Espresso Machine/Grinder

[Drew]

I got a little more coin than expected for my bonus this year... apparently I've been a good boy.

I am exploring a new espresso machine. Currently I go to local coffee haus for anything espresso based, and I just use a good old Mr Coffee at home. I am familiar with operating a "semi-auto" machine, ie, fill the filter, pack it, plop it in the machine, mash the button. I can run a steam wand. I need a grinder...

I have been looking at Gaggia, DeLonghi, Saeco (looks like they got bought by Phillips???), etc... open to spending a few hundo but don't want to break into 4 figures on a super auto. Frankly, I am scared of the super autos... to much stuff that can break. I am leaning toward a semi-auto machine with a steam wand, and a grinder.

What's the hot lick these days? Just looking for some first hand experience and advice. And I don't see any recent coffee threads :)

Thanks

Drew

[j44ke]

Our last Superautomatic lasted 8 years? A Delonghi. And it is still going actually (we gave it to friends who dragged it out to their cabin in the woods of Pennsylvania where it would not disturb anyone,) just that the belts and cogs that retract and extend the brew group within the machine sound like construction equipment so we replaced it with another Delonghi that is very very quiet. ESAM 3300 was the first one, then we replaced it with an ECAM 23210.

I got tired of the monotony of making French press coffee out in our cabin, so I thought about buying a Rancilio set up, but I ended up just buying one of these from Delonghi. It has enough adjustments that I can squeeze out a pretty decent cup of espresso, it doesn't take much counter space at all (which is good because the cabin doesn't have any counter space) and the steam wand works fine. However, my wife is the only one who drinks milk in her coffee, and she bought one of these for frothing milk after visiting friends and liking that better even than the superautomatic at home.

So I load the milk frother, warm up the espresso machine, do a little temp surfing trick I learned (run some steam, then let the machine cool back down to brewing temp) and make the espresso. By then the milk is done and I am coffee champ. The only fiddly parts of the EC680 are that the filter will pop out of the handle if you bang it on the trash to clean out the coffee grounds post brewing and there is an optimum tamping pressure that is lighter than you'd expect so practice makes perfect.

This is the machine I'd really like, but I think a machine like this needs its own dedicated space to manage the water and coffee grounds that inevitably get all over the frickin' place.

[dashDustin]

i bought a used Gaggia Classic for $120 2yrs ago. This machine is capable of pulling god shots. What it, or maybe I, can't do is get a good steamed milk. I've tried and tried and tried. It's so frustrating. Word on the street is that replacing the steam wand with a Rancilio unit improves the output dramatically. I prefer straight espresso, anyway, so it doesn't much matter to me.

Got a Baratza Preciso grinder for Christmas...using that, it becomes apparent that grind quality really is paramount.

[Dmoeny]

Bought a used Olympia Cremina off the 'Bay when I was in a similar situation. 70s era. it's built like a tank, super simple (lever), no electronics. Complemented with an Iberital grinder for bean reduction duties, but lately have been using a Hario hand grinder with good results.

Makes great espresso and steams like a fiend. I replaced all seals and gaskets in mine after purchase, and was pleased that they're readily available from a seller in Idaho.

[Drew]

Our last Superautomatic lasted 8 years? A Delonghi. And it is still going actually (we gave it to friends who dragged it out to their cabin in the woods of Pennsylvania where it would not disturb anyone,) just that the belts and cogs that retract and extend the brew group within the machine sound like construction equipment so we replaced it with another Delonghi that is very very quiet. ESAM 3300 was the first one, then we replaced it with an ECAM 23210.

I got tired of the monotony of making French press coffee out in our cabin, so I thought about buying a Rancilio set up, but I ended up just buying one of these from Delonghi. It has enough adjustments that I can squeeze out a pretty decent cup of espresso, it doesn't take much counter space at all (which is good because the cabin doesn't have any counter space) and the steam wand works fine. However, my wife is the only one who drinks milk in her coffee, and she bought one of these for frothing milk after visiting friends and liking that better even than the superautomatic at home.

So I load the milk frother, warm up the espresso machine, do a little temp surfing trick I learned (run some steam, then let the machine cool back down to brewing temp) and make the espresso. By then the milk is done and I am coffee champ. The only fiddly parts of the EC680 are that the filter will pop out of the handle if you bang it on the trash to clean out the coffee grounds post brewing and there is an optimum tamping pressure that is lighter than you'd expect so practice makes perfect.

This is the machine I'd really like, but I think a machine like this needs its own dedicated space to manage the water and coffee grounds that inevitably get all over the frickin' place.

This is helpful - thank you.

