Muller, Flynn, et al.

[thollandpe]

Yup, you're right. That's what I'd call an undue hardship. I think it's a tough line to walk when you're in a state like mine with millions of people who don't have the right to vote here, and it's wise to ensure only citizens are able to cast a vote. How to distinguish citizens from permanent residents or illegal aliens without ID, but how to get ID to every citizen? I sure can see the problem, but I'm damned if I know the answer.

Jasper, in the states that I have ever registered to vote I had to show ID to register, not to vote.

That's a key difference. Once I'm in the system all I have to do is show up at the polling place, tell the wonderful and always pleasant volunteer my name and address, and then use the machine or fill in the form. That system ensures I am a citizen, I am eligible, and that I do not vote more than once.

[choke]

This demonization of Russia (and Putin) reminds me of a quote by H.L. Mencken....."The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary".

[Cookietruck]

Jasper, in the states that I have ever registered to vote I had to show ID to register, not to vote.

That's a key difference. Once I'm in the system all I have to do is show up at the polling place, tell the wonderful and always pleasant volunteer my name and address, and then use the machine or fill in the form. That system ensures I am a citizen, I am eligible, and that I do not vote more than once.

exact same thing i was thinking.

[Saab2000]

Does Trump lie? Sure. But this article’s slant is undeniable. This article is exactly what I’ve been saying: The media goes out of it’s way to make Trump look like the devil, and does everything it can to make Obama look like an Angel.

Trump doesn't need the media to make him look like the devil.

Yes, the piece is slanted. Obama wasn't perfect. None of them is perfect. But Trump seems to make a mockery of everything this republic once stood for. I honestly would like to know why his supporters support him.

His rallies are deeply offensive with his bullying, mocking language often dismissing large chunks of the constitution just to get a laugh or a rise out of people.

[murphy]

I’m not going to waste my time looking up Obamas lies, but off the top of my head:

“I was always against Iraq”…but voted for going to war.

“we don’t spike the ball” talking about taking down Bin Laden, them proceeded to mention “I got Bin laden” every chance he could.

"Fast and Furious" began under the Bush…., um, no.

Isis was “contained” and a "JV team"… no need to explain that.

"We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas.”….oh really?

"The vast majority of the money I got was from small donors.’’….maybe Bernie, But Wall St and big business floated Barry.

“We’re going to lower your premiums by up to $2500 per family per year.”…I’m still waiting for my rates to go down.

He also publicly claimed he quit smoking, but insiders know (and a few photographs proved) he did not.


So that’s 8 additional ones off the top of my head, and the paper could only list 18?

Really, read that article, it reeks of “anti-Trump” from the first paragraph.
Does Trump lie? Sure. But this article’s slant is undeniable. This article is exactly what I’ve been saying: The media goes out of it’s way to make Trump look like the devil, and does everything it can to make Obama look like an Angel.

Not to beat a dead horse especially when there is an actual discussion for this exact article in OT, but at least two of the ones you mention are cited in the article.

Also he wasn't a senator when the Iraq war was voted on and did give a speech against the Iraq war.

[King Of Dirk]

Jasper, in the states that I have ever registered to vote I had to show ID to register, not to vote.

That's a key difference. Once I'm in the system all I have to do is show up at the polling place, tell the wonderful and always pleasant volunteer my name and address, and then use the machine or fill in the form. That system ensures I am a citizen, I am eligible, and that I do not vote more than once.

I'm for both - to register and to vote. Before we had the photo ID law in Texas I showed up on year to vote only to be told I'd already voted. I found that...disturbing. Like you, I've always found the volunteers to be very pleasant - I'm almost sad at how grateful they seem that anyone actually shows up to vote - and she walked me through the alternate ballot process, but what if I hadn't shown up that year? With motor voter laws, a lot of state have millions of registered voters who will never actually vote. That's a system ripe for abuse; just play the odds if you want to sway a close election. Look how close the Moore race was in AL this Tuesday. We all dodged a bullet there.

[Corso]

Not to beat a dead horse especially when there is an actual discussion for this exact article in OT, but at least two of the ones you mention are cited in the article.

Also he wasn't a senator when the Iraq war was voted on and did give a speech against the Iraq war.

But he voted to fund the war, didn’t he? ok, dead horse.

How about another horse then?

I wonder if the sexual harassment situation involving Mr Obama when he was president of the Harvard Law Review will NOW come to light, with the current climate of such things…even though there was a settlement from Harvard to the 2 accusers that includes a confidentiality agreement.

I’m not holding my breath.

