2020 Political Chatter

[HorsCat]

The stupidity of the Republican Party on the whole Trump disaster, i mean administration, was epic. They just self destroyed for nothing.

Stocking one third of the federal judiciary, including the Supreme Court, with young, über right wing ideologues isn’t “nothing.” From the perspective of Moscow Mitch and the Heritage Foundation, it is a resounding “Mission Accomplished.” Plus, time will tell if they are destroyed. I’ve been hearing about the death of the GOP for the better part of five years and am still waiting (hoping) for it to happen. The 2020 election wasn’t the GOP smack down it needed to be and the Ds’ control of both the House and Senate could not be more tenuous.

[Mark Kelly]

I have understood that were he impeached he could not run for office again in four years, which seems reason enough to have a second go.

Not automatically. If convicted by the Senate (after impeachment by the House), the Senate can further vote to disbar him from future office. Both actions require a 2/3 majority. The first is very unlikely to be achieved, the second is pure fantasy.

In any case it might not hold. By the charmingly named legal doctrine that "the stream may not rise above its source", no body can make a decision that is binding on a future version of that same body. It seems that this would mean a future Senate should have the power to undo a disbarrment unless this is specifically forbidden by the constitution. On the other hand if that also took a 2/3 majority that would need lots of Dems on board which is beyond fantasy.

[davids]

We can blame the white supremacists because they are the most vocal and visible, but it is the nation's illness because our society was built upon segregation and racism. We are they.

For me, I approached my research as an engineer because that's my day job. Confederate monuments remain to remind and reinforce systemic racism. Unless they are on a battlefield or in a museum or memorial park, the intention of the monuments was to intimidate and suppress African-Americans during the Jim Crow period. The Civil Rights Act was to end Jim Crow and while it gave credence to legal challenges, it really did nothing for systemic racism. There were major actors in world of white supremacy, but as a nation, we were complicit. We remain complicit as long as it doesn't directly affect us. We can post all kinds of patronizing stuff on social media about how racism is wrong, but what are we doing about it besides changing the background on our profile pictures.

I took interest in this topic because of my root cause background. We could tell everyone to stop being racist, but how many people don't know their social position was impacted by systemic racism? My goal is root cause layout of why systemic racism is so ingrained in our culture, if people know how the cause, perhaps they can reflect on their role. At the same time, African-Americans need to know as well. This is about the mindset of a nation, not one group.

This is insightful. I think one of the most important (and difficult for us White folks) movements of our time is BLM. We've got to recognize our own privilege and work against it.

Plus listen to Black Americans and other oppressed, excluded minority groups while keeping our mouths sealed shut. I had my own "holy shit" moment a couple years ago when I met an old colleague for lunch while visiting DC. In the course of our conversation she told me how much she'd hated living in Boston all those years. I had no idea. I spent the next twenty minutes listening to her horrific depressing predictable stories. I got the merest taste of what it is like to be Black 24/7.

Progress is possible. Hell, my city is about to get its first Black, first woman mayor. Thanks to our new President.

[Tom]

One thing that certainly deserves a very long hard look are the protection services at the Capitol. Citing disparate treatment of BLM protestors, unfortunately, dilutes the issue and allows some to immediately dismiss the problem because, well, you know, they're not us. What needs a glaring 10000 lumen light shined on it is that any law enforcement or security professional could see this coming from a mile away and did nothing to stop it. Quite the opposite. "After you, Alphonse". "No, after you Gaston"...

A few resignations at the top are window dressing. The investigation needs to proceed individual by individual all the way down the line and every single one that failed to act needs to be fired and those that abetted need to be prosecuted. And bad decisions like "There's no way we could ever have dreamed something like this would happen" can't be taken as incompetence but as intent.

