Kevin's Sourdough ::

[rwsaunders]

I've found that stiff starter is a bit easier for me to manage and the bread outcome has been very good. It didn't happen without photos so here are some exciting shots of flour and water turned into yeast...ymmv of course.

Photo one is of the first feeding of 227g of liquid starter discard and 113g of all purpose flour. Hand mix and shape into a ball and place in a lightly oiled container...let rise 8-10 hours until it doubles. I let it rise in the oven with the oven turned off of course. Especially in the Winter, the closed environment of the oven contributes to a stable temperature. Some choose to leave the oven light on for a warmer temperature and quicker rise.

Photos 2/3 are after the stiff starter has risen and it will be reduced for a second feeding of 57g of the stiff starter, 57g of H20 and 113g of all purpose flour. Mix into a ball, place in a lightly oiled container and it will be ready to use in another 8-10 hours. It will eventually look like photos 2/3 again. If you're not going to use it right way, let it rise for only 2 hours and refrigerate. Whatever you don't use for bread, can be used for a number of items such as pizza dough, pancakes and crumpets. The King Arthur website will steer you straight with some methodology and recipes.

Stiff Sourdough Starter Recipe | King Arthur Flour

[Too Tall]

Don't give up on me. I'm barely just barely able to force myself to read "directions" when it comes to cooking. Old habits die hard. This is going to be my approach, don't hate me.
Tall Central Authority has spoken. My plain white bread is great for toast otherwise not very interesting. Hoping to expand my horizons gently to making more interesting bread without getting too involved.

Sourdough mother (4 tablespoons) into warm water (3 1/2 cups) until I see some action than added to:
3 cups KA bread flour
2 cups KA whole wheat
1 cup rye
This is what it looks like after 6 hrs. and getting punched down twice. I'll let it sit overnight at room temp and bake it off tomorrow.
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[rwsaunders]

Don’t forget the salt this time.

[Too Tall]

I remembered the salt ;)
Pucker up. This turned out not so bad. It is definitely sourdough, very crunchy crust. Had to wrestle it out of the pan. I'm pretty happy, thinking I need to reduce the water ratio some. What I liked was the play between rye and whole wheat and the crust will be a hit with Mrs. TT. This was a very wet dough.

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[rwsaunders]

Double header this morning in terms of baking. We were both up early and I wasn't riding until the temperature hit 27F (my self imposed low limit) so Mrs. RW had the upper oven for her cranberry scones and I had the lower oven for my sourdough. Another 1/3 white whole wheat; 2/3 white all purpose mix with the stiff starter base and proofed 18 hours in the fridge. I'm going to have to adjust the mix for two people as I have to freeze most of the boule after baking, or it would go to waste. I have Mike's address somewhere...

[Too Tall]

Nice looking bread. I've adjusted the rye/whole wheat in my dough which sat for 14 hrs. at room temp and overnight in the fridge. We shall see what happens soon, fingers crossed.
LOL I returned the empty sourdough container to my neighbor who tells me his normal sourdough loafs are all rye and whole wheat zero white flour. Give me something to think about.

[rwsaunders]

I’ve gone with different levels of whole grain wheat and darker crusts but I’ve had trouble getting the family to eat it. Slowly getting there and compromise is good. Watching Mrs. RW spreading peanut butter on a slice yesterday at lunch was a good thing. Also turned a friend’s wife and son onto the sourdough drug a few months ago...it’s fun exchanging tales and photos.

[Too Tall]

Straight out of the oven. They look great. I used wet hands to shape the one on the right and experimenting with two shapes.
500F for 10 mins.
400F for 35 mins.
More pics. once they are cool.
bread1.jpg

[rwsaunders]

On a related note, I was tired of using an old plastic Thai takeout container for my starter, so I invested $8 in a glass, MUSA Ball jar. Maybe it's in my head, but the starter reacted very favorably to the new home and went nuts. The photo was taken after removing it from the fridge too, an environment that is supposed to suppress the hunger of the yeast. To you chemists and biologists...can glass make the difference?

[Octave]

Nice looking bread. I've adjusted the rye/whole wheat in my dough which sat for 14 hrs. at room temp and overnight in the fridge. We shall see what happens soon, fingers crossed.
LOL I returned the empty sourdough container to my neighbor who tells me his normal sourdough loafs are all rye and whole wheat zero white flour. Give me something to think about.

