Rowing Machines?

[caleb]

My wife would like a rowing machine. Come next winter, I may, too.

I know there are some rowers here, and I hope you can fill me in.

It seems that in addition to the classic Erg, there's now a crop of connected rowers out there, including:

Hydrow

Ergatta

And maybe the Peloton rowing machine

Any thoughts or reviews?

[Drew]

I tried Concept2 and Waterrower in person. Concept2, hands down. I've had it for about 18 months and it's great. I have a skierg as well, also great. The Concept2 "ecosystem" goes into Garmin pretty well, and the Concept2 tracking website also is pretty good. It's cool to be able to see how you stack up against others around the globe.

[Mabouya]

I agree with Drew 100% - C2 is the way to go. It really is the gold standard when it comes to rowers. Super-reliable, connectable to ErgData if you want to break your workout down to a stroke by stroke level, or, the PM alone can give you plenty of good feedback by itself. (e.g. the Force Curve display will help diagnose glitches in your technique, which is helpful to newbies, because getting your technique right is probably the single most important thing when one is learning to use the rower) It will give you years and years of use with nothing more than a 15 second wipe-down of the seat rail, and an occasional application of oil on the chain.

The only reason to consider, say, a Waterrower, would be if you value aesthetics far more than functionality, since the wood frame could potentially fit it better in some settings. But for everything else, there's little question that a C2 is the way to go.

One final thing, I find that rowing inside is not nearly as mind-numbingly boring as cycling inside. And 30 minutes will give you a great, full-body workout.

Edit: Wait, wait, that's not all - C2 also has a fairly active forum where you can get lots of helpful advice and suggestions. It's definitely helped me.

[Too Tall]

C2 and done. They are the best hands down. If you want to score one almost new look for regional "Crash B" events ( https://www.crash-b.org/ ) where you can purchase machines used for one weekend.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Concept 2 story: My early 1990s rower’s head unit was ruined by a battery leak. Amazingly, the new head unit is completely compatible with the decades old mount and electronics.

They rock.

[davids]

Concept 2, hands down. Mine is probably 10 or so years old and has been utterly problem-free.

[Drew]

Worth mentioning... You can do real damage, real quick, if the technique isn’t there. Definitely doable with YouTube on your own… but if you can find a coach, probably worth it. Also somebody else mentioned the C2 forum - they’re super helpful - I’ve seen people post videos of themselves rowing and get help that way.

[robin3mj]

Ad nauseum, but we have a c2 and no regrets.

[caleb]

Thanks for all the Concept2 recs. It's great to know there's a consensus choice.
@Too Tall it looks like the Crash B events are all still virtual. There's a "like new" Pandemic Era Concept 2 on my local Craig's List for $700, but they're only $900 with a warranty direct from the manufacturer. Is this the sort of machine where a warranty is worth $200?

@Drew thanks for the note on technique. I'll be sure to watch some videos. My ultimate goal is to row on the water through our local citizen's club. However, they require a class to start, and they've been absolutely swamped since the start of Covid. Hopefully I'll be able to get out through them eventually.

[Markco]

The ski Erg is also an excellent addition that compliments indoor riding. uses the same resistance scheme and controller.

[cp43]

I also recommend Concept 2. Their customer service is very responsive. Including to questions about training and technique.

Chris

[Too Tall]

Caleb, if the goal is rowing on the water you'll want to start with correct form.
There are good videos on youtube. This is ok >>

[JoB]

They are pretty bomb proof in my experience. $200 isn't nothing.

BTW their erg software allows a pretty smooth upload to Strava if you're into that sort of thing. and if you're into numbers, there's plenty of records by weight, gender, and age to compare yourself to.

Thanks for all the Concept2 recs. It's great to know there's a consensus choice.
@Too Tall it looks like the Crash B events are all still virtual. There's a "like new" Pandemic Era Concept 2 on my local Craig's List for $700, but they're only $900 with a warranty direct from the manufacturer. Is this the sort of machine where a warranty is worth $200?

@Drew thanks for the note on technique. I'll be sure to watch some videos. My ultimate goal is to row on the water through our local citizen's club. However, they require a class to start, and they've been absolutely swamped since the start of Covid. Hopefully I'll be able to get out through them eventually.

[stefthehat]

C2 all the way,i work in an elite rowing program and they can handle hours of use daily,they can be maintained at home as well ,I know they’ve smoothed the aesthetics over the generations but they still look like a mean tool not something out of world of interiors and as an aside respect to them over the years for pretty early adoption of newer technologies ,years ago its was so useful to be able to wear a polar strap and see hr on screen and again many moons ago it was heartening to see the vets[masters] in my old club reconnect to their old crewmates around the world and once a week do an erg ‘alongside’ each other even though they were in vastly different time zones,ditto above comments on technique ,makes a huge difference so use any resources you can also if you know anyone that’s rowed above novice level they could physically watch and critique and if need swap places to physically show any technical changes,often the technical changes are relatively simple[sequencing]but utterly fundamental to both injury prevention and the ability to efficiently /effectively do your new exercise to the best of your ability ,depending on what effort/timespan you put into your sessions it’s a phenomenal workout,off the top of my head I’ve now forgotten all the numbers but bike turbo/road ride equivalent of a 5k collapse at the end ergo was hours of riding again further to an above comment an erg is rarely boring it usually requires a lot of concentration as well as effort to maintain the numbers on the screen any drifting in thoughts might centre around the wish you could suck oxygen into your body through every orifice and pore,do try and get out on the water with a club even if just for the experience of it ,keep turning all wheels !

