Dearest friends across the pond. Can we talk about VAT?

[Too Tall]

I am among other things a small merchant who, prior to Brexit, shipped small value items to the UK. Briefly, post-Brexit I'm assigned the unpleasant requirement to collect 20%. This seems like a bridge too far considering total cost including shipping. Were I to require all UK sales to meet a minimum of £135 in value, this will circumvent any requirement to collect VAT. Again, a bridge too far.

Dear UK, I hate this. Right?

[Will Neide]

I am among other things a small merchant who, prior to Brexit, shipped small value items to the UK. Briefly, post-Brexit I'm assigned the unpleasant requirement to collect 20%. This seems like a bridge too far considering total cost including shipping. Were I to require all UK sales to meet a minimum of £135 in value, this will circumvent any requirement to collect VAT. Again, a bridge too far.

Dear UK, I hate this. Right?

Does it matter which shipper you use?

I know Canada is a pain and some shippers make it easier than others.

[Too Tall]

Does it matter which shipper you use?

I know Canada is a pain and some shippers make it easier than others.

It does not. FWIIW (knock on wood) shipping to Canada is expensive but not a problem.

[holliscx]

I used to buy bike incidentals in the UK and shipping to Spain (and returns) was a layup. But post-Brexit the option doesn't exist for shipping is astronomical. I also noticed the price of bird dogs has skyrocketed in the UK due to the virus. Someone quote 3k pounds for a field Labrador recently. Field Labs with the same bloodlines go for half of that in the States. The breeder I talked to said it's insane but he doesn't think the bubble will last, so this may be related like a desperation cry or something. I don't see how Britain will maintain a foothold in Europe. I expect things will change eventually but right now from my perspective it looks like they've shot themselves in the foot. Even looking for a burr grinder recently across the board I had to eliminate the UK as a purchasing option.

[j44ke]

I keep seeing on various e-tailer websites "sorry no UK shipments". So you are not alone TT.

[Scott G.]

Clear as the Thames.....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-...e-marketplaces


Across the pond and the hall, a very long thread, much heat, some light.
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopi...2589&start=390

[9tubes]

[UK website:]

"Where those goods are sold through an online marketplace, the online marketplace will be liable for the VAT..."

"To charge and account for VAT the online marketplace will need to:

- know the precise nature of the goods to find out the correct rate of VAT to charge

- register for VAT

- keep records of the goods sold, and make sure they get accurate information to apply the correct VAT treatment to the goods"

I have only limited knowledge of VAT taxes in various countries. Can someone explain this to me? The country of the UK is charging a foreign company VAT on shipments into the UK? How is that possible? A country has no legal jurisdiction over a foreign company or person. I thought that is why countries charge import duties that are levied on and payable by the buyer.

[Too Tall]

[UK website:]

"Where those goods are sold through an online marketplace, the online marketplace will be liable for the VAT..."

"To charge and account for VAT the online marketplace will need to:

- know the precise nature of the goods to find out the correct rate of VAT to charge

- register for VAT

- keep records of the goods sold, and make sure they get accurate information to apply the correct VAT treatment to the goods"

I have only limited knowledge of VAT taxes in various countries. Can someone explain this to me? The country of the UK is charging a foreign company VAT on shipments into the UK? How is that possible? A country has no legal jurisdiction over a foreign company or person. I thought that is why countries charge import duties that are levied on and payable by the buyer.

What you said..."levied on the buyer" seems to be the leverage point which makes it hard for low buck sales.

I'm not complaining, that would be silly after the fact. I'm looking for "by the book" ways to make low dollar sales to the UK without having to...register with the UK, collect VAT, tally my collections, render VAT AND balance any discrepancies.

Tis indeed asking alot from small businesses.

The ONLY thing that pops up and could work would be to ask UK buyers to gather round the hearth and agree with friends to buy enough to surpass USA VAT collection thus pushing VAT collection back to UK authorities. As said before the amount needed to pass threshold is less than $200.

Is this particular pickle, small sales, ment to create new business enterprise within the UK I wonder?

[vertical_doug]

[UK website:]

"Where those goods are sold through an online marketplace, the online marketplace will be liable for the VAT..."

"To charge and account for VAT the online marketplace will need to:

- know the precise nature of the goods to find out the correct rate of VAT to charge

- register for VAT

- keep records of the goods sold, and make sure they get accurate information to apply the correct VAT treatment to the goods"

I have only limited knowledge of VAT taxes in various countries. Can someone explain this to me? The country of the UK is charging a foreign company VAT on shipments into the UK? How is that possible? A country has no legal jurisdiction over a foreign company or person. I thought that is why countries charge import duties that are levied on and payable by the buyer.

The UK is not charging the foreign company VAT, the UK VAT is on top of the price the customer pays and a merchant is legally reguired to collect it from the customers to be in compliance.

[Too Tall]

The UK is not charging the foreign company VAT, the UK VAT is on top of the price the customer pays and a merchant is legally reguired to collect it from the customers to be in compliance.