A friend's son is a Treasury agent. When he was posted locally he told anecdotes of how when some dumb kid posted something threatening on social media they'd end up dispatched to have a little talk with them. He said usually it was just theatrics, they'd show up at the kid's school and parade them into a room and sternly admonish them. The point is, this stuff is watched. There's no way in hell that all the hooting and hollering done ahead of time wasn't fully and completely known. I'd be really surprised if the authorities didn't know fairly comprehensively who was traveling to Washington and when they'd be there.

[NorTX-Dave]

............................. The Lost Cause is part of American History, we shouldn't erase it.

The Lost Cause should be a teaching point in schools so people can learn the root causes of systemic racism and how it shaped the world we live in.

Do you have any recommendations for a reading list?

[WFSTEKL]

Do you have any recommendations for a reading list?

Start with Ibram X. Kendi, How To Be An Antiracist. It is a very insightful perspective on racism in America.

[AngryScientist]

Note to remember: When storming the capitol by force, remember to remove work ID.

Navistar, a direct marketing company in Maryland, announced that an employee had been terminated after he was photographed wearing his company ID badge inside the breached Capitol building.

[monadnocky]

One thing that certainly deserves a very long hard look are the protection services at the Capitol. Citing disparate treatment of BLM protestors, unfortunately, dilutes the issue and allows some to immediately dismiss the problem because, well, you know, they're not us. What needs a glaring 10000 lumen light shined on it is that any law enforcement or security professional could see this coming from a mile away and did nothing to stop it. Quite the opposite. "After you, Alphonse". "No, after you Gaston"...

A few resignations at the top are window dressing. The investigation needs to proceed individual by individual all the way down the line and every single one that failed to act needs to be fired and those that abetted need to be prosecuted. And bad decisions like "There's no way we could ever have dreamed something like this would happen" can't be taken as incompetence but as intent.

A friend's son is a Treasury agent. When he was posted locally he told anecdotes of how when some dumb kid posted something threatening on social media they'd end up dispatched to have a little talk with them. He said usually it was just theatrics, they'd show up at the kid's school and parade them into a room and sternly admonish them. The point is, this stuff is watched. There's no way in hell that all the hooting and hollering done ahead of time wasn't fully and completely known. I'd be really surprised if the authorities didn't know fairly comprehensively who was traveling to Washington and when they'd be there.

I once assumed that any attempt at storming the Capitol would result in the same outcome as attempting to storm the White House - immediate lethal force (note that I am not necessarily advocating such a thing, it's just what I assumed would occur). To see representatives (and one of the more memorable images depicts my representative, Annie Kuster, crouching behind some seats with a gas mask/bag over her head) cowering in fear, in the expectation that a mob is about to rip them limb from limb, is both terrifying and shameful.

How did an angry mob get into the Capitol? How the holy hell was this allowed to happen, WITH WEEKS OF ADVANCE WARNING?

A LOT of people have some 'splainin to do.

[guido]

Brendan Loper in the current New Yorker

[Saab2000]

I once assumed that any attempt at storming the Capitol would result in the same outcome as attempting to storm the White House - immediate lethal force (note that I am not necessarily advocating such a thing, it's just what I assumed would occur). To see representatives (and one of the more memorable images depicts my representative, Annie Kuster, crouching behind some seats with a gas mask/bag over her head) cowering in fear, in the expectation that a mob is about to rip them limb from limb, is both terrifying and shameful.

How did an angry mob get into the Capitol? How the holy hell was this allowed to happen, WITH WEEKS OF ADVANCE WARNING?

A LOT of people have some 'splainin to do.

You can literally walk right up to the Capitol building. As a kid I remember walking into it and standing in the Rotunda, seeing both the House and the Senate in session, etc. It was pretty cool. I learned that when members of congress are speaking as if to a packed chamber there might literally be fewer people in the room than fingers on your hand. Ted Kennedy addressed an empty Senate while I watched from the gallery. If you had seen this on the TV news that night you would have thought he was addressing a joint session of congress!