[davids]

Worth mentioning... You can do real damage, real quick, if the technique isn’t there. Definitely doable with YouTube on your own… but if you can find a coach, probably worth it. Also somebody else mentioned the C2 forum - they’re super helpful - I’ve seen people post videos of themselves rowing and get help that way.

This is why I raised a coxswain.

[Mabouya]

There's a "like new" Pandemic Era Concept 2 on my local Craig's List for $700, but they're only $900 with a warranty direct from the manufacturer. Is this the sort of machine where a warranty is worth $200?

This is a tough decision. A while back, in the middle of the pandemic, "like new" ergs were going for well over list because the C2 wait list was so long and gyms were all closed. The thing is, the vast majority of folks never need the warranty because the rowers are so reliable it's highly unusual to have any issues. On the other hand, $200 more for a brand new one really isn't a whole lot of money. I'm guessing that if you decide to go for the CL erg, the by time you call them it will be gone, so that will take care of that.

Here's what I would consider doing: If it's still available go take a look. You can check the "lifetime meters" on the PM (on newer PM5's the odometer doesn't ever reset, and I'm pretty sure that a "pandemic era" PM5 falls into that category) to see how much use it's gotten, and check out the overall condition. For example, over time the seat rollers eventually start to leave tracks on the edge of the rail (discoloration / stains, not physical indentations). If there are none, or very light ones that's a sure sign that it hasn't been used much. Same thing about the upper seat rollers themselves. A recent erg won't have any issues with the bungee cord getting slack, so that won't be a problem. If everything checks out, then I'd strongly consider buying it. If anything's shady or strange, just say "I'm going to have to think about it / talk to my wife. Sell it if you get any decent offers" and go home to order a new one from C2.

Good Luck

[kdawg]

Caleb, if the goal is rowing on the water you'll want to start with correct form.
There are good videos on youtube. This is ok >>

I used to row a bit in the gym and there was a girl who seemed to like going when I went - she was always there. She basically did the opposite of that - arms in, knees bent to arms out, legs straightish -she would thrash away on the thing for 45 minutes moving about 3" every stroke. Drove me crazy!

[Mabouya]

I used to row a bit in the gym and there was a girl who seemed to like going when I went - she was always there. She basically did the opposite of that - arms in, knees bent to arms out, legs straightish -she would thrash away on the thing for 45 minutes moving about 3" every stroke. Drove me crazy!

My pet peeve is when I look at the PM memory and find that the previous user averaged a 3:30 min / 500m pace for about 10 minutes, at a stroke rate of 32 spm, all with the damper lever set at "10." I'm not terribly fast compared to serious rowers, so I shouldn't be one to talk, but I know what the indications of horrible technique are, and a 3:30 pace @ 32 spm is the most obvious of all red flags. (to say nothing of the damper setting)

[RichTheRoadie]

This conversation has piqued my interest - I was about to reconsider attempting yet another go at getting into indoor cycling, despite knowing that I hate it, because the rain in Sydney Just. Won't. Let. Up.

At least I know I don't mind rowers so much (I used to use them a lot in the gym) and it's a bit more of an all-round workout; plus my wife would probably use it too - in fact she said it was a good idea and we should look into what's available secondhand.

There's a WaterRower going for quite a good price locally (AU$750, possibly with a bit of haggle room, Vs AU$2400 new). The cheapest C2 locally is AU$850, but most seem to be AU$1300+.

A WaterRower might be able to fit somewhere inside the house so the aesthetics appeal, whereas a C2 would definitely be confined to the garage. Is there any reason not to get a WR (as long as it's in good condition)?

[Mabouya]

Is there any reason not to get a WR (as long as it's in good condition)?

IMO the single biggest technical & performance difference is that the C2 ergs have a more sophisticated way of calculating the work done and your pace. (it's based on the drag, measured during the spin-down of the flywheel). The C2 air-drag also gives you a smoother increase at high power levels, whereas folks say that with the WR you "hit a wall" and just can't do any more. (If you Google "concept 2 rower vs water rower" there are quite a few comparisons online, some of which discuss this.) In general the C2 PM is a better, more capable unit than the WR.

Bottom line, based on what I've read, for casual users who don't prioritize "serious athlete" factors, and are more interested in aesthetics and noise level, the WR is fine, but if you want to push yourself and demand more from the machine, the C2 is almost certainly the way to go.

Caveat: I've never used a WaterRower