[ides1056]

The NYTimes piece follows an OpEd in the Washington Post dealing with the cruelty of Trump's lies. We can all say politicans lie. But these lies tend to be to obscure facts. Trump's lies come part and parcel with a level of cruelty in putdowns that have not been present in modern politics. This is what should really worry people. Inside Trump, there is a real hateful individual with deep problems.

Before this administration came into office I knew that there are people who want more than others. This motivates them to get more. But now I realize that there are those who want others to have less, because this makes them feel better about themselves, and this is fundamentally anti-democratic and un-American. I live in a small town, where people look after others in need. Case in point: I went to give a donation to a local woman whose business was broken into recently. She refused, and insisted on giving me some food to take home. We were interrupted by two other neighbors who arrived with an envelope with donations from sixty other people. She could not say no. I think this administration is evil.

[jclay]

Obama also owned up to issues with the ACA and offered viable solutions for fixing those problems. Many states and significant blocks in Congress and the Senate refused to work with the Obama Administration and the Democrats to fix them.

Bing-effing-go.

There are always problems with new programs. And I don't think Obama lied about keeping your insurance; I think he screwed up. As noted above he and the Ds are trying to find solutions, even if still wed to the economic insanity of forcing the use of commodity insurance for a nation's health care.

Trump is evil. How halfway reasonable people can observe his behavior and think that he's anything but a cancerous hemorrhoid, never mind a fundamentally decent guy, is amazing.

Lots of the Republican senators and congressmen are also evil. They will rip this country apart if that's what it takes to jam their Little House on the Prairie vision of small government down our throats. Which countries with small governments, few social services and safety nets, would you care to live in? Clearly they don't give a damn about the health of our population or they wouldn't dream of ditching O-care before having a replacement figured out and ready to go live. Many of those guys were quite willing to go that route knowing millions would be without insurance. And now let's increase MIC spending, while fighting terrorism (by throwing gasoline on the fires, but never mind that), while having boots on the ground in something like 80 nations on any given day....and cut taxes. So much for the Party of Fiscal Responsibility. The plan, obviously if one's eyes and ears are open, is to cripple the federal budget so the Rs can realize their wet dream of killing Medicaid, Medicare and SS. And of course it doesn't stop there.

[Corso]

And I don't think Obama lied about keeping your insurance; I think he screwed up.

Trump is evil. How halfway reasonable people can observe his behavior and think that he's anything but a cancerous hemorrhoid, never mind a fundamentally decent guy, is amazing.

John, I’m glad you are putting it out there. You give Obama the benefit of the doubt (didn’t lie), even though John Gruber admitted they lied about Obama care in order to pass it, calling us “stupid” along the way.

And by your accord, Trump is evil…Maybe so, but why burn 4 years fighting and bitching vs trying to work through it?

My point on all of this: Until both sides are measured by the same standard, by the press and by all of us, this civil war between the parties will never go away. I absolutely hate it, hate it when either party votes solely for their side. And that’s what we’ve become.

I live in Massachusetts. I wish Senator Warren would actually do something for MY state, vs spending her time doing talk shows to attack Trump and being inflexible on anything the Right proposes. Counter productive.

[Cookietruck]

John, I’m glad you are putting it out there. You give Obama the benefit of the doubt (didn’t lie), even though John Gruber admitted they lied about Obama care in order to pass it, calling us “stupid” along the way.

And by your accord, Trump is evil…Maybe so, but why burn 4 years fighting and bitching vs trying to work through it?

My point on all of this: Until both sides are measured by the same standard, by the press and by all of us, this civil war between the parties will never go away. I absolutely hate it, hate it when either party votes solely for their side. And that’s what we’ve become.

I live in Massachusetts. I wish Senator Warren would actually do something for MY state, vs spending her time doing talk shows to attack Trump and being inflexible on anything the Right proposes. Counter productive.

it seems to me like one party is willing to work with the other (and even with trump) but the other party is more interested in passing bills through reconciliation and writing bills behind closed doors with no transparency.

[murphy]

And by your accord, Trump is evil…Maybe so, but why burn 4 years fighting and bitching vs trying to work through it?

Republicans spent 8 years fighting and bitching everything, so democrats would just be returning the favor, not that I am saying it is right..just karma.

[nahtnoj]

Getting back to the original point of this thread:

Report: CIA Captured Putin’s ‘Specific Instructions’ to Hack the 216 Election - The Daily Beast

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mueller...irm-1513296899

If your a conservative who is either naive enough or in denial enough to not see where this is headed...