Today it's more complicated because for security reasons they really try to get people to go to the Capitol Visitor Center instead but I think seeing these things is still possible, if more complicated. Security at the WH is much more thorough, for obvious reasons though I have visited that as a tourist as well, both in the 1970s and then the 1990s.

Covid has the Capitol closed to visitors for now but I hope it will eventually be accessible again at some level. All Americans should visit if possible. I believe a call to your representative or senator's office may help in getting a guest pass, at least if the building reopens someday.

Yes, the treatment of these rioters, terrorists, insurgents, thugs, whatever we want to call them, demonstrates an unbelievable difference in how people of color and white folks are treated. I'm actually glad though that they weren't repelled with overwhelming force. It's likely that more deaths would have taken place and nobody wants a bloodbath at the US Capitol.

I have met many federal law enforcement officers in my work and without exception they have been extremely professional, Capitol Police included. These aren't your average traffic cops from my experience. But yes, the lack of preparedness given that everyone knew January 6th was going to be a crucial date seems inexcusable. The people who invaded the building made no secret of their plans to be as disruptive as possible.

What makes the day even sadder is the fact that actual elected officials took part in some of the mayhem. Their legislative bodies should expel them.

Edit: Some folks in the media have claimed that Biden's electoral victory was "certified" on the 6th. It wasn't. It was certified by the states and then the Electoral College weeks ago. The 6th is nothing more than a ceremonial counting of the ballots and can't change the outcome. Those senators and representatives who protested should be ashamed of themselves. They brought this carnage to the People's House by egging on the thugs in the weeks leading up to this ballot counting, which normally takes less than 30 minutes.

[monadnocky]

You can literally walk right up to the Capitol building.....

I remember this as well on a 7th grade field trip... so yeah I understand how its accessibility helps with democratic transparency. What I can't understand is how an angry, armed mob was met with little to no resistance, in fact appeared to be welcomed in (from some angles), with representatives inside the building, with weeks of clear warning, after Trump down the street incited to mob to violence.

This makes no sense to me. I'm not prone to conspiracy theories - I think there are more likely explanations - but none of them help to settle my mind about this.

[thollandpe]

On Tuesday evening, congressperson Sanchez (D-CA) had her husband find her will. On Wednesday morning, congressperson Kinzinger (R-IL) had his staffers stay home because he knew they could be in danger.

There was no question, they knew trouble was brewing.

[j44ke]

The concern is whether the ineffectual Capitol defense represented coordination at the upper levels of Capitol Police with the President or a complete breakdown of command and preparation by those people charged with protecting the Capitol.

Compare the park assault for Trump’s Bible waving and the assault on the Capitol at Trump’s instigation. Are they different or the same?

I’d especially like to know more about the role of Stephen Miller in all this. And by “all this” I mean all 4 years of coordination with state and local government, law enforcement at state and federal levels and various police unions. He is now Trump’s longest serving advisor. He cannot have been an uninterested party just there for the great party snacks.

[j44ke]

The last time I went to the Capitol, it was to see my friend who worked as Sen. Murkowski’s press liaison. Even with his credentials, we had to go around the barnyard to reach an entrance we could use. To reach his office, I had to show two forms of ID. There were armed police officers everywhere. We went through several metal detectors. Even once inside the layers of security, it was pretty easy to end up having to turn around because an elevator wasn’t allowing entrance to non-staff like me. I am sure that the first thing that happened was Congress members and staff were sent downstairs and through the connecting halls underground to the office building to the east(?) of the Capitol. That’s where my friend’s office was, along with Sen. Murkowski’s. He showed me his gas mask and his Tyvek exposure suit.

[gregl]

We're all looking for logical explanations. The most logical explanation to me is that the Capitol security forces were complacent and their vision clouded by America's implicit racism. Abject fear over BLM, complacent (complicit?) to white Trumpers. I have worked with Government personnel since I was a teenager. With all due respect to any federal government employees reading this, our federal government is generally very low in competence and can't keep a secret to save its collective life. That's what makes it so vulnerable to bad actors, either internal or external. Everything that played out this week was the result of manipulation followed by incompetent response.