What he said. I am compelled to collect VAT so that the customer does not have to.

Oh joy.

[vertical_doug]

What he said. I am compelled to collect VAT so that the customer does not have to.

Oh joy.

The Brits still tend to drink too much at lunch and it seems they write laws in the afternoon.

[BBB]

What he said. I am compelled to collect VAT so that the customer does not have to.

Oh joy.

And in return charge a commission for doing their tax collection for them that is equal to the amount collected!

[j44ke]

This cannot be accurate. There is no way that a foreign business has to collect taxes on sales to British citizens. What treaty controls this arrangement? UK cannot assign this task to the seller unilaterally.

edit: My wife, who knows these things, says that Josh would have to collect VAT on sales to British citizens. So my incredulity is not merited.

Did this just start with Brexit or has it always been the case? If the later, all those broken hot plates I sold to little old ladies in Manchester in the winter of 2011 are going to get me in trouble.

[Too Tall]

This cannot be accurate. There is no way that a foreign business has to collect taxes on sales to British citizens. What treaty controls this arrangement? UK cannot assign this task to the seller unilaterally.

edit: My wife, who knows these things, says that Josh would have to collect VAT on sales to British citizens. So my incredulity is not merited.

Did this just start with Brexit or has it always been the case? If the later, all those broken hot plates I sold to little old ladies in Manchester in the winter of 2011 are going to get me in trouble.

These are new requirements with full Brexit.

Yeah rah

PS Dear England, I'm sorry. We will figure this out.

[Will Neide]

thumb_england-colour-america-color-england-humour-america-humor-england-flavour-52808638.png

[vertical_doug]

These are new requirements with full Brexit.

Yeah rah

PS Dear England, I'm sorry. We will figure this out.

I thought you were selling cooking oil or is it butter.

That is zero rated vat.

But I did not understand how selling more than 135 will circumvent the need to collect VAT? I understand VAT as a flat 20% for most products. In the UK you don't add VAT at time of sale, it is included in price, so on your website if the person is visiting from the UK just display everything at Px1.2 I would think this is an issue for Amazon/other vendors and they must have a way to handle this already.




All you need to do

[kdawg]

This cannot be accurate. There is no way that a foreign business has to collect taxes on sales to British citizens. What treaty controls this arrangement? UK cannot assign this task to the seller unilaterally.

edit: My wife, who knows these things, says that Josh would have to collect VAT on sales to British citizens. So my incredulity is not merited.

Did this just start with Brexit or has it always been the case? If the later, all those broken hot plates I sold to little old ladies in Manchester in the winter of 2011 are going to get me in trouble.

It seems to have just started - previously I've bought stuff from the US and you got a bill from the courier to pay before they deliver it - usually e.g. VAT of £10, duty of something and a fee of about £20 for the privilege - and it can really push the price of some stuff up.

Before Brexit obviously that didn't apply to Europe but now it does - and as a few of you are saying it is common now for the seller to take the payment - and it appears that they're applying the same rule to everyone.

The advantage to the buyer is that they don't get charged the fee - just the tax - and it just gets delivered rather than having to pay something. The problem for the seller is the admin of all that. That will be why many companies just stopped delivering.

Thanks Boris! Not like it was an obvious consequence or anything...

Weirdly when I bought some new bike shoes a few months ago the price jumped down once delivery was selected - they appeared to take the Spanish tax off, but then I got a bill from the courier as above before they would deliver.

[Scott G.]

These are new requirements with full Brexit.

Yeah rah

PS Dear England, I'm sorry. We will figure this out.

You must petition the Duke of Norfolk, to become a bailiff of the Cinque Ports,
then you'll have the right of writ and transport, and hence exempt from the VAT.
In exchange for this you will owe the Duke of Norfolk three men at arms in case of war with France.

[j44ke]

But on the bright side, everyone in the UK is pretty happy about all this, right? What with finally getting out from under the repressive control of Helmut Kohl and Valéry Giscard d'Estaing and all.

[Too Tall]

I thought you were selling cooking oil or is it butter.

That is zero rated vat.

But I did not understand how selling more than 135 will circumvent the need to collect VAT? I understand VAT as a flat 20% for most products. In the UK you don't add VAT at time of sale, it is included in price, so on your website if the person is visiting from the UK just display everything at Px1.2 I would think this is an issue for Amazon/other vendors and they must have a way to handle this already.




All you need to do

Butter. Hmmm.

These are the new rules which I am directed to follow. In details here is a link: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...1-january-2021

In summary:
VAT will be collected on ALL low-value orders shipped to the UK.

All businesses must collect the 20% VAT at point of sale for orders less than £135 in value. The £135 threshold is based on the intrinsic value of the goods, which excludes transport, insurance or other import taxes, if separately itemized.

For orders over £135 (or consignments of multiple goods with a combined value greater than £135), VAT will still be paid at the time of import with duty.