Layer on top of this the WaPo story that the national security team can't present any information in the PDB that paints Russia in a negative light or Trump flies into a rage. The man is unfit, and has been a national security threat since the day he took office.

[ChristianWong]

And by your accord, Trump is evil…Maybe so, but why burn 4 years fighting and bitching vs trying to work through it?

Again, non-American chiming in here.

I would much rather fight for four years than work (read: compromise at some point in the process) with the current administration. There are so many decisions and stances that I am so deeply opposed to that I am not willing to compromise even in the slightest. I'm talking about the appointment of climate deniers to head the EPA, telecom cronies to run the FCC. Not to mention the conspiracy theorists, known racists, and the head cheese mocking women and the disabled at every turn.

If half the country the country can blindly refuse to work with one side at the mere thought of a gun-control discussion, surely I can refuse to work with this crew.

[Corso]

Again, non-American chiming in here.

I would much rather fight for four years than work (read: compromise at some point in the process) with the current administration. There are so many decisions and stances that I am so deeply opposed to that I am not willing to compromise even in the slightest. I'm talking about the appointment of climate deniers to head the EPA, telecom cronies to run the FCC. Not to mention the conspiracy theorists, known racists, and the head cheese mocking women and the disabled at every turn.

If half the country the country can blindly refuse to work with one side at the mere thought of a gun-control discussion, surely I can refuse to work with this crew.

And yet, my non-American amigo, he won the election. It was not a military coup, he won in a free election in the greatest country in the world.

Ever stop the labeling and wonder why? I mean, really wonder why he won?

[HorsCat]

And yet, my non-American amigo, he won the election. It was not a military coup, he won in a free election in the greatest country in the world.

Ever stop the labeling and wonder why? I mean, really wonder why he won?

In point of fact, he only sort of won the election. In a sense, he won by default. If you recall, he lost the popular vote by a tally of around 3,000,000.

As for why President Fucking Moron won, there are numerous probable reasons, the totality of which = black swan event. The cost to the nation (and the world) will be immeasurabe.

Edited to add - Trump is an evil, mendacious, vindictive, narcissistic, ignorant, completely self interested, totally deluded, ethically hollow know-nothing bloward lying scumbag who is completely devoid of honor, integrity, empathy and civility. You are free to overlook this if you support the broader 'initiatives' of his 'administration' but let's at least be honest about who and what the man is.

[ChristianWong]

And yet, my non-American amigo, he won the election. It was not a military coup, he won in a free election in the greatest country in the world.

Ever stop the labeling and wonder why? I mean, really wonder why he won?

My labeling = calling a spade a spade. I'm not sure I can agree with your label of greatest country in the world but 'Best Country' probably warrants its own thread.

I think it's pretty clear that the reasons Trump won are abundant and varied. From my perspective, the major contributors were a seriously flawed opponent and an incredible ability to use fear and anger to strike a chord with a good chunk of the population. Note that I didn't mention Russia.

[colker]

Before this administration came into office I knew that there are people who want more than others. This motivates them to get more. But now I realize that there are those who want others to have less, because this makes them feel better about themselves, and this is fundamentally anti-democratic and un-American. I live in a small town, where people look after others in need. Case in point: I went to give a donation to a local woman whose business was broken into recently. She refused, and insisted on giving me some food to take home. We were interrupted by two other neighbors who arrived with an envelope with donations from sixty other people. She could not say no. I think this administration is evil.

It´s this kind of thing that makes everything else less important imo.

Maybe our (even not being american i am part of the global economics) system has a scale problem right now and i believe it´s a problem already being sorted out by technology. Here it is: big cities are a bad idea or at least a good idea gone wrong. Big cities teach us to be cynical and relativize the suffering of others. There is always gonna be another homeless so stop caring.. it´s the idea you get from living in a big city. The big city is not a capitalist novelty: the mexicans lived like that during their pre hispanic empires. Commerce pushed the big city living.
Now the internet makes possible to live in small, medium cities and still be connected. I believe bringing down the scale of our urban landscape is the way of democracy to survive, based on empathy and humanism. Imigration is not the issue bringing down western humanism... problem lies in big city living.

[ChristianWong]

In point of fact, he only sort of won the election. In a sense, he won by default.

I think it's pretty cut and dry that he won the election, forget the technicalities or default arguments.

[HorsCat]

I think it's pretty cut and dry that he won the election, forget the technicalities or default arguments.

Ahem, he won on a technicality. In case it isn't clear - I'm not disputing that he 'won.'