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Thread: Suit buying advice from a butler.

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    Default Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Just posted this elsewhere. I know it'll come up eventually over here, so I figured I'd just go ahead and lay it out there.



    When buying a suit jacket, the first consideration should be how the suit fits in the shoulders. There should only be light padding in the shoulders, and the suit shoulders should not extend past your actual shoulders. Most people get sold suits a little too big in the shoulders, and wind up looking either like they are wearing their father's suit, or like David Byrne in the "Once in a Lifetime" video.

    Second consideration in a suit jacket is the length. Quick fitting trick: Drop your arms to your side, curl your hands into the GI Joe Kung Fu Grip position. Your fingertips should just brush the bottom of your suit jacket.

    You have a choice of notch or peak-style lapels. If you only have one suit, make it notch lapels.

    A center vent in the back of the jacket is very american. A double vented jacket is more euro.

    Have a tailor take in the back of the jacket to hug the contours of your body. With the top button done, you should not be able to get a fist between your body and the jacket. Two or three fingers from your body is the correct amount. Some tailors will argue that this is too tight, as you cannot raise both hand above your head when the jacket is buttoned. When will you ever be raising both hands above your head with the jacket buttoned? A gentleman never high-fives.

    Suit pants should not be pleated. Besides disturbing the clean lines of a suit, they add weight to the midsection and make it appear as if you've taken a dump in your pants. Disagree? Ask ANY woman. Some men will argue this to the death and defend pleats. These are the same men who are convinced that no one notices its a comb-over.

    Pant leg break is dependent on your height. Shorter people should have no break in the pant leg; this makes them appear to be taller. Taller people can get away with a 1" break MAXIMUM, and only if they are concerned they appear to be too tall. No break in the pant leg is the best look for a modern cut suit. Generally, you should not have cuffs on the pant leg. If you super tall, a 1" cuff will bring you back down to earth.

    On a two button suit, only button the top button. Undo it when you sit, re-button when you stand. This action should become muscle memory.

    A three-button suit should have a slight roll to the lapel over the top button, almost giving it a two-button appearance. Just button the middle button. This is the only acceptable way to wear a three-button suit.

    Shirt and ties are make or break. A modern cut button-up shirt is essential. Notice how everyone else's shirts seem to billow and flow around their midsections, regardless of their weight? A modern slim cut shirt is best for most people. Your best affordable options here are J Crew, H&M, and Brooks Brothers. The shape of your shirt's collar should compliment the shape of your face. I'm a fan of semi-spread collars for most people.

    With your arms to your sides, your shirt cuffs should just clear the wrist bones. Have your tailor make the suit jacket cuffs cut slightly above that. 1/4" of shirt cuff is the perfect amount of exposure. If you wear a watch, the cuff length should show half of the watch face; no more, no less.

    Remember, dark suit, light shirt, dark tie. Never stray. This is pretty much irresistible to women. Think Clooney.

    "Button down" refers to the button on a shirt's collar. For a bit of style and a rakish look, leave one unbuttoned. If all other details of the suit are perfect, this gives the appearance that you are not trying too hard. Women look for flaws (they call them quirks) about a man that they find endearing. This is a good one. If someone mentions it, say thank you, but don't "fix" it.

    The tie should be cut to compliment the lapels. Slimmer lapels call for slimmer-cut ties. J Crew sells ties the perfect width. If you find a tie you like that is wider, you can have a tailor make it slimmer, but not vice versa. The tie knot should compliment the collar or the shirt. Windsor knots suggest you are a bit of a perfectionist. If all the other details of your suit are right on, a four-in-hand knot is the way to go. Its asymmetrical shape says you look good without trying too hard. The tip of your tie should just reach yor belt buckle; well, where your belt buckle would be since you are not wearing a belt.

    Shoes. Cap-toe, wingtip, monk strap. No square toes; you're an adult, not going to your prom. Shine your shoes once a week. This is not a task, it is one of the simple pleasures in life. Brush the dirt off of your shoes. With a lint-free rag, coat your shoe in polish. Set it aside and move on to the other shoe to do the same. Brush the polish in short, fast strokes. Finish by buffing with a rag. Edge dressing around the soles. Alternate between polish and cream for maximum shoe life.

    Get shoe lasts. Put them in as soon as you take your shoes off. The leather will still be moist from wearing the shoe. It will conform to the last and the shoe will keep its shape. If the shoes are not in use daily, you can remove the lasts after 24 hours to use in other shoes. Cedar lasts are a good way to fight foot odor.

    Generally, socks should be a shade lighter than the shoes. If you've done your due diligence, and stuck with the dark suit- light shirt- dark tie, you can get away with showing personality with your socks by showing a bit of color.

