, with the exception that I use a thinner DT as the ATC gets shorter - less leverage on the DT. also - think of butting as internal gusseting without the external stress riser........check out the 35mmx750mm supertherm DT. that sucka will love you long time - Garro.

[echelon_john]

thanks man. going to see our friend bob mould on tuesday night. celebrated summer never gets old.

john

[steve garro]

thanks man. going to see our friend bob mould on tuesday night. celebrated summer never gets old.

john

nice! I've been stuck on "metal circus" "zen arcade" and "the living end" lately - Garro.

[Dornbox]

I love drafting, took it all through school. Less computer time in life = better. I'm making it with my hands, I may as well draw it with them too. I can hold parts up to the drawing to check them instantly in real time. I can write notes to myself while I work. I don't fiddle with geometries, I've figured out what I want before I start drawing while building the previous bike - I've been working on bikes professionally for 22yrs. all I need to draw is the front triangle, the CS's are a set length & fixtured in my Anvil fixture, and the SS's are made from scratch. Plus, and this is a big one - when I'm done the client gets the bluprint & they all dig that. - Garro.

I so miss drafting! I just don't have a shop large enough to dedicate the space. Some day! Love your style and simplicity Garro! Do you change your stay length for your... monster randos (for lack of a better term) or do you really keep it where you like it regardless? Thanks!-Chris

[steve garro]

I so miss drafting! I just don't have a shop large enough to dedicate the space. Some day! Love your style and simplicity Garro! Do you change your stay length for your... monster randos (for lack of a better term) or do you really keep it where you like it regardless? Thanks!-Chris

you caught me going out the door! a complete front triangle & three wheel builds for today :} The CS length is different for *every* bike.........and, it's always where I like it - Garro.

[Dornbox]

it's always where I like it - Garro.

Nice! -Chris

[steve garro]

shipping day - maxxed out on custom wheels. left to right.....DT-Swiss/XT, Velocity synergy x ultegra, Phil Wood x Stan's flows, DT-Swiss x Paul fixed/Schmidt Dyno - some sweet hoops going out to AZ, Wash DC, WA & Chi-Town - Garro.

[Dave Kirk]

Hey Mountain man,

Do you think there is any merit to the idea of building a 26R - 29F MTB? I like the idea of how well 29's roll but I'm not a fan of the long stays required. Have you done this?

dave

[steve garro]

Hey Mountain man,

Do you think there is any merit to the idea of building a 26R - 29F MTB? I like the idea of how well 29's roll but I'm not a fan of the long stays required. Have you done this?

dave

Yep. I did one that takes a 26" rear & either a 29 x 3.35" *or* a 26" x 3.7"/4.0" in the front - it lives in Osaka. the guy loves it. Moots does one, too. I think it's a very good idea. - Garro.

[Dave Kirk]

Cool.

I haven't decided yet if I will go rigid or with a suspension fork. Do you have a 29'r suspension fork that you know and love?

Dave

[steve garro]

Cool.

I haven't decided yet if I will go rigid or with a suspension fork. Do you have a 29'r suspension fork that you know and love?

Dave

they almost always leave here with either a Fox or a Rock Shox Reba, unless fully non-suspended. Fox was kicking the shit out of everyone on the suspention front, but i have to say - the new RS feel *really* good. the negative air feature really lets you "float" in the travel, and if you want remote lockout RS has you covered. I've sent out a few of the new SID's on 26ers, and man - they are light, feel great, and are simple & easy on the eye. Likely, everyone had to up their game in the last few yrs. Sram has done a great job with RS, if they had not bought them they may be DOA by now - Garro.