What do you have to do for maintenance on the ECAM 23210 vs the EC680? On the surface, it seems like the semi-auto would be much less maintenance - it's basically a water heater and water pump, rather than a full superauto system... but then again, I've never had either! If ECAM23210 is set-it-and-forget-it, that becomes an attractive option. But I go read various forums/threads/blogs/etc about superautos, and people talk about temp surfing, installing resistors and potentiometers, op-amps, flux capacitors, cleaning it weekly, blah blah blah.... I want simple. I don't mind running vinegar/water/whatever through it once every few weeks, but if I have to spend $30 on cleaning solutions and two hours to clean it every two weeks, it loses appeal pretty quickly. Get me drift? How would you compare maintenance of the two systems?

[Drew]

i bought a used Gaggia Classic for $120 2yrs ago. This machine is capable of pulling god shots. What it, or maybe I, can't do is get a good steamed milk. I've tried and tried and tried. It's so frustrating. Word on the street is that replacing the steam wand with a Rancilio unit improves the output dramatically. I prefer straight espresso, anyway, so it doesn't much matter to me.

Got a Baratza Preciso grinder for Christmas...using that, it becomes apparent that grind quality really is paramount.

Bought a used Olympia Cremina off the 'Bay when I was in a similar situation. 70s era. it's built like a tank, super simple (lever), no electronics. Complemented with an Iberital grinder for bean reduction duties, but lately have been using a Hario hand grinder with good results.

Makes great espresso and steams like a fiend. I replaced all seals and gaskets in mine after purchase, and was pleased that they're readily available from a seller in Idaho.

I had not considered used. I supposed there probably is a decent used market for these, since they aren't cheap. I will check that out, thanks!

[Ras72]

I bought this lovely machine 4 years ago and its still going strong.

Attachment 98908

Believe it or not, it was subject in my recent divorce 'contract'. I mean, the kids weren't an issue...

When I get back on my feet (and wheels), I'll have another in my kitchen.

[j44ke]

Superautomatics like religious devotion to cleaning. When the clean-me light starts blinking, get out the prescribed descaler and follow the routine as laid out in the instructions. The used grounds go into a basket usually associated with the drip tray under the spout, so every so many coffees you slide the whole assembly out and dump it. Periodically you take out the brew group and clean that off. In the case of our new machine, you remove the water tank just like you do when you put more water in the machine, and then remove the brew group which contains the tamper and filter that make the espresso. Easy peasy.

On our previous superautomatic, I did a couple disassemblies to repair the water pump, several hoses, the steam wand and the valve that shunts excess water into the drip tray after the brewing has completed. Sounds rough but that was also easy peasy. Delonghi has great parts support including clearly marked diagrams, so home repairs are no big deal. And there is a guy in Philly who is supposed to be a magician with machines if you want to send yours out.

The difference with the little 680 is that almost every part of the business is outside the machine. Water is in the back, pump and boiler are inside and brewing/coffee are in the front. Because there is no brew group automation, if the pump or the boiler goes, they should be simple to replace. And Delonghi sells the parts.

So I'd say from simplicity's perspective, the 680 is pretty simple, cheap, and with good support. From the coffee perspective, the superautomatic may make better espresso, and if you are in a coma until you've had coffee, it offers a very easy delivery system. Perhaps the coffee tastes better because it also has a good grinder built in? The last trip to the coffee shop I mentioned the 680 to the owner and he said ah let me change the grind (I've been getting them to grind it for me.) I just had my first espresso with his adjusted grind and I must say that it is completely different - much better, more robust with some nice aftertastes. So as above, if your coffee is blah, check your grind.

[VTMike]

I tried to go with the Super-Auto after developing a taste for one in a home-exchange that we did. We went with a fairly high-end Jura Capressa. It failed fairly quickly.
Our take-away was that the complexity of doing everything in one machine made it more prone to failure.
We ended up going with a very nice E61 lever-action machine (Faema Carisma) and a Compak Grinder. I've had 2 minor hiccups with the espresso machine, both easily rectified (one was a fuse and the second was a crack in the water reservoir).
My advice is to find a shop that gives you some level of confidence, explain what your goals are, and buy what they recommend.
I shopped a number of the online options before landing at Chris Coffee out of Albany, NY and for some reason, they struck a chord with me. They've been superb in post-sale service and I hope for many more years of splendid service.

[j44ke]

Jura machines seem either to inspire religious devotion or the opposite. Our local kitchen supply shop is now carrying Jura, and it seems the decision by ownership has not been embraced by staff. They are very honest about what works and what doesn't, which is why we shop there, and they were largely silent on the Jura machines, preferring to show us a Breville. Jura has a top level reputation and is just shy of say a fancy built-in machine in kitchen bling factor (very important in corporate class NYC which is very different from coffee culture) but something is up. Not sure what.

[j44ke]

Nice stuff at Chris Coffee!