If you find a whole wheat flour to be difficult to work with, you can add a small amount of vital wheat gluten to help with the stretch and texture. You don't need much (for a large loaf, say ~500g of flour range, you can use 5g of vital wheat gluten). Plus if you try it and don't feel like you need to use it, you can make seitan with it afterwards!

Out of curiosity, do you know what he means when he says "whole wheat"? Here in France the flours are all designated by T###, from T45 to T150, which is a reflection of the ash percentage. T45 is ~0.45% ash and ~9% protein, which is known as pastry flour in US. Up to T150 (1.5% ash, ~13% protein) which in the US is usually referred to as whole wheat flour. That being said, I've also see flour in the US labeled as whole wheat that has closer to 1% ash and even higher protein (15%) which would be called T110 here. Ash and protein content are going to change how much moisture the flour holds, which in turn changes the cooking time, the chew and spring, the humidity % of the overall dough...etc. In any event, it's worth known what you're working with.

Aside from the rye loaves, we bake everything in our house with at least 60% T110 and then mess around with the remaining 40% (either adding T150 or adding other flours - really loving spelt and einkorn right now). But baking with pure T150 is tough and you're unlikely to get beautiful looking cavitations and springy loaves with it like you see in this thread. A pure T150 loaf tends to come out more like classic American whole-wheat sandwich bread, even with a touch of vital wheat gluten thrown in.

[Too Tall]

Octave - King Arthur claims 14% protein >> King Arthur Premium 1% Whole Wheat Flour - 5 lb.

Thanks for the vital wheat gluten clue. I find the whole wheat ok to work with, I'm interested to find just the right magic to make loafs that stand up well on a bakers stone. Maintaining height is trival to some however it's important if you want to make some honkin' big sandwhiches!

OK here is one of the whole wheat/rye loaves. I love the sourdough taste and texture is very moist with a crisp crust. I could not ask for more but what do I know? I'm new to this.

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[Octave]

Looks good to me! What rye/wheat ratio did you use?

[Too Tall]

Looks good to me! What rye/wheat ratio did you use?

THANKS :) I think it is really good. A client who bakes every week gave it a hearty thumbs up and left with a thick slice.

White > 4c
Whole Wheat > 2.5c
Rye > 1.5c
Sourdough Biological Disaster > 4 tbl spoons
Water > 3c

Mixed with a spoon than left in a 100F space for 12 hrs. Stored overnight in the fridge. Baked off at 500F for 10 mins than reduced to 400F for 35 mins.
Baked on a pizza steel with a bakers stone on shelf below and a pan of some water below that.

[rwsaunders]

We shall see about this one as I followed a whole grain/sourdough/raisin recipe from King Arthur and I probably should have downsized the recipe based on the size of my dutch oven. I'll split the boule and give 1/2 to my Mother-in-law who starts her 93yo day with toasted raisin bread and coffee. Something is working for sure as she's sharp as a tack and as fit as a mule, even though she prefaces every statement with "If I'm around this time next year..."

[Too Tall]

NICE looking bread R.W. not to mention you are a good boy for taking care of Mom-in-law.

[Too Tall]

#breadday
I'm really really happy with this. Same ratio as last time with a shorter fermentation period. Crust is crisp and it will make dynomite sandwich bread. One loaf for the house and one for the woman who has been cutting my hair for 20 years.
How does this look? I'll take your word, I'm still quite new to this.
*Question, I really do not get much rise using this minimal knead method. That's ok right?

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[dgaddis]

It looks pretty dense. Which may be fine, if you like the texture, and denser (to a point) is good for sandwich bread. Something like this is probably amazing with a little butter on it, but would suck for sandwhich bread since all your stuff would fall out.



If you're not getting much rise my guess is one of two things:
1 - you're not giving it enough time to ferment
2 - the gluten isn't developed enough to trap the gasses caused by fermentation

[Too Tall]

I'm going with #2, it fermented overnight. I do like the texture, it makes incredible toast btw.
Next go I'll play around with forming loafs and allowing them to rise on their own for a few hrs. in a warm spot.
I'd hate to give in and start kneading ;)

[guido]

it looks pretty dense. Which may be fine, if you like the texture, and denser (to a point) is good for sandwich bread. Something like this is probably amazing with a little butter on it, but would suck for sandwhich bread since all your stuff would fall out.



if you're not getting much rise my guess is one of two things:
1 - you're not giving it enough time to ferment
2 - the gluten isn't developed enough to trap the gasses caused by fermentation

that is amazing looking bread!

[Too Tall]

You should see the wheels he builds ;)