    Hang your suit up as soon as you take it off. Decent wood hangars with a shoulder for the jacket. (The following is a butler trick) Rather than hanging the pants folded at the knee, use a hanger with clips. Clip both cuffs of the pant leg and let the pants hang upside down. The weight of the pant will take out any wrinkles, and pressing before each time you wear them will not be necessary.

    A few years ago, men started to wear pocket squares again. This made them look distinguished. Now (like the windsor knot) it is a detail that too many people have adopted, making the wearer indistinguishable. Skip the pocket square and opt for a simple stainless steel or sterling silver tie bar.

    Lather, rinse,repeat.
    Got some cash
    Bought some wheels
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    Hit a wall
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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Generally I agree with all of this. The whole "leave one button open on the collar" thing is just silly. A proper suit shirt does not have button collars. It has collar stays. Button collar shirts are fine with sport coats and chinos or jeans but not with a suit.

    If you wear a two button suit, top button only. Three button suit: middle button or top and middle. A four button suit means you are either a sports announcer or a talk show host on the WB so all bets are off.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Center vents, button-down collars, and wingtip shoes are all american styling. While originally casual clothing, they have become acceptable to wear with a suit.

    No, the "leave one button open on the collar" isn't for everyone. But don't tell Thom Browne that.
    Got some cash
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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    It would be one heck of alot easier to bring you along with me than cook you dinner, get you drunk?

    I'm not wrong about this.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasea View Post
    No, the "leave one button open on the collar" isn't for everyone. But don't tell Thom Browne that.
    A certain type of person, the Brownes, Clooneys, Pitts of the world, can get away with things like this and people will remark about how aloof they are about their appearance and that it just comes natural to them to look good. But for the remaining mere mortals of the world (i.e. you, me, and the unwashed masses) when we try to pull that off people just mutter under their breath, "the idiot forgot to look in the mirror before he left the house".

    I believe the trick is to have your suit say nothing about you. Cancel out that variable in the equation and force people to focus on the substance of what you say or do and not gaze at your goddamn pocket square.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    stripes on ties should always descend from the heart.
    that's my only fashion fetish going back to my peddie years atmo.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    I'm no expert, but most of this seems like good advice. I'm currently breaking into the suit wearing world and I have a new suit purchase on the horizon. I only have one now and it was my first since my Bar Mitzva. I can't help but feel like I didn't get the attention and guidance from the people at Macy's that I wanted/deserved. Pretty sure my jacket is too big in the shoulders and around the gut. I suppose the back can be taken in, but I think I'm stuck with shoulders a hair to big. My cyclist build just isn't filling them out. I'm young, younger than most of the people I work with seem to remember, which is great for me since I am feeling good about the impressions I'm making and the trust they are putting in me. I've got some good formal ensembles which fall short of wearing a jacket that I feel are hip yet distinguishable and which I am very pleased with, but I feel like I'm just screaming "INTERN!" w/o a suit on most days. I need to find something that continues to cast me in a more mature light, but does not make it seem like I raided my grandpa's closet.

    I've noticed that a lot of the folks here are no stranger to formal attire. And I very much appreciate that, across the board, everyone here seems to appreciate the finer things. So rock on, you suit wearing people. May we all look as good in a $1k cycling ensemble as we do in a $1k formal ensemble. Actually, we should probably look better in a suit....

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    I'm so happy I wear a uniform to work.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Reading this brought back memories of my dad. He was a retired Col. in the Army and quite a stickler on dress. All of your advice was drummed into me at an early age. None of it stuck as I am mostly jeans and boat shoe these days. I did, however buy a suit last year and I awear my dad was whispering in my ear the whole time about sleeve and pants break.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbeNP View Post
    I'm no expert, but most of this seems like good advice. I'm currently breaking into the suit wearing world and I have a new suit purchase on the horizon. I only have one now and it was my first since my Bar Mitzva. I can't help but feel like I didn't get the attention and guidance from the people at Macy's that I wanted/deserved. Pretty sure my jacket is too big in the shoulders and around the gut. I suppose the back can be taken in, but I think I'm stuck with shoulders a hair to big.
    Growing up, the family tailor was a gentleman from Hungary who worked for Ungaro back when they didn’t suck. Before allowing me to purchase anything, he measured me and gave specific instructions on what to buy. 20 years later, those instructions still work just about perfect but for the waist size. An example of the kind of instructions he gave: I am 5’7” but wear a 42 blazer. Most people who wear a 42 are taller than me. A “regular” jacket puts the hip pockets in the wrong place. I purchase a 42S (short) and the hip pockets are in the right place. Its an easy mistake to make when purchasing, easily avoidable, but a cluster fcuk to fix.

    When I did the post college getting ready for work shopping spree, even following his purchase instructions he rejected multiple suits for various reasons. Items didn’t have the right internal pieces, the wool looked good but he didn’t think it would last over the years, another item he didn’t think would hang properly and would require constant pressing etc. etc.