Greg

[bigbill]

Do you have any recommendations for a reading list?

Gallagher, Gary W. and Alan T. Nolan, eds. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 2000.

Bonekemper III, Edward H. The Myth of the Lost Cause: Why the South fought the Civil War and why the North won. Washington: Regnery History, 2015.

Domby, Adam H. The False Cause: Fraud, Fabrication, and White Supremacy in Confederate Memory. Charlottesville, North Carolina: University of Virginia Press, 2020.

Bonekemper is a little hard to take, he was an attorney and his book is more of an indictment of the Confederacy than history.

[vvv321]

We can blame the white supremacists because they are the most vocal and visible, but it is the nation's illness because our society was built upon segregation and racism. We are they.

For me, I approached my research as an engineer because that's my day job. Confederate monuments remain to remind and reinforce systemic racism. Unless they are on a battlefield or in a museum or memorial park, the intention of the monuments was to intimidate and suppress African-Americans during the Jim Crow period. The Civil Rights Act was to end Jim Crow and while it gave credence to legal challenges, it really did nothing for systemic racism. There were major actors in world of white supremacy, but as a nation, we were complicit. We remain complicit as long as it doesn't directly affect us. We can post all kinds of patronizing stuff on social media about how racism is wrong, but what are we doing about it besides changing the background on our profile pictures.

I took interest in this topic because of my root cause background. We could tell everyone to stop being racist, but how many people don't know their social position was impacted by systemic racism? My goal is root cause layout of why systemic racism is so ingrained in our culture, if people know how the cause, perhaps they can reflect on their role. At the same time, African-Americans need to know as well. This is about the mindset of a nation, not one group.

As for the statement of "we are they", I just hope you aren't forgetting that People of color and black people are the We as well, and black people and POC are not the white supremacists. So no, not all We are they.

[davids]

The last time I went to the Capitol, it was to see my friend who worked as Sen. Murkowski’s press liaison. Even with his credentials, we had to go around the barnyard to reach an entrance we could use. To reach his office, I had to show two forms of ID. There were armed police officers everywhere. We went through several metal detectors. Even once inside the layers of security, it was pretty easy to end up having to turn around because an elevator wasn’t allowing entrance to non-staff like me. I am sure that the first thing that happened was Congress members and staff were sent downstairs and through the connecting halls underground to the office building to the east(?) of the Capitol. That’s where my friend’s office was, along with Sen. Murkowski’s. He showed me his gas mask and his Tyvek exposure suit.

I lobby in congressional office buildings pretty regularly and this is an accurate description of the security. Especially because once you're in, there are elected reps everywhere - a couple years ago I had lunch & a behind-the-scenes tour from a good friend who used to be a congressional correspondent and everywhere she went she was greeting MOCs. (It was a very cool tour!)

Given that, I was particularly struck to read that the Capitol Police did not secure the perimeter of the Capitol. I'm at IT guy and I would've known to do that.

And yeah - this isn't about a couple heads rolling at the top. The dysfunction is deep.

I think the President-elect has noticed though!

bidenblm.jpg

[NorTX-Dave]

Gallagher, Gary W. and Alan T. Nolan, eds. The Myth of the Lost Cause and Civil War History. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 2000.

Bonekemper III, Edward H. The Myth of the Lost Cause: Why the South fought the Civil War and why the North won. Washington: Regnery History, 2015.

Domby, Adam H. The False Cause: Fraud, Fabrication, and White Supremacy in Confederate Memory. Charlottesville, North Carolina: University of Virginia Press, 2020.

Bonekemper is a little hard to take, he was an attorney and his book is more of an indictment of the Confederacy than history.

Thanks. I've started wading through Pollard's "The Lost Cause: A New Southern History of the War of the Confederates" from 1866.

[davids]

And while I'm sharing tweets:

twittweets.jpg