    Before the next shopping trip, find a tailor and get your measurements / instructions. Try on everything you purchase for the tailor. If he likes it, have him finish it for you. If he doesn’t like it, return the beast no matter how good the sale or what you think of it.

    Find a good one and then trust your tailor.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    I concur with everything except the part about pleated pants. I've yet to put on a pair of flat front suit pants that weren't cut for some guy with no ass and stick legs. If I wear flat front pants they resemble girl jeans much more so than gentlemanly attire.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    I'm so happy I wear a uniform to work.
    I couldn't agree more. Especially now that its shorts and a t-shirt in the summer.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Chase,

    Awesome advice, although as mentioned above, I take issue with the unbuttoned collar tip. To me, it says I'm trying to hard, and the acknowledgment of asymmetry and refusal to fix it exudes a certain smugness that I personally find off-putting.

    Also, I am surprised at your mention of J. Crew. Do you find their suiting to be of acceptable quality? Quite frankly, the casual clothing that I have from them is crap.

    Another point worth noting - bespoke suits, or semi-bespoke, can be much, much more accessible than you'd realize. I have one semi-bespoke suit. I say semi-bespoke, as it was made to order from my measurements, but a full pattern was not made. It is made with 150 thread count Lanificio fabric by a suiting shop in Bangkok, owned by a gentleman who travels to North America twice a year to do fittings. He will not make you a suit if he hasn't measured you himself. I have Google-mapped his shop's address, and they are right in the middle of downtown. I get the sense that the tailors there are paid a living wage. There is not a day that I wear it to work that someone doesn't compliment me on it. Yes, usually females, although the more style-conscious head honchos around here notice as well. I believe I paid sub-$500 for it. He will be here in the coming months on a North American tour, and if anyone is interested, please feel free to PM me.

    Final note - invest in a worsted wool bespoke navy blazer. Single vent, two-button, muted brass buttons. It will be the most versatile item of clothing in your closet.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieBirdsell View Post
    Chase,

    Awesome advice, although as mentioned above, I take issue with the unbuttoned collar tip. To me, it says I'm trying to hard, and the acknowledgment of asymmetry and refusal to fit it exudes a certain smugness that I personally find off-putting.
    Only seems that way because you know its intentional. Again not for everyone. If it were for everyone, I'd probably button both of mine.

    As for asymmetry, it is sometimes the best way to keep a perfectly tailored outfit grounded. There are many ways to appear to be trying too hard. If everything is absolutely perfect, does that result in a man who looks comfortable in a suit? You should wear the suit, not the other way around.

    My opinion.
    Got some cash
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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    I'm so happy I wear a uniform to work.
    My work uniform:

    White shirt, black tie, pinstripe pants, vest, morning coat, black socks, black cap-toes (polished), white gloves.
    Got some cash
    Bought some wheels
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    'Cross the fields
    Lost Control
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    But we're alright

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post

    I believe the trick is to have your suit say nothing about you. Cancel out that variable in the equation and force people to focus on the substance of what you say or do and not gaze at your goddamn pocket square.
    I disagree here. I think a suit should say something. It should say "This man knows how to wear a suit. This man looks comfortable in his suit."
    Got some cash
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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    i wear this every day. sometimes with a pair of alden cordovan's--but only if it's really important...



    (while some of you think i'm joking, my wife will assure you i'm not...)

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by nahtnoj View Post
    I concur with everything except the part about pleated pants. I've yet to put on a pair of flat front suit pants that weren't cut for some guy with no ass and stick legs. If I wear flat front pants they resemble girl jeans much more so than gentlemanly attire.
    Jonathan, many Hugo Boss suits feature pants with a single pleat. So you can avoid Chase's colorful description about how you look if you wear pants with two pleats as well as your concern about flat front pants.

    Chase, I don't agree that the only way to wear a three-button suit jacket is to button only the middle button. It's also perfectly acceptable to button the middle and top buttons. But never the bottom one.

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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    Quote Originally Posted by nahtnoj View Post
    I concur with everything except the part about pleated pants. I've yet to put on a pair of flat front suit pants that weren't cut for some guy with no ass and stick legs. If I wear flat front pants they resemble girl jeans much more so than gentlemanly attire.
    I wear flat front pants, and I have quite the dumper. Ask my girlfriend, who would describe me as "someone who has a problem with authority and the ass of Jennifer Lopez."
    Got some cash
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    'Cross the fields
    Lost Control
    Hit a wall
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    Default Re: Suit buying advice from a butler.

    hey i re-read something in there.....who the hell wears a suit with no belt?

    that sounds (and looks) ridiculous.

    i (and the world) would be staring at my superman underoos if no muffin top suspension device